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Greg Laurie on Why Bible Prophecy Makes No Mention of America (premillennial caucus)
Christian Post ^ | July 15, 2013 | Anugrah Kumar

Posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:21 AM PDT by xzins

Bible prophecy related to the end times mentions many nations, including Libya, Iran, Iraq Ethiopia, and possibly even China and Russia, but not the United States of America. In an article on his blog, Pastor Greg Laurie gives three plausible reasons for the nation's exclusion.

"Where is the United States? Why are we not in the last-days scenario?" asks Laurie, pastor of Harvest Church in Riverside, Calif.

One reason why the United States is not mentioned in Scripture is perhaps because the nation "might be devastated by a nuclear war," the pastor writes. "It is a horrible scenario and one that none of us would want to see, but we cannot rule it out as a possibility."

The threat remains despite the dissolution of the former Soviet Union, Laurie argues. "It could indeed be a rogue terrorist nation with nuclear capabilities, or even a terrorist group that could set off the dominoes falling onto each other. I hope this isn't the case, but we cannot rule it out."

Laurie is for a strong military for that reason. "We need to take seriously any foreign threats. But having said that, what about an internal collapse?"

A second possible reason could be that the U.S. might decline as a world power, Laurie says, quoting Proverbs 14:34, which reads, "Godliness makes a nation great, but sin is a disgrace to any people."

"As our country becomes more and more secular, systematically eliminating God and the Bible from our education system, courts, and the arts, we will begin to reap the inevitable results of sin. We will begin to rot from the inside," the pastor warns. "I think to some degree, we already have [seen that happen] as we have seen the breakdown of the family, rampant crime and so many other problems that have come from disobeying God."

Laurie points out that what once was freedom of religion seems to have now become freedom from religion. "We have succeeded in getting God out of our schools, out of our sporting events, out of our public places and out of our workplaces."

The nation needs to remember that the freedom we enjoy is built on the foundation of absolute truth, he says. "And when you remove that foundation, this freedom actually can turn into anarchy."

A third possibility could be that the U.S. will witness a revival, "which I find a lot more hopeful," Laurie goes on to say. "That is not to say a revival would eliminate us as a world power. But if our nation had a revival, it would affect us. Think about this. Let's say, for example, that one-fourth of all Americans are believers. This would mean that we have approximately 78 million true believers in our country today… When the Rapture of the church takes place, don't you think there would be an impact on the United States…?"

Laurie said we need to, therefore, pray for revival in our country today. "When I say that our nation needs God, I don't mean that we need whatever god everyone happens to believe in," he clarifies. "The only hope for America is when we turn back to the true and living God – the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God who gave us the Bible as the revelation of who he is, the God who loved us so much that he sent his own son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross in our place."


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: america; brokencaucus; endtimes; laurie; megachurch; pastor; prophecy
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1 posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:21 AM PDT by xzins
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To: All

3 Reasons provided by Laurie: At that time, America is:

1. Destroyed

2. Declined

3. Departed

I would add another one: it is mentioned and we don’t recognize it.


2 posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:41 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

Why should we be? Most of the world is not mentioned or included (except in very general terms) in prophecy.

Never make the mistake of believing you are more important than you are.


3 posted on 03/20/2014 8:03:40 AM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: RIghtwardHo

I agree about the negatives of self-importance, however, with a belief in the soon return of the Lord, it makes sense to ask the place of a world super-power in a huge war and terrible tyranny.


4 posted on 03/20/2014 8:06:15 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

Where do you think that might be?


5 posted on 03/20/2014 8:10:23 AM PDT by Buggman (returnofbenjamin.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: xzins

No the Bible doesn’t mention America..

But the important country has always been Israel..

Jerusalem is in Israel..

the Jews are “the apple of God’s eye”

the end time prophecies are centered around Israel..

we don’t need America..


6 posted on 03/20/2014 8:11:34 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Buggman

The point being that we don’t recognize it yet, I couldn’t say. However, the Lord says He doesn’t do anything without revealing it to His servants the prophets.

My sense is that every other world superpower has attracted His attention, as in ‘He sets up Kings and deposes them”. That would make me wonder about this Anglo/American system that has pretty well dominated the world the last 300 or so years.


7 posted on 03/20/2014 8:13:41 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

The populace of the United States is drawn from every people, but some believe prophetic references to the tribe of Manasseh refers to it. Also to an extent Ephraim, but that is thought to speak more to the English aspect of the nation.

