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Three Ways Catholic Tradition Bolstered My Protestant Faith
Her-menutics ^ | March 21, 2014 | Andrea Palpant Dilley

Posted on 03/22/2014 6:51:11 PM PDT by ebb tide

These years later, I'm still not a Catholic. I'm a high church evangelical Protestant. However, I borrow gratefully from the Mother Church. Insofar as the weaknesses of Catholicism were "corrected" by the Protestant Reformation, here's how Catholicism corrects the weaknesses of my Protestant faith: Sacramental worship I attend an evangelical church in the Anglican/Episcopal tradition.

(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 03/22/2014 6:51:11 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide
Whenever I see a brother or a sister trying to follow Jesus, I say, "Amen".

Remember the words of the Lord before you all start throwing stones.

2 posted on 03/22/2014 6:54:51 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. H)
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To: ebb tide
Megachurch pastor stuns congregation by announcing he’s converting to Catholicism[Ulf Ekman]
Ulf Ekman Converts to Roman Catholicism

Did this person convert or not?

3 posted on 03/22/2014 6:58:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Apparently, Pastor Ekman did, but the writer of the article, Andrea Dilley, did not, though she does laud the positive influences she believes she has received from the Roman Catholic church. (She is Anglican/Episcopal.)


4 posted on 03/22/2014 7:02:30 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting towards Mecca five times daily).)
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To: ebb tide

Interesting article. Genuine first-person testimony.

Observation: She does not seem to embrace the concept of “total depravity,” or, as it might be called today, “pervasive corruption of every part of our character and being by original sin.”

Total depravity does not mean we are as evil as we can be, but it does mean that no part of our being and character iscompletely free of the corruption of sin from the moment of conception.

Her “I’m not total garbage” statements sets up a false dichotomy. Reformed theology does not posit that we are total garbage. Christ redeemed His people — no one correctly posits that he died for “garbage.”

She appears to adopt a semi-pelagian position, which, though incorrect, does not, of course, necessarily invalidate her testimony of faith in Christ.


5 posted on 03/22/2014 7:09:48 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting towards Mecca five times daily).)
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To: ebb tide
Ulf Ekman, the pastor of a prominent megachurch in Sweden, recently announced his conversion to Catholicism. Some Protestants responded to the news with the kind of intrigue and betrayal we might expect when a man defects from his country. Others of us were left standing on the shore, wondering, Should I go, too? What's my religious heritage and where do I belong?

I don't think that she ever found Jesus...She is looking for a religion, a Church, not Christianity...

6 posted on 03/22/2014 7:34:44 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: man_in_tx

I just re-read the entire article. She sounds close, but no cigar.


7 posted on 03/22/2014 7:40:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Are you still a sedevacantist?


8 posted on 03/22/2014 8:47:05 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: ebb tide; KingOfVagabonds; Berlin_Freeper; UnRuley1; mlizzy; mc5cents; RichInOC; Prince of Space; ..

My soul magnifies the Lord,
And my spirit rejoices in God my Savior.
For He has regarded the low estate of His handmaiden,
For behold, henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For He who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.
He has shown strength with His arm:
He has scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He has put down the mighty from their thrones,
and exalted those of low degree.
He has filled the hungry with good things;
and the rich He has sent empty away.
He has helped His servant Israel, in remembrance of His mercy;
As He spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to His posterity forever.

Glory be to the Father and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen

Magníficat ánima mea Dóminum,
et exsultávit spíritus meus
in Deo salvatóre meo,
quia respéxit humilitátem
ancíllæ suæ.

Ecce enim ex hoc beátam
me dicent omnes generatiónes,
quia fecit mihi magna,
qui potens est,
et sanctum nomen eius,
et misericórdia eius in progénies
et progénies timéntibus eum.
Fecit poténtiam in bráchio suo,
dispérsit supérbos mente cordis sui;
depósuit poténtes de sede
et exaltávit húmiles.
Esuriéntes implévit bonis
et dívites dimísit inánes.
Suscépit Ísrael púerum suum,
recordátus misericórdiæ,
sicut locútus est ad patres nostros,
Ábraham et sémini eius in sæcula.

