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SERIOUS QUESTION: DO CATHOLICS REALLY BELIEVE THIS ABOUT MARY??
St Charles Barromeo Catholic Church ^ | 03-19-14 | ealgeone

Posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH SECOND EDITION

PART ONE THE PROFESSION OF FAITH SECTION TWO THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9 "I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH"

Paragraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church

963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503


TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: anticatholicism; bigots; catholicchurch; catholicmary; hyperdulia; idolatry; mariolatry; mary; pagan
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I'm asking a serious question to my Catholic brothers and sisters.....

Is this the official teaching on Mary??

I. MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH

Wholly united with her Son . . .

964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion:

Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505

965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507

. . . also in her Assumption

966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians:

In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509

. . . she is our Mother in the order of grace

967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)510 of the Church.

968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512

970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514

* II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN

971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517

III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH

972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother.

In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.519

IN BRIEF

973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body.

974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body.

975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15).

1 posted on 03/19/2014 8:19:20 PM PDT by ealgeone
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To: ealgeone

Sad but many would go even further.


2 posted on 03/19/2014 8:22:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ealgeone

Just wondering do you believe it? Why do you ask?


3 posted on 03/19/2014 8:22:37 PM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: ealgeone

IBAPP (in before a popcorn post)


4 posted on 03/19/2014 8:22:59 PM PDT by bramps (Go West America!)
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To: ealgeone
I guess ,have not read the new catechism.Pray the rosary and meditate on the mysteries.It helped me.
5 posted on 03/19/2014 8:26:12 PM PDT by fatima (Free Hugs Today :))
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To: editor-surveyor

Just curious, but if you’re not Catholic what does it matter to you what Catholics believe? Practice your faith and be happy in it.


6 posted on 03/19/2014 8:28:18 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: ealgeone

I fully believe all that the Church has declared to be true regarding Mary and her role in the salvation of mankind which began when she said yes to God’s will and became the mother of the Word Incarnate and continues to this day.


7 posted on 03/19/2014 8:29:24 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: Mastador1

The essence of their religion is feeling superior to believers in other religions.


8 posted on 03/19/2014 8:30:45 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: Mastador1

It doesn’t matter to you that an entire church is headed into a dead end eternity?
.


9 posted on 03/19/2014 8:32:37 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ealgeone

Queen of Heaven and Earth.


10 posted on 03/19/2014 8:33:22 PM PDT by steve86 (to the nearest on-shore cell tower or repeater).)
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To: ealgeone
Officially it is whatever they say it is. Realistically, there is a wide difference of opinion about Mary-worship in the RCC. Many consider what they call "Mary people" to be little better than a cult within the church. Certainly Mary is universally revered, as she should be, but the emphasis some put on Mariology is controversial.

So, whats your point?

11 posted on 03/19/2014 8:33:31 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: hinckley buzzard

If this is official church teaching not based on scripture it borders if not crosses into worshipping false gods. It also introduces some non biblical concepts.


13 posted on 03/19/2014 8:43:03 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

Catholics believe Jesus is unapproachable, so they go to his mother to intercede and gain sway with the Son of God. Mary, though a dead woman and incapable of hearing prayer, is an intercessor for Catholics. Sadly, that is how their system works.


14 posted on 03/19/2014 8:43:53 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: Boanarges
Catholics believe Jesus is unapproachable, so they go to his mother to intercede and gain sway with the Son of God.

Not exactly -- we encounter Him in of His very Self at every Mass -- Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity.

15 posted on 03/19/2014 8:45:16 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Williams

I do not believe it.

Was curious if this was believed by all Catholics when so much of this is not in the Bible.

Not sure what this is based on other than man’s ideas.... Not God.


16 posted on 03/19/2014 8:45:20 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

Yes. It is an essential part of Christianity.


17 posted on 03/19/2014 8:45:50 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Revolting cat!
The essence of their religion is feeling superior to believers in other religions.

The essence of our faith is JESUS CHRIST.

18 posted on 03/19/2014 8:46:14 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: steve86

Titles found nowhere in the Bible for Mary.


19 posted on 03/19/2014 8:46:29 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, border)
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To: ealgeone

Jesus founded a faith with actual people — His apostles and disciples. Much of the book came years later.


20 posted on 03/19/2014 8:47:15 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Pyro7480

So where did I miss the mark on Mary worship?


21 posted on 03/19/2014 8:47:16 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: editor-surveyor
It doesn’t matter to you that an entire church is headed into a dead end eternity?

Well see that's the thing I put my faith in God not a Church, I was raised Catholic but I don't really go anymore. I don't have a problem with anyone's religion as long as they follow the one important rule "don't push it on me", I will follow God as I see fit for me and everyone else may do the same.