The great city of prophecy that is destroyed and mourned from afar by the merchants of the world has been assumed by many to reference the US.

It didn’t exist at the time, it’s people are varied and many, and the land itself was little known, so any reference would of necessity have to be more symbolic and abstract.


8 posted on 03/20/2014 8:14:18 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Tennessee Nana

See #7.


9 posted on 03/20/2014 8:14:31 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

If Laurie spent a great deal more of his time contemplating Christology rather than Eschatology, he might be worth listening to. As it is, he isn’t. The center of his theology is not where it ought to be.


10 posted on 03/20/2014 8:15:20 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: xzins

The pride and arrogance of the American Evangelical is truly something to behold. Ah yes Amerika is sooo great that there must be some reason why we are not plastered all over scripture!

Face it, no matter what condition Amerika is in during that last little bit of history the focus is not on the world but on Israel and those nations that directly interact with her in those last days. We are insignificant in comparison and really are not all that important to Gods plan. It really is that simple.


11 posted on 03/20/2014 8:17:16 AM PDT by trapped_in_LA
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To: xzins

If America is not the great city Babylon described in Revelation 18, I would be very surprised.


12 posted on 03/20/2014 8:17:21 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (People should not be afraid of the government. Government should be afraid of the people)
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To: Belteshazzar

See the title line of this article


13 posted on 03/20/2014 8:18:04 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: trapped_in_LA

See #7


14 posted on 03/20/2014 8:18:52 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

I have seen that expressed before, and the arguments against it generally have to do with that city being identified in such a way that excludes America.


15 posted on 03/20/2014 8:22:08 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

I would say that it’s a good thing the US is not mentioned...

It means that the US is not one of the nations which rise up against Israel and gets it’s lights knocked out for it.


16 posted on 03/20/2014 8:24:05 AM PDT by Safrguns (PM me if you like to play Minecraft!)
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To: xzins

Because USA is not Israel.


17 posted on 03/20/2014 8:24:30 AM PDT by the_daug
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To: xzins

Well, the bottom line (in terms of the Bible) is — very simply — the USA is not relevant for those events described or is not involved in those particular described events.

The USA may simply evolve to an “isolationist position” after being way too involved in everything up to now. The USA May simply tell the rest of the world to “take care of yourself” because we’re going to take care ourselves!” There are a whole lot of people who want to see that, right now.

So, it doesn’t have to be “disaster”. It’s clear from the Bible that the USA is NOT involved in a clear and singular position. What the Bible does NOT say is the “why” of the USA not being involved in a clear and singularly identifiable way.

Anything we say about that is PURE SPECULATION.


18 posted on 03/20/2014 8:25:49 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Tennessee Nana

You are absolutely correct.


19 posted on 03/20/2014 8:26:22 AM PDT by hsmomx3
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To: Safrguns

I hope that’s correct. Sadly, though, it appears that Israel is becoming totally isolated and that the US is pulling away from its alliance with Israel.

This is the work of this administration primarily. There might have been others in the past that thought the same thing, but the politics of not supporting Israel was too painful for them to openly go there.


20 posted on 03/20/2014 8:27:26 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

Because USA is not Israel.


21 posted on 03/20/2014 8:27:32 AM PDT by the_daug
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To: xzins

I would add another one: it is mentioned and we don’t recognize it.


Yep.

Tarshish?

Check out the revelation excerpts here:

http://www.openbible.info/topics/tarshish

In revelation the ships are watching the “great city” burn and saying (I paraphrase), “now who is going to buy all our stuff?”.


22 posted on 03/20/2014 8:28:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Safrguns

Even if the USA is not clearly identifiable in a singular way (i.e., specifically and alone) — the Bible does say that the whole world is against Israel, and that would include the USA, at that time, even if it is not directly involved in the events of that region.


23 posted on 03/20/2014 8:28:12 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: Star Traveler
Anything we say about that is PURE SPECULATION.

I don't disagree with that. At the same time, I do think there's such a thing as biblical searching, and that that is a good thing. In the process, ideas come and go, and that, too, is a good thing.

24 posted on 03/20/2014 8:30:25 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker

It’s not ... As the Bible’s comparisons and descriptions for that “symbol” do not match up.


25 posted on 03/20/2014 8:30:27 AM PDT by Star Traveler (Remember to keep the Messiah of Israel in the One-World Government that we look forward to coming)
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To: trapped_in_LA

The pride and arrogance of the American Evangelical is truly something to behold.