Glória Patri et Fílio
et Spirítui Sancto.
Sicut erat in princípio,
et nunc et semper,
et in sæcula sæculórum.

Amen.

She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child . . . Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God . . . None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.

(Commentary on the Magnificat, 1521; in Luther’s Works, Pelikan et al, vol. 21, 326)


9 posted on 03/22/2014 8:49:55 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: man_in_tx
She is Anglican/Episcopal.)

That helps to explains it. They are the closest "Protestant" church to Rome, including in being liberal .

10 posted on 03/22/2014 9:14:06 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Salvation

I just re-read the entire article. She sounds close, but no cigar.

//////////////
Correct - she (perhaps, just barely) falls on this side of the Cath/Prot divide.


11 posted on 03/22/2014 9:18:19 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting towards Mecca five times daily).)
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To: daniel1212

She is Anglican/Episcopal.)

That helps to explains it. They are the closest “Protestant” church to Rome, including in being liberal .

//////////////

In general, you are correct (on the liberal part), but there do exist some Anglican churches in the US, Africa, and elsewhere that are not liberal. (I know: I have attended one or two.)


12 posted on 03/22/2014 9:20:03 PM PDT by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting towards Mecca five times daily).)
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To: Jim Noble
Remember the words of the Lord before you all start throwing stones.

What he said was, "O woman, where are those accusers of yours? Not one condemned* you, did he?"

Then she said, "O Lord, not one**."

Then Jesus said to her, "Neither do I Myself condemn* you. Go on***! And |from now| keep on sinning no longer!"

-----

Notes:
* = condemn with a sentence of death and Hell
** = masculine
*** = continue on with your life
|...| = implicit

Jesus judged rightly but did not impose the sentence demanded by The Torah, for two eyewitnesses are required to execute the sentence expected for the crime (and it was a crime).

Do you think she then stopped sinning. Was she a sinner because she sinned, or did she sin because she was a sinner? Hm?

(Don't forget that for some Bible scholars, the authenticity of this passage is open to question. I don't, but it is not one, then, upon which to solely build your faith.)

13 posted on 03/22/2014 9:37:09 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: narses

**She became the Mother of God**

Not possible. God has no beginning or ending, cannot be added to or decreased. God cannot die. The Son of God died. “Him God raised up”. (from Peter’s testamony to Cornelius. You would do well to read it again very slowly a few times. (Peter defines the Godhead much better than the RCC or Luther.)

“But to us there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER, OF WHOM are all things, and we IN him;(semi-colon) and one Lord Jesus Christ, BY WHOM are all things, and we BY him”. I Cor. 9:6 (Paul defines the Godhead much better than the RCC or Luther.)

verse 7: “Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge..”. (boy, that’s the truth!!)

**It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.**

Neither Peter, or Paul, appear to have pondered such a gross misunderstanding of the scriptures.

Jesus explained the Godhead quite simply in John 4:23,24. and taught that the Father is in him, and he in the Father. He taught further that the Holy Ghost proceeds from the Father.

The Father is THE source of all things divine, and dwells, with unlimited power, in Jesus Christ.


14 posted on 03/22/2014 11:10:22 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: narses

Luther wasn’t a Protestant pope. He had in fact been Catholic, as we all know. Certainly, as the Bible says, I call Mary blessed among women, and as we frequently talk about in Biblle-believing churches, we should agree to what the Lord wants for us, in faith, as His servants, and we should “do whatever He, Jesus, tells us to do,” but the robbing of worship of God, and dependence on Him, which breaks the first of the Ten Commandments, I won’t do.
I so love the Lord that I will not be robbed in the relationship I have with Him to worship another creature, though she blessed among women. I still love Mary as “brethren” in Christ, and I love that the Lord blessed her so, and I see that spiritually God re-creates the same miracle when Jesus is born in the hearts of believers, and they are transformed into a new creature and taken from spiritual death to life, but I will try to as jealously guard my relationship with the Lord as He does our relationship. To make the choice to call on Mary for help and Cont’d


15 posted on 03/23/2014 12:11:54 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: narses

protection, and to call her “my life, my sweetness, and my hope,” would mean I lose out On being with Lord Himself. Paul wrote that through Jesus’ sacrifice what had separated us from God had been torn down, so I will go to the Lord, and commune with Him. From reading and accepting the whole Bible, I also can do nothing else. “Sola Scriptura” does not mean Scripture and nothing else, as from what I recall there are even other solas. It only means, the Bible, and no, “yes, buts.” We’re actually to do as Mary did, trust and obey God.


