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Remember when young people used to date? Whatever happened to that?
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 3/16/2014 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 03/17/2014 2:43:57 AM PDT by markomalley

A radio listener recent wrote me about an interview I did on EWTN Radio with Barbara McGuigan. I mentioned that I had been doing a teaching on dating and modesty at a Theology on Tap Session. At that session I charged the men not to leave that night until they had asked a woman out on a date.

This intrigued the listener who wanted me to expand on this just a bit and what if anything she could do to get the twenty-somes in her family (both male and female) to start dating again. Here is something of the response I penned:

Yes I suppose it was on EWTN Radio’s Open Line show on Valentine’s Day that you heard me. As for what to say, it is difficult. The culture of course is dismal today when it comes to meeting something and something we used to call “dating.”

I was telling the young people, at that theology on tap meeting that, back when I was in high school and college, we used to do something called “dating”.

This strange and currently lesser known behavior involved a young man picking up the phone, or perhaps asking a girl in person, to go I’m something known as a date. This involved an actual activity such as the two of them having dinner together, or going to a movie together, or perhaps some other function, together (as in, just the two of them).

He would ask her and she would either agree to go out with him, or not. If she did, he would actually get into his car, and go to her house, and ring the doorbell. He might even meet her parents if she still lived at home. Then he would actually take her somewhere, such as to dinner, and he would spend money, his own money, on her. He was then supposed to bring her back to her own home at a reasonable time. Perhaps if it went well, she might give him a quick kiss, and agree to see him again.

Of course, I say a lot of this and jest, but what makes it strangely funny is that, although most young people of heard of the dating I’m describing, many seldom experience it with any real frequency. Back when I was in High School and College, the goal was to have a date every Friday or Saturday. Frankly very little was on T.V. Friday nights, since it was presumed that most young people would be “out on dates.”

We are living in a very strange world. At any rate, the first thing I think we can do is tell funny stories like these. When I do so, I hope to tweak the young men into some change of behavior where, instead of just hoping to see certain women at group functions they actually seek to court a particular woman, and even more, search for a wife.

As a priest in Washington DC, I talk with a lot of young women and am shocked that so many of these very beautiful women are seldom asked out by men. It’s just crazy! What’s wrong with young men? If I were still young and dating I’d be asking them out!

Some folks blame pornography and surmise that many men prefer fantasy to real women. Others blame the breakdown of the Church and family that used to help facilitate meeting and dating through dances and other socials. Others blame the hook-up scene (hooking-up is NOT dating) wherein men and women gather more in groups, arriving independently and “hooking up” with whoever. Promiscuity also devastates marriage, since there is very little incentive for men to commit to marriage when they get one of its central motivators (sex) for free. And if marriage isn’t a real priority, why court a woman. And is marriage and courting are unnecessary why date?

Perhaps you can state other reasons. I don’t want to be unfair to men. These are complicated issues. But traditionally it was men who took the initiative and most traditional Catholic girls still feel like that is how it should be.

But frankly, I also have to tell a lot of young women today that, like it or not, they’re going to have to take some initiative. For example, if they see a young man who they would like to ask them out, perhaps they can go right up to him and say, “It’s alright to ask me out.” or, “Ask me out you fool.” Or, “when are you going to get around to asking me to dance?”

Back when I was in school, I had several young women who wanted to signal me that they were interested. They would often send words through one of their friends who would say something like, “She likes you, ask her out.” And in many cases, I would oblige!

My college sweetheart got things started with me that way. I was really surprised she wanted to go out with me, she was so very very pretty, I didn’t think she’d be interested in an ordinary guy like me. I also figured she probably had lots of other suitors. So this was important information for me that she was interested, and I acted on it immediately. I practically ran up to her and asked her out.

I am interested in your thoughts, especially if you’re a young adult. What’s going on here? Ultimately I think its pretty serious since it is tied in with the cultural demise of marriage and also the rise of promiscuity. Help me, nearing “codger” status, to understand the causes, and also venture some solutions.

TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: courting; date; dates; dating; goingout; msgrcharlespope; singles; theologyontap
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1 posted on 03/17/2014 2:43:57 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: Biggirl; ConorMacNessa; Heart-Rest; Mercat; Mrs. Don-o; Nervous Tick; Rich21IE; RoadGumby; ...

Msgr Pope ping

2 posted on 03/17/2014 2:44:19 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Parents stopped parenting and became the kids’ friends instead.