Judge not, lest ye be judged.

I am one of thos American Evangelicals and I agree with the rest of your post.


26 posted on 03/20/2014 8:31:07 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: Star Traveler

>>> the Bible does say that the whole world is against Israel, and that would include the USA

True... but those references are during the tribulation period, and once the USA is void of Christians (rapture), that would not surprise me a bit.

Once Jesus removes His bride from the earth, I would imagine that the USA is toast.


27 posted on 03/20/2014 8:33:13 AM PDT by Safrguns (PM me if you like to play Minecraft!)
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To: Star Traveler

We are in such poor financial shape that it’s very possible that we fracture into more than one nation, have parts of us conquered in our weakness, and see a drastic population decline.

By the time everything hits, we essentially could be taken off the stage and don’t play a serious part in things. We might just be supporting cast at that point.

Also, the Western hemisphere basically isn’t mentioned, not just the US. Nor is most of Africa.


28 posted on 03/20/2014 8:33:33 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead...)
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To: Tennessee Nana

I agree. This isn’t about us. But don’t forget what GOD has promised to those who turn their backs on his chosen people.

It rains on everybody, but his chosen people are going to suffer greater tribulation than us before the Messiah returns as the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Keep your eyes on Jerusalem. Do not be deceived by all the false prophets and their doctrines. Pray for HIS quick return and the time of tribulation be shortened.


29 posted on 03/20/2014 8:36:12 AM PDT by Texicanus (Texas, it's a whole 'nother country.)
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To: xzins
One reason why the United States is not mentioned in Scripture is perhaps because the nation "might be devastated by a nuclear war,"

Nuclear is not magic; there are worse things. In fact America is currently being devastated by something far worse:


30 posted on 03/20/2014 8:47:12 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: trapped_in_LA; xzins
Face it, no matter what condition Amerika is in during that last little bit of history the focus is not on the world but on Israel and those nations that directly interact with her in those last days. We are insignificant in comparison and really are not all that important to Gods plan. It really is that simple.

That is only true if you are limiting your definition of "Israel" to the geographic, material definition, rather than the understanding of "Israel" meaning God's chosen people. Christians are "grafted on" to those Jews who, hearing the gospels, formed the early church (Romans 11). America* having been founded on Christian principles, is a part of the metaphysical meaning of "Israel" (*in these days, "America" is the majority in this nation who remain Christian and constitutionally "Under God", yet are increasingly at the mercy of the tyrannical secular/fascist state.)


...Israel and those nations that directly interact with her in those last days.

In the world described in apocryphal passages, the "prince of the powers of the air" is active in the end times. In today's world of instant global mass communications, every nation directly interacts with every other.

31 posted on 03/20/2014 8:50:30 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (The less a man knows, the more certain he is that he knows it all.)
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To: trapped_in_LA

Amerika huh?


32 posted on 03/20/2014 8:51:15 AM PDT by ifinnegan
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To: the_daug
Because USA is not Israel.

See post 31.

33 posted on 03/20/2014 8:52:07 AM PDT by Albion Wilde (The less a man knows, the more certain he is that he knows it all.)
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To: xzins
How many Russian Orthodox believe they will be involved in the destruction of Israel??? How many Catholics believe they are of the whore of Rev. 17???

It's interesting to me that modern prophecy seems to be an American Evangelical/Fundamentalist thing...

Some people point to the beasts in Daniel 7 and liken the leopard to the U.S...The reason being the leopard is made up of black spots, a white belly, and brown hair on it's back...Far fetched??? Maybe...

There are a lot of things in the scripture that 'could' point to the U.S.

34 posted on 03/20/2014 8:54:53 AM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: cuban leaf

“Judge not, lest ye be judged.”

Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! 1 Corinthians 6:3

Jesus was NOT teaching that we should not judge but that we should make sure that our judgments were righteous and not motivated by self interests. So please don’t use this tired old saw to try and shut people down as it is very clearly unscriptural and often used as a tool by those on the wide road to destruction to stop up the mouths of them warnings them of where they are headed.


35 posted on 03/20/2014 9:04:23 AM PDT by trapped_in_LA
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To: ifinnegan

“Amerika huh?”

Yep look around, we are now far more socialist a society than even Russia is today.


36 posted on 03/20/2014 9:06:16 AM PDT by trapped_in_LA
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To: xzins

Than why have SDA’s been correct on where America is going?