16 posted on 03/23/2014 12:20:21 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Zuriel

I first read the whole Bible about ten years ago, which really brought me to the Lord and changed my whole life and way of seeing things, although I was a believer before. I considered for the second time in my life what church to follow since the Lutheran didn’t seem right to me and knew just to follow the Bible. The area I’d lived my whole life in at the time was 80% Catholic, so I considered Catholicism, but decided after a time that it didn’t follow the Bible as it should. I was still mostly positive on it, though, but over time with experiencing more of the Lord and learning more, I’ve become more and more troubled by it.
Back 8 or so years ago, though, I would listen to Catholic radio and watch its TV for spiritual food still, and once on an EWTN program the host concluded with something like, “in the name of Mother, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.” I even saw the show’s replay so I know I didn’t imagine it. I’m only sorry that I wasn’t more skeptical then of the RC Church (Cont’d)


17 posted on 03/23/2014 12:34:50 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Zuriel

so I would have exactly remembered what the host said beyond all doubt. But to the best of my recollection, that is the exact phrase he used, although it still amazes to think that he actually did.


18 posted on 03/23/2014 12:37:08 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Salvation

There is a lot of concern among Bible-believing Christians over megachurches, and I am more cautious about them and big-name leaders. Jesus said the last shall be first and the first last, and that He came to serve, not be served. Those who follow or stay in the churches of Rick Warren, or Joel Osteen, tend to believe as they do or they wouldn’t be there. So it’s not surprising that this megachurch pastor’s congregation was stunned, because he didn’t change his positions over night, and those who follow the Bible most likely left either this church a long time ago or were never a part of it but from what they knew of it were not surprised but this pastor’s move.


19 posted on 03/23/2014 12:53:03 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Iscool

I agree also. Pretty much everything she wrote seems to not really be based on a solid foundation of Scripture, but what she’s picked up along the way. I understand this from being raised in the Lutheran Church in the 70’s and 80’s, where I learned the Gospel, Jesus’ most famous commands, like to forgive, and a few of the best known Old Testament stories. We were given only a tiny amount of Scripture and never told to read the Bible, so I understand her perspective and how she might draw conclusions that the Catholic Church emphasizes God’s family, that speaking of unworthiness before God is biblical, and that even with no merit of our own we can relate to others outside the church, because we all need Jesus just as much. It does seem that all she really knows is religion. I pray that changes and she comes to know the Lord Himself.


20 posted on 03/23/2014 1:17:50 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Iscool

I just re-read my comment to you and need to make a correction. I’m writing from my phone and it’s a little harder to do than from a computer. In writing about how I could understand why she has the perspective she does, I should have written about the last two examples I included is that I can understand why she doesn’t seem to know of them.


21 posted on 03/23/2014 1:24:17 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: ebb tide
("Grace does not destroy nature but perfects it," Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologica.) In other words, I'm not total garbage. I'm made in the imago Dei, the image of God, and even at my most wicked still carry a rich remnant of that image. I'm compelled by this view...

This is very Renaissance thinking. I'm OK, your OK. There is a spark of good in me.

This was never the view of the Hebrews nor the church for over 1500 years. In it is embodied the Pelagius and semi-Pelagius views. Yet I can understand how one is compelled by this view. It certainly makes us feel better about ourselves rather than take a true assessment of ourselves.


22 posted on 03/23/2014 3:07:32 AM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: Iscool
I don't think that she ever found Jesus...She is looking for a religion, a Church, not Christianity...