3 posted on 03/17/2014 2:47:36 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: markomalley

I still “date” my wife after 38 years. At least that’s what we call it......

4 posted on 03/17/2014 3:13:06 AM PDT by bait4719
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To: markomalley

I recently learned that now kids have friends, or friends + benefits.

5 posted on 03/17/2014 3:25:00 AM PDT by soycd
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To: soycd

The article brings back memories of a better time in life than what we are seeing today. What happens now is two people meet in a bar someplace, have a few drinks, climb into bed and never see one another again. Not what I consider a long term relationship that started out with a simple “date”. We are NOT animals (although there are a lot who act like it) that senses a female “in heat”, chases her until he mates with her and then leaves to seek another.

Morals in this country have spiraled downward too far. It may never return.

6 posted on 03/17/2014 3:46:20 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: markomalley

The feminist movement is what happened.
They told us these ideas of courtship were relics of an oppressive chauvinist era. Hooking up, abortion, venereal disease and single motherhood are so much better.

7 posted on 03/17/2014 3:50:48 AM PDT by outofsalt (If history teaches us anything it's that history rarely teaches us anything.)
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To: markomalley

Young people need immediate gratification. Nothing “takes time”. I meet a lot of young couples (I’m a Realtor) that have met through etc. There they can meet the “perfect mate” and then “hook up”.

8 posted on 03/17/2014 4:00:21 AM PDT by albie
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To: outofsalt

Nobody is interested in fostering relationships and there is a dismissive and avoidant mindset amongst most young women. You have to constantly prove your intrinsic value constantly, and are treated as if you are easioy replacable. The level of distrust for the sake of distrust is... the “suspicion” is overwhelming.

It make you just want to throw up your hands and not bother with the whole process.

I know I offer a great deal in terms of a traditional dating relationship... I have been told outright how trustworthy and reliable I am... attentive, kind, loving... but when it comes down to the crux of the biscuit, women don’t really appreciate that... they have their own unrealistic fantasies.

9 posted on 03/17/2014 4:08:38 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: albie

It’s nothing other than catalog shopping.

10 posted on 03/17/2014 4:11:26 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: Rodamala

If you’re the taller fellow on your about page, I think I’ve discovered the mystery to your dating problems.

11 posted on 03/17/2014 4:18:44 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Rodamala
Nobody is interested in fostering relationships and there is a dismissive and avoidant mindset amongst most young women. You have to constantly prove your intrinsic value constantly, and are treated as if you are easioy replacable. The level of distrust for the sake of distrust is... the “suspicion” is overwhelming.

When they get older and can't get away with that kind of BS anymore the tears will start flowing and will be oh so unfair that same-age men are looking for younger women or going overseas to find brides.

12 posted on 03/17/2014 4:20:57 AM PDT by ClaytonP
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To: outofsalt

Indeed, funny that. My last attempt at dating was the girl distracted by other guys around and walking off to some other dude to play games checking if if was going to follow her like a puppy dog. Also I have been asked by girls but only to have plans changed on me the last minute.... followed by blue moon 2 am booty calls waking me up in the night. After that they complain they cannot find a guy trusting them or playing counter games.

Yeah. That is the cheap “I get it for free” culture these days. People will get what they pay for.

13 posted on 03/17/2014 4:23:05 AM PDT by lavaroise (A well regulated gun being necessary to the state, the rights of the militia shall not be infringed)
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To: 9YearLurker

No... I am the guy with the bionic arm... they call me “just a cripple”.

14 posted on 03/17/2014 4:23:54 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: outofsalt

Considering the state of divorce and family law why would a young man really want to get married?

Its a stacked deck.

15 posted on 03/17/2014 4:29:05 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: markomalley

Dating is hard and expensive. Today women are easy and cheap. Why buy the cow etc.

16 posted on 03/17/2014 4:31:58 AM PDT by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: driftdiver

“Considering the state of divorce and family law why would a young man really want to get married?”

Considering the fact that today’s men are either metrosexual wimps or emotionally abusive, why would a young woman really want to get married?”

17 posted on 03/17/2014 4:35:25 AM PDT by MayflowerMadam
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To: markomalley

It’s all in the teleology.

Young ladies have power that they don’t realize they have.

My older son is in college. Most people don’t “date” regularly and few people form relationships oriented toward marriage. There are some folks who are “in a relationship,” which mostly means that they have sex exclusively with each other, but not with any great long-term commitment.