37 posted on 03/20/2014 9:08:42 AM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: trapped_in_LA

I agree with what you said. The problem is tht it is important to not fall into the trap liberals so enjoy - judging people as a group by the acts of a few. For me, each man stands on his own. Now, if he belongs to an OFFICIAL group with a spelled out belief system, say that of Islam, that is different. But evangelicals come in all flavors, as do most Christians.

I disagree with many of my evangelical brothers on the rapture as well as the eternal fate of non-believers, but I call myself an evangelical because I’m a firm believer in enacting the great commission on a daily basis.


38 posted on 03/20/2014 9:09:54 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: xzins

Thank you, I did note it. It changes nothing.


39 posted on 03/20/2014 9:10:29 AM PDT by Belteshazzar (We are not justified by our works but by faith - De Jacob et vita beata 2 +Ambrose of Milan)
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To: Jonty30

What is an SDA?


40 posted on 03/20/2014 9:11:50 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Albion Wilde

“Christians are “grafted on” to those Jews who, hearing the gospels, formed the early church (Romans 11). America* having been founded on Christian principles, is a part of the metaphysical meaning of “Israel” (*in these days, “America” is the majority in this nation who remain Christian and constitutionally “Under God”, yet are increasingly at the mercy of the tyrannical secular/fascist state.)”

Replacement theology is about as unscriptural as it gets. There is a very clear distinction between the promises of the God to Israel and those to the church and if you can’t tell that difference then you are either ignorant of scripture or intentionally twisting scripture to meet your preconceived notions of what you feel “should be” rather than what God’s word is actually saying.


41 posted on 03/20/2014 9:12:18 AM PDT by trapped_in_LA
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To: xzins

Seventh-Day Adventist


42 posted on 03/20/2014 9:12:33 AM PDT by hoagy62 ("Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered..."-Thomas Paine. 1776)
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To: hoagy62

Where did they say America is going?


43 posted on 03/20/2014 9:14:23 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
If America is not the great city Babylon described in Revelation 18, I would be very surprised.

Since it is a great city, why would it be America?

I would be surprised if Babylon in Revelation 17-18 is not ... Babylon.

44 posted on 03/20/2014 9:14:44 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: xzins

I believe I’ve read that St. Paul, the apostle, declared “I am determined to know among you nothing save Christ, and Him crucified,” although I am unable to cite chapter and verse.


45 posted on 03/20/2014 9:16:58 AM PDT by Elsiejay (in)
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To: Star Traveler

And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

I wonder who this refers to? It sure wont be the USA under oboma but maybe some remnant left over after the coming wars?


46 posted on 03/20/2014 9:17:38 AM PDT by winodog
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To: Belteshazzar
If Laurie spent a great deal more of his time contemplating Christology rather than Eschatology, he might be worth listening to. As it is, he isn’t. The center of his theology is not where it ought to be.

Nonsense. I've been reading Greg Laurie for years as well as listening to his sermons. The vast majority of his work is about living in Christ, not eschatology. What you wrote is mendacious and you should be ashamed.


47 posted on 03/20/2014 9:20:43 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: trapped_in_LA

People who use the term Amerika never have the US interests at heart.

New Left pioneered using that term here. People like Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayres and Occupy people love that term.

It’s used only as a term of derision.


48 posted on 03/20/2014 9:21:19 AM PDT by ifinnegan
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To: Elsiejay

However, it’s clear in 2 Thessalonians that the Apostle Paul had a Christian Education program that included eschatology.

In fact, it makes sense: Our salvation is proven by Jesus resurrection. Jesus’ resurrection means Jesus is still alive. Since He’s alive, He can return. Jesus said he’d return.


49 posted on 03/20/2014 9:21:30 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: cuban leaf

I may have painted American Evangelicals with a fairly broad brush but in my judgement it is a well deserved broad brush. The belief that America is somehow an exception and that its people are more righteous than the rest of the world is endemic in that community, its leaders and the books/tapes/movies that they produce. That speaks of arrogance and pride that no Christian should have, we are not citizens of this world but of heaven so don’t tie your sense of belonging to any one country and don’t think that because you live here that it will not be brought low. Amerika is now the source of and amazing amount of evil that is being spread around the world, everything from abortion to Sodomy is being aggressively promoted by Amerika and if you don’t think that God won’t judge that then you don’t really believe in a righteous God.


50 posted on 03/20/2014 9:23:21 AM PDT by trapped_in_LA
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