22 posted on 03/19/2014 8:47:44 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Boanarges

Starting with your use of the word “unapproachable.” If He is so unapproachable, then why do Catholic believe that we consume His very Flesh and Blood at every Mass?


23 posted on 03/19/2014 8:50:12 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: steve86; eagle1
>> “Queen of Heaven and Earth.” <<

Here is what Yehova has to say about that:

Jeremiah 7:

16] Therefore pray not thou for this people, neither lift up cry nor prayer for them, neither make intercession to me: for I will not hear thee.
[17] Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
[18] The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
[19] Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
[20] Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, mine anger and my fury shall be poured out upon this place, upon man, and upon beast, and upon the trees of the field, and upon the fruit of the ground; and it shall burn, and shall not be quenched.

Jeremiah 44:

[15] Then all the men which knew that their wives had burned incense unto other gods, and all the women that stood by, a great multitude, even all the people that dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying,
[16] As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee.
[17] But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
[18] But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
[19] And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
[20] Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
[21] The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
[22] So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at this day.
[23] Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes, nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.
[24] Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the LORD, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:
[25] Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
[26] Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth.

24 posted on 03/19/2014 8:51:07 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
It doesn’t matter to you that an entire church is headed into a dead end eternity?

Source?

25 posted on 03/19/2014 8:52:21 PM PDT by fellowpatriot
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To: editor-surveyor

How’s it going?


26 posted on 03/19/2014 8:52:28 PM PDT by steve86 (to the nearest on-shore cell tower or repeater).)
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To: Pyro7480

>> “then why do Catholic believe that we consume His very Flesh and Blood at every Mass?” <<

.
Because you deny the word of Yehova completely.
.


27 posted on 03/19/2014 8:53:23 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: steve86

Read Matthew 7:23

That is how you will be going.


28 posted on 03/19/2014 8:54:27 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Pyro7480

You consume a wafer, nothing more, nothing less.


29 posted on 03/19/2014 8:54:41 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: fellowpatriot

See post 24


30 posted on 03/19/2014 8:55:07 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ealgeone
I'm not a Catholic, just a lo-info non-denominational, but I believe what you posted.

From recent study, what I've read in the messages in True Life In God, the witnessed events throughout history, especially now, in our time, I think the truth goes beyond what you posted.

I never would have thought that, and rarely about the Virgin Mary beyond her Son, and then only at Christmas, but I've had a change of heart and thought about a lot of things.

31 posted on 03/19/2014 8:56:29 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: ealgeone

Seems fine to me and I’m not Catholic.

My only gripe is with Islam.


32 posted on 03/19/2014 8:59:07 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: Boanarges
Mary, though a dead woman and incapable of hearing prayer, is an intercessor for Catholics. Sadly, that is how their system works.

Do people not have souls? If I am able to pray for you, or you for me, or me for the soul of my dead brother - then can not the soul of the unstained Mother of Christ also be influenced by our prayers?

33 posted on 03/19/2014 8:59:08 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: Boanarges
You consume a wafer, nothing more, nothing less.

To use another poster's term above, that is "dead end" theology.

"...Well, toward morning the conversation turned on the Eucharist, which I, being the Catholic, was obviously supposed to defend. Mrs. Broadwater said when she was a child and received the Host, she thought of it as the Holy Ghost, He being the "most portable" person of the Trinity; now she thought of it as a symbol and implied that it was a pretty good one. I then said, in a very shaky voice, "Well, if it's a symbol, to hell with it." That was all the defense I was capable of but I realize now that this is all I will ever be able to say about it, outside of a story, except that it is the center of existence for me; all the rest is expendable." -Flannery O'Connor

34 posted on 03/19/2014 9:01:09 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: GBA

Do you understand “strong delusion?”

Do you understand Satan’s signs and wonders?

If you want to believe it he will let you believe it to your end.
.


35 posted on 03/19/2014 9:01:24 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Boanarges

That is not my understanding of their adoration for Mary.

They revere her as the mother of Jesus. I do as well but, we all cry out to God and ask in the name of Jesus, His will be done.


36 posted on 03/19/2014 9:02:08 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: PGR88

No.

And if by “unstained” you mean sinless, you are in grave error. Mary needed a saviour just as much as you and me.


37 posted on 03/19/2014 9:02:34 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: Pyro7480

Flannery O’Connor is a lost soul.
.


38 posted on 03/19/2014 9:02:55 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: ealgeone

Don’t you have the Gospel of Luke in your Bible?

Read Luke 1:26 - to the end of the chapter, and read it carefully. Then go on to the story of the Visitation and Elizabeth calling Mary, the Mother of my Lord. (God)


39 posted on 03/19/2014 9:05:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Vendome

Seeking intercession is beyond Adoration.