I agree with you. She has a "transcendental longing" that can only be satisfied with Jesus. She COULD find some of that with Holy Communion in the Catholic Church, Roman or Orthodox, wouldn't you think?

23 posted on 03/23/2014 6:00:06 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: ebb tide
Being a Protestant is easy: NO
Sunday and holy day requirements
once-a-year confession requirement
meatless days
Lenten fasting, abstention
confessions at all
fasting one hour before communion

WHY change to Catholicism and then be required to do all this stuff? The Protestant path is the easy path and is so much simpler...and easy. We all like easy.

Ex-father Martin Luther paved the way for EASY.

24 posted on 03/23/2014 6:14:01 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Jim Noble; NYer; Salvation; zot

Jim,

Yes, all of us who follow Jesus needs to remember that it is He and his Father whom unite us, whether we are Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox.

G-F


25 posted on 03/23/2014 6:45:22 AM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Jim Noble
Thank you for the reminder. Other passages worthy of consideration before arguing and throwing stones:
1 Corinthians 1:10
1 Timothy 2:8
1 Timothy 4:16
1 Timothy 6:2-5
Ephesians 5:6-14
2 Peter 2:1-3
2 Timothy 2:14-19
2 Timothy 2:23
2 Timothy 4:3

26 posted on 03/23/2014 7:54:21 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
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To: ebb tide

It doesn’t sound like she has any faith at all. Faith comes from hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17), becoming rooted and grounded in love by daily fellowship with Jesus (Ephesians 3:14-21). By feeding on pure spiritual milk, she can mature as a Believer (1 Peter 2:1-9). She can stir up the gift inside, recognizing that the Greater One is inside of her (1 John 4:1-4). Confidence comes from believing that there is NOW NO condemnation, that she is a child of God, and joint-heir with Jesus. (Romans 8:1-2, 8:11-17) The “works” and struggle ends because Jesus has done it all for you. Fruit bearing becomes easy because its the life of God flowing through the vine and to the branches. Religion always screws up the simplicity of the Gospel, and God’s perfect plan for His kids.

As someone earlier said, she is drifting in and out of religious traditions, the inventions of men - ceremonies, philosophy etc. Her spirit desires a relationship with her Heavenly Father and that spiritual connection comes only through faith in Jesus. It only matures by constant spiritual fellowship. She should heed Paul’s warning and his instructions to cling only to Jesus, the Word made flesh. There, she will find the spiritual peace that no intellectual or religious pursuit will ever provide.

Colossians 2:8-10 (AMP)
8 See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men’s ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).
9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].
10 And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].


27 posted on 03/23/2014 10:31:21 AM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: cloudmountain

LOL!

Friend, I can tell you are not Lutheran by that statement.


28 posted on 03/23/2014 10:32:33 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. I’m glad that she found what she was looking for.


29 posted on 03/23/2014 11:10:00 AM PDT by zot
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To: Kandy Atz

It doesn’t seem like she’s read most of the Bible from her not being aware of what it says on many of the things she writes about. She doesn’t seem to be aware that “church” isn’t really a building or a service, but “the church,” the body of believers and the bride of Christ.
I looked more into other things she’s written, and she contributed to a feminist, liberal Christian volume called “Jesus Girls,” and has contributed several pieces to the Huffington Post, inlcuding one I just read called, “Why isn’t God like Eric Clapton,” which talks more about her leaving and returning to church. She talks about a longing for God and knows church does something but that’s about all. She had asked why God seems so distant and it still seems like He is to her. It seems like she isn’t willing to consider taking the Bible as God’s inspired, inerrant Word, though.


30 posted on 03/23/2014 11:35:56 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: cloudmountain
confessions at all

Ex-father Martin Luther paved the way for EASY.

You know your Luther alright, never was one for repentance or confessions.

31 posted on 03/23/2014 12:55:42 PM PDT by xone
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To: Faith Presses On

Being a Protestant is easy: NO
Sunday and holy day requirements
once-a-year confession requirement
meatless days
Lenten fasting, abstention
confessions at all
fasting one hour before communion
WHY change to Catholicism and then be required to do all this stuff? The Protestant path is the easy path and is so much simpler...and easy. We all like easy.