Yet, it seems, some marriages do result from some of these relationships over time. Many young folks DO want to find husbands and wives, and DO want to marry, but the social conventions under which they labor frustrate their secret desires.

My son, one of a small set of Rigid, un-Frankian, Judgmental, Morally-Stern, Antequarianly-Chaste Catholics on campus, has had no lack of pretty, sweet, interesting, intelligent young women to date since arriving on campus a year and a half ago. And the dates are old-fashioned dates. An afternoon at the museum. Dinner at the club. A movie. A Catholic social event. A school dance. He’s also engaged in “group dates” from which he’s identified young ladies wishing to be dated one-on-one by him.

He also has been very firm about three rules, and very public, as well. He is interested in dating romantically to find someone to marry. She must be (or become) a Catholic. No sex before marriage.

Although I don’t think anyone openly ridiculed him (he’s in a place that is surprisingly tolerant), I know that he raised many eyebrows.

He has had no lack of young ladies interested in having a more serious, exclusive dating relationship with him. In fact, his girlfriend last semester was a young girl brought up as an atheist who was willing to consider conversion in order to further the relationship toward marriage. Once he realized that her inability to accept the concept of Original Sin doomed the relationship, he broke up with her. But, even though they had a pretty deep emotional bond, because they’d never had sex, the break-up was sad, but reasoned, without much drama. The young lady agreed with his conclusion that although they both had very strong feelings for each other, their respective worldviews were just too different to enable them to form a happy, permanent relationship.

Swiftly, he found himself sought out by another young lady to date seriously who had almost literally been “waiting in the wings.” She is a fallen-away Lutheran who is more than willing to come into communion with the Church in order to marry him. I suspect that they are much more compatible, and it would be unsurprising if they were to eventually marry. But if they don’t, my son is aware of other young ladies on campus who would love the opportunity to date him seriously.

Many, many intelligent young women are starving for good, decent men who want nothing more than to find someone to love them with all their hearts as Christ loves the Church, and to date in order to find the right person who will love them in that way. But few young men seem ready to emulate my son’s model.

His young gentlemen friends are astonished that it’s as if the young ladies line up to date him, with the goal of determining whether or not marriage to him is a realistic prospect.

My son’s a bright guy, has a sterling personality, is kind and generous (but also has a biting wit), is a good, honest, decent, loyal friend, is pretty good looking, and hard-working. But on his campus, there are plenty of smarter, handsomer, stronger, brilliant, hardworking young gentlemen of good character, too.

But they are merely taking their cue from the ladies, most of whom give no overt signals that this is what they want from their male prospects. When my son went to college, he was pretty firm about how he was going to conduct himself. But he told us that he despaired of finding anyone who wanted to date seriously, take the time to form a deep relationships, take delight in each others’ personality, who wanted to explore the possibility of marriage, who would understand the importance of sharing religious faith and belief, and who would be willing to wait for marriage. The young ladies weren’t giving any signals that they were receptive to such overtures, that they would like to date, rather than just all go out in groups, or keep it all “just friends,” or engage in casual sex. Even the girls in the Catholic Student Association didn’t seem to engage in the flirting and behaviors that encourage the gentlemen to ask them out on real dates.

However, knowing upfront my son’s intentions, absolutely not one young lady has turned him down for an initial date. A couple ladies have had previous engagements for specific events to which he’d asked them, but they made quite clear to him that they would like to be asked out again by him for a more mutually-convenient time. “I’m not interested,” hasn’t been in the lexicon of any young lady he’s asked out.

And among his gentlemen friends, many wish they would attract the ladies thusly, as many are secretly marriage-minded, too. But they’re trapped within social conventions which are sub-optimal and lead to messy, damaging relationships that hurt everyone all around. Or no relationship at all.

When one denies the purpose of things, one frustrates the means as well as their end.

18 posted on 03/17/2014 4:37:38 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: MayflowerMadam; Brooklyn Attitude; driftdiver

Why get married?

Because the bible says, regarding those who are the object of our passion, “it is better to marry.”

19 posted on 03/17/2014 4:43:47 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: outofsalt
Hooking up, abortion, venereal disease and single motherhood are so much better.

For the "Feminists" is surely is as it destroys men and fatherhood and replaces it with governments becoming the Sugar Daddy and running their lives in exchange for scraps of money.

20 posted on 03/17/2014 4:50:22 AM PDT by OldMissileer
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