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Mosque of Jesus, Son of Mary: A Notable Gesture
American Thinker ^ | 3/30/2014 | Jenna Bowen

Posted on 03/30/2014 2:23:10 AM PDT by markomalley

A spectacular Roman Catholic church in Syracuse, NY is about to become the Mosque of Jesus, Son of Mary.

Holy Trinity Church, established in 1891, is a stunning piece of Gothic-style architecture with glorious stained glass windows depicting the life of Christ. It was closed in 2010 when the Catholic diocese there blamed a declining number of priests and a population shift from the cities to the suburbs.

St. John the Baptist Roman Catholic Church took over ownership of the building, and it was registered with the Syracuse Landmark Preservation Board. In 2012, St. John’s petitioned the preservation board to sell the church to a parish in Baton Rouge, LA. The parish wanted most of the building's contents and its striking stained glass windows. The board turned down the request in favor of keeping the building intact instead of giving another Christian parish the opportunity to use the relics in the type of worship they were intended for.

Fast forward to December 2012 when the Catholic diocese sold the building to the Northside Learning Center, who subsequently leased it to an Islamic society.

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS:
They should have torn the church down rather than this desecration.

A true testament to the wide swath of destruction left by liberalism.

1 posted on 03/30/2014 2:23:10 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

I don’t think they expected it to be used as a mosque - this organization seems to have been some sort of community activist group which was, of course, a front for Islam and probably planned all along to sell it to the second group for use as a mosque.

In general, I think they should tear these churches down and just sell the land, because the potential for abuse is too great. Better yet, make n effort to recruit more members and keep them open...


2 posted on 03/30/2014 2:28:30 AM PDT by livius
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To: markomalley

I live a block away from what used to be a little fundamentalist Christian church. Around 15 years ago it was sold to the Muslims and it became a mosque. The Catholic Church my family attends around 5 blocks away is 10-15 times larger but the muzzies have their toe hold in. Every gas station, 7-11, dunkin donuts and more is run by islamicists. It’s getting to be about time to move out to the country somewhere.


3 posted on 03/30/2014 3:24:16 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: markomalley
They should have torn the church down rather than this desecration.

A true testament to the wide swath of destruction left by liberalism.

It's a building - expensively ornate, but just a building. How is it a desecration?

4 posted on 03/30/2014 5:22:04 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb

I agree.


5 posted on 03/30/2014 6:03:47 AM PDT by babble-on
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To: trebb

“...but it’s just a building.”

I must beg to differ here.
Most of these late 19th century, early twentieth century churches are churches built by European immigrants with the little money they had. They are monuments to faith, culture and struggle.
Occupying the religious structures of conquered peoples is a hallmark of Islamic conquest. It is aggression.
Holy Trinity is a nave church with a north-south orientation. The sanctuary faces south. The architecture of the building is a processional space with an unmistakable hierarchy culminating in the south apse. These jokers will no doubt put up a mihrab along the east nave wall which they will face in prayer. Every service they have will be a statement of conquest over the Christians who erected the building and their children who submitted to them.
I agree with Mark. Stay and defend, or respectfully remove.


6 posted on 03/30/2014 6:38:20 AM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: markomalley

Is it just a matter of time for us now?


7 posted on 03/30/2014 7:26:06 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Ouchthatonehurt
I must beg to differ here. Most of these late 19th century, early twentieth century churches are churches built by European immigrants with the little money they had. They are monuments to faith, culture and struggle. Occupying the religious structures of conquered peoples is a hallmark of Islamic conquest. It is aggression. Holy Trinity is a nave church with a north-south orientation. The sanctuary faces south. The architecture of the building is a processional space with an unmistakable hierarchy culminating in the south apse. These jokers will no doubt put up a mihrab along the east nave wall which they will face in prayer. Every service they have will be a statement of conquest over the Christians who erected the building and their children who submitted to them. I agree with Mark. Stay and defend, or respectfully remove.

I understand the tendency to attribute holiness to historical structures due to the hearts of the believers who built them. I don't see where the idea that all church structures, even the most splendid examples are holy in and of themselves. It is what goes on in them 9or out of them) that adds the holiness: Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20"For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst."

Jesus does not require any man-made structure to shine in all His Glory.

Pre-death/resurrection (Old Covenant) the Temple was whole. Upon His death, the curtain was split and the original symbolism was destroyed to be replaced by the New Covenant where men in temples no longer stood between us and God.THE TEMPLE is supposed to be rebuilt when the abomination that stands in its place is overthrown - that is the only structure that will have true consequence in the scheme of His Reign and it hasn't stood since 70 AD or so.

I think we get diverted by too many things that are of the Earth and it takes the focus away from the important stuff - wherever we gather to worship, He is there - what more do we need while we await His return?

I know He preached in numerous temples, but that was where those who needed to be educated (pharisees/priests) about their misguided ideas about their own importance/standing spent their time.