Ex-father Martin Luther paved the way for EASY.


32 posted on 03/23/2014 3:55:26 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: redgolum
Lol! Friend, I can tell you are not Lutheran by that statement.

I've read the (auto)biography of Martin Luther. It was my read that he was MOST sincere in his endeavors to right the wrongs he saw.

I also believe that he was a GOOD man, from start to finish.

When I was in Germany I saw where he worked and the "famous" ink spot where he threw his ink pot at the Devil.

I also DON'T think that he MEANT to create what he created, PROTESTANTISM, which now, I believe has some 30,000-40,000 different denominations. THAT he could NOT have foreseen. He only PROTESTED what he believed NEEDED protesting.

33 posted on 03/23/2014 4:22:43 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: narses
Being a Protestant is easy: NO

Sunday and holy day requirements- required for what? (RFW)

once-a-year confession requirement- RFW? meatless days- Col 2:16

Lenten fasting- Luther fasted, abstention from what?

confessions at all- Obviously never read any Luther.

fasting one hour before communion RFW?

WHY change to Catholicism and then be required to do all this stuff?

Acts 15:28, Gal 3:23-29,

34 posted on 03/23/2014 5:31:30 PM PDT by xone
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To: narses

Yep, y’all are the saved by works bunch. Your own testamonies declare that.

Some of the RCs I have known for years abide strictly with that list,....and are some of the most foulmouthed people I know, even taking the Lord’s name in vain regularly.

I remember a older bookkeeper at a place I worked over 20 yrs ago. While known to use ‘colorful’ words now and then, she was fiercely devout; communion every day, followed all the rules. One day in February, she showed up with the ashes on her forehead. Me, not thinking about the start of (the man-made tradition) Lent, commented to her that she had a dirty smudge in her forehead, to which she replied: “D*** it, don’t you know it’s ash wednesday?”

She was a devout Dem as well. I’ll never forget her excitement upon returning from a presidential campaign rally for guvner Clintoon. She was awestruck, and went on and on about him. I said, “I thought your church disappoves of abortion.” She glared at me for moment, then walked away.


35 posted on 03/23/2014 5:55:44 PM PDT by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....Do you believe it?)
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To: Zuriel
"**She became the Mother of God**... Not possible. God has no beginning or ending, cannot be added to or decreased. God cannot die. "

These statements do not contradict each other. "Mother of God" does not mean that God had a beginning or an ending, nor that He could be added to or decreased. God has been alive from all eternity, without a beginning.

To say "Mary is the Mother of God" is to say "Jesus is God co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit) and at a point in time, that same everlasting and eternal Person was born on earth and had an earthly mother."

It does not imply that His mother had divine status. She was a creature. He is the Creator. She gave birth to, but did not give existence to, her Son,

who in fact created her and infinitely surpasses her in every possible way.

Do not misinterpret "Mother" to mean "ultimate source." Christ is a divine Person; Mary a human person.

36 posted on 03/23/2014 6:24:54 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Chaire, Kecharitomene.)
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To: cloudmountain
Let me rephrase it.

I grew up in and LCMS church that had strict practices most Catholics would not do. Did we fast twice a year? Well, only if you wanted to, but if you wanted to it had better be more than twice a year.

I have seen a great many Catholics use the sacrament of confession as a revolving door for their favorite sin. Yes I know that isn't the way it should work, but there attitude is “So what!” Where I came from (and honestly where I go now) you will get called out if you are in public sin. I still remember a family friend getting spoken to in front of the elders because of adultery.

My point wasn't that all Lutheran's do this, but saying it is easy tells me you have little idea of what happens in the more orthodox synods. Growing up the Catholics in eastern Nebraska joked that we were to strict!

As for Luther wanting to end up with a divided church, no he did not. It pained him. But once politics got involved, it was going to happen. The princes did not like the Pope, and Pope did not like the Emperor.

37 posted on 03/24/2014 8:41:45 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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