40 posted on 03/19/2014 9:05:53 PM PDT by Boanarges
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To: PGR88

>> “ then can not the soul of the unstained Mother of Christ also be influenced by our prayers?” <<

.
Find it in the scriptures.

Start with Jeremiah 7


41 posted on 03/19/2014 9:06:16 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor
Yes.

Yes, I think so.

Not sure I follow you on the last question, but I think you're correct in the general sense of your question.

42 posted on 03/19/2014 9:06:42 PM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: ealgeone; wideawake; markomalley; Salvation; NYer
I'm retiring for the evening and do not expect to have the opportunity to reply. Nevertheless, I thought I would post from https://www.osv.com/OSVNewsweekly/Article/TabId/535/ArtMID/13567/ArticleID/6199/Theotokos.aspx so it could be before the forum.

Mary is Jesus’ mother. She bore Him. She is not the mother of Christ’s humanity. A mother gives birth to an individual person, not a soul, or body, or abstract concept like human nature or humanity. Mary gave birth to Someone with a unique identity: Jesus. Who is Jesus? He is God, the eternal Son. So Mary is Mother of God.

God is in me. But for me there always remains a distinction between God and me, regardless how close He might be, even if He is closer to me than my brain or heart. I am never God. I am not eternal. There was when I was not.

With Jesus the situation is decisively different. His existence did not begin with His earthly conception. Who Jesus is is eternal. One cannot distinguish between God in Him and He himself. “Jesus is the Eternal Son; He is God. So there is a strict identity between God-in-Jesus and Jesus himself. . .He is God the Eternal Son. The one who was born as a human baby, Jesus, was no other than the Eternal Son of the Father.”

Mary conceived as her son, the Eternal Son of God, who developed in her womb as a human being. After carrying Him to term, the Virgin Mary gave Him birth. She did not give birth to Jesus’ divinity. She is not the mother of the divine nature, but the mother of someone with the divine nature, someone who, as a human baby, needed to be nursed and carried, yet someone who holds the universe in existence.

The unique Son of God was begotten twice. He was born eternally of the Father before creation. Mary was not involved. He was also born in time, as the man Jesus. In this second birth, Mary played a major role. The Father’s role in Jesus' temporal birth was primary, yet Mary’s was indispensable. The same someone who was born eternally of the Father was born in Bethlehem to the Virgin Mary.

There is only one grammatical subject in Jesus, and that is God the Eternal Son. The Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed (A.D. 381) states: “We believe. . .in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all time. . .He. . .was made flesh by the Holy Spirit from the Virgin Mary, and became man. . . .”

The word “God” carries different meanings. It often signifies the Father. If we so understand the term, Mary is not the mother of God. Obviously, she is not the mother of the Eternal Father. He is her source and the source of all. She is not His source. The word “God” also refers to the Trinity. Clearly Mary is not the mother of the Trinity. “God,” likewise, signifies One who possesses the divine nature. Because it is possessed, “owned,” equally, though differently, by Father, Son and Holy Spirit, each Trinitarian Person is necessarily and equally God.

Since the Son of God is God and Mary carried Him as a human being in her womb, ultimately giving Him birth, she is the mother of God. She mothered Him in His acquired humanity. The Divine Son, eternal and without beginning, experienced an earthly beginning through Mary.

Mary is our mother by adoption. But she is the natural mother of God the Son. He is the fruit of her womb, Jesus.

43 posted on 03/19/2014 9:06:44 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: Boanarges

Catholics approach Jesus all the time. Every day when I receive Communion.

Where did you get the strange notion that Catholics are afraid to approach Jesus?


44 posted on 03/19/2014 9:09:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Boanarges

Do you understand transubstantiation?

trans = transfer

substantiation = substance.

The substance of bread and wine is changed into the Body and Blood of Christ as Jesus did at the Last Supper when he said, “This is my Body.” “This is my Blood.”


45 posted on 03/19/2014 9:12:34 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Boanarges

My understanding is that is not what they do and I had this conversation many times over the years with Catholics.


46 posted on 03/19/2014 9:12:48 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: editor-surveyor

And you know this how? Since when do you sit in the judgment seat of God?


47 posted on 03/19/2014 9:13:34 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: ealgeone
"Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."


48 posted on 03/19/2014 9:16:11 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: Pyro7480

I read the word of God, and believe it.
.


49 posted on 03/19/2014 9:18:18 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: editor-surveyor

And the word of God led you to the conclusion that O’Connor is definitively in hell?


50 posted on 03/19/2014 9:20:50 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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