Monuments come and monuments go - He was/is/will be (as His part of the Great I Am) and we have the opportunity to be part of the is/will be crowd with or without these monuments.

While taking over these monuments is part of Islamic aggression, we can't stop it and whenever we rail against such things, we are missing opportunities to carry the message of Him - that message has nothing to do with the buildings we gather in - we don't keep building holy places; we build places where holy interaction and worship can be conveniently undertaken.

Those who take over the religious monuments think their 'god' requires protection and defense by mortal men - our God does not require such pitifully impotent support. He IS, regardless of His detractors or even if all the buildings in the world collapse today.

8 posted on 03/30/2014 7:29:04 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: markomalley
The Mosque will be called 'Terrorist Center for Anti-American, Anti-Israeli Activities'.

Which way is Mecca, so I can urinate in its direction.

9 posted on 03/30/2014 8:01:50 AM PDT by ExCTCitizen (I'm ExCTCitizen and I approve this reply. If it does offend Libs, I'm NOT sorry...)
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To: trebb

“Jesus does not require any man-made structure to shine in all His Glory.”

Trebb, I agree wholeheartedly.
I hope you’ll give me a wide berth here because I’m an architect. While God “does not require any made-made structure,” I do, or at least I’m well served in having such places.
You may be correct that some become too diverted by things of this earth, but that is just the opposite of my argument here in support of Christian sacred architecture. To me they are sacramental in that they help manifest that which is, but cannot be seen. I’ve often thought of what it must have been like to be a French pig farmer outside Paris hundreds of years ago. Imagine doing very physical work from sun up to sun down everyday in filthy smelly conditions. Then imagine on a sunny Easter Sunday going to Notre Dame Cathedral for a Mass. The smell of incense, the sound of a choir in perfect harmony and the soaring height of the interior filled with the entire spectrum of stained glass light shining on iconography telling the biblical stories that as an illiterate you are unable to read about. God does not require such things, but man, that would sure help me understand the glory of the risen Lord!
My problem, my big problem, with church-mosque conversions like this is largely a cultural one. I do not want Islam to use such spaces as props for their crypto political passive-aggression. They can build their own buildings if they’re serious about appropriate worship space.


10 posted on 03/30/2014 8:37:29 AM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: markomalley

These Muslims with this name of the mosque are honoring Mary!

This should be a joy to Roman Catholics who believe those 15 promises she gave for her rosary..

Mosque’s new name? Mosque of ‘that guy’who was the Son of MARY...

I doubt they will have lobbying/workshop sessions of the LGBT community in the mosque like the Roman Catholic All Saints Church did in the same city...
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/02/transgender_talks_hosted_by_two_syracuse_catholic_churches.html


11 posted on 03/30/2014 9:34:31 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: trebb
I think we get diverted by too many things that are of the Earth and it takes the focus away from the important stuff

Important stuff like muslims turning our churches into mosques.

12 posted on 03/30/2014 9:34:57 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: delchiante

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3127542/posts

I thought I pasted the forum link the first time...sorry..


13 posted on 03/30/2014 9:48:22 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: delchiante; markomalley; NYer; Salvation; zot; trebb

Moslems do NOT recognize Jesus as our Savior, but as another minor Jewish prophet, inferior to Mohammed. There is no recognition for Mary in the Koran. Thus their naming their new mosque is nothing but a LIE. They are permitted to lie to infidels and non-believers, including Christians and Jews, if it furthers the cause of Islam.

To me this is desecration just as it would be to slaughter a pig in a synagogue or Jewish cemetery.


14 posted on 03/30/2014 11:32:21 AM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar

This is Islam.


15 posted on 03/30/2014 2:28:06 PM PDT by zot
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To: Ouchthatonehurt
Most of these late 19th century, early twentieth century churches are churches built by European immigrants with the little money they had. They are monuments to faith, culture and struggle.

So they're not monuments to God or God's house of worship then. Fine, burn it to the ground, it doesn't matter then what happens to it.

16 posted on 03/30/2014 2:37:49 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; ...

H/t to freeper Grey Friar for the ping.

17 posted on 03/30/2014 3:33:37 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

Why just tear it down


18 posted on 03/30/2014 3:36:37 PM PDT by SevenofNine (We are Freepers, all your media bases belong to us ,resistance is futile)
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To: SevenofNine
Why just tear it down

$$$

19 posted on 03/30/2014 4:06:37 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: markomalley
The Catholic Diocese of Syracuse knew who they were selling their church to. They didn’t care that people like Anna Giannantomio, who attended Holy Trinity for nearly six decades, might be insulted that the Learning Center would lease the building to an Islamic Society that would petition to remove all crosses on the steeples and grounds. Catholic Charities didn’t care because they (along with Interfaith Works), have been assisting copious amounts of Muslim refugees in coming to Central New York for years.

The liberals fellowshiping at Starbucks worship center choose Islam over anything remotely Christian, in order to justify themselves as morally superior, helping those it sees as persecuted by Christian ethos that upholds both merit=benefit and mercy as mercy, versus the victim-entitlement lie from Hell.

While i oppose Catholicism on many things, and also know the church is not a building, it evidences a faith that professes God and traditional morality which liberalism wants out, and as buildings are a testament to that, they and Islam gloats over taking such over.

20 posted on 03/30/2014 4:19:11 PM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: trebb

I agree. The “value” of this building is a separate issue from whether it’s advisable to establish mosques.

We wouldn’t have the mosques growing up in Random Northern City if the Catholics who built the old churches had stayed there and had children and grandchildren who stayed. They didn’t. A lot of them gave up having children. Others moved South. It’s a whole different environment now.


21 posted on 03/30/2014 4:24:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Email your grandmother!)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

Completely agree with you. My childhood parish was built at the turn of the 20th century by Irish immigrants, and it is one of the most beautiful churches I have ever seen outside of St. Patrick’s Cathedral. Those early parishioners gave every extra dollar they had to help construct the church. I wish that some wealthy Christian benefactor would step forward and save this church from submission.

If I could, I would.


22 posted on 03/30/2014 4:46:46 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: markomalley
Few Americans have a working knowledge of the mechanics of the spread of islam. Even Fewer Americans believe any harm can come from putting aside Christianity for a secular lifestyle.

What are the real consequences if we fail Christ and allow islam to take the world.

Liberal Protestant and Catholic Christians want to call on Allah for ecumenical reasons - but Islam is not another protestant division in the body of Christ.

23 posted on 03/30/2014 4:50:30 PM PDT by x_plus_one
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To: NYer

What a beautiful church.


24 posted on 03/30/2014 4:50:38 PM PDT by NoKoolAidforMe (I'm clinging to my God and my guns. You can keep the change.)
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To: markomalley

The bishops in NJ decided to NEVER sell a church for that reason and for the usual reason where fundamentalists buy the church and then convert many of the current parishioners to their faith.

Unfortunately, many of the closed parish schools are now rented out to Muslims operating charter and private schools. It’s the sign of the times.


25 posted on 03/30/2014 4:55:00 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: markomalley

The Catholic Church should have sold it only with very restrictive covenants to prevent a profane use like a tavern or another obviously inappropriate use like this.


26 posted on 03/30/2014 7:46:15 PM PDT by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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To: NYer

I hate this too but if people don’t go to church in the first place this happens.


27 posted on 03/31/2014 8:58:42 AM PDT by Morgana (Wagglebee please come home we miss you!)
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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode
I think we get diverted by too many things that are of the Earth and it takes the focus away from the important stuff

Important stuff like muslims turning our churches into mosques.

I was thinking important stuff like focusing on our own souls and carrying the Word to those who might not yet have accepted Christ as their Savior.

That is the only constant we can count on - carrying the Word. All else is here to stay and will get worse - God has told us how it will be before He returns to set things right. If you believe in Him and the Word of the Bible, then you can't believe that we can turn the transition to a global cesspool around or that anything else is really that important.

28 posted on 04/05/2014 3:06:48 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: GreyFriar
Moslems do NOT recognize Jesus as our Savior, but as another minor Jewish prophet, inferior to Mohammed. There is no recognition for Mary in the Koran. Thus their naming their new mosque is nothing but a LIE. They are permitted to lie to infidels and non-believers, including Christians and Jews, if it furthers the cause of Islam. To me this is desecration just as it would be to slaughter a pig in a synagogue or Jewish cemetery.

And yet some have been saved by hearing and believing the Word. Do you believe the Bible and that the world will decline into a cesspool and more and more will hate us because we love Him?

If you do, how can you allow such to turn your crank?

29 posted on 04/05/2014 3:50:23 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb

Jesus’s message is NOT going to be preached in this mosque. the naming is merely a lie on the part of the moslems.


30 posted on 04/05/2014 6:15:05 AM PDT by GreyFriar ( Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: GreyFriar
Jesus’s message is NOT going to be preached in this mosque. the naming is merely a lie on the part of the moslems.

No one believes that His name will be preached here. We all know that the name is a ruse to garner support or reduce opposition. So what? It's being done and agree or disagree, getting hung up on the meme that they're telling lies has no utility. Jesus told us to, "Resist not evil". He didn't mean we were to succumb to Satan's whispers that evil deeds are OK, He meant that evil will attack us on a personal level and even that we will be hated because we love Him. He is the final solution to the evil that flourishes and that will grow exponentially as we approach His return. Our job is not to get hung up on trying to squash evil - He made it clear that evil will prevail on the earth and we couldn't stop it. We resist on the personal level by not committing evil acts that harm us and others spiritually. When we try to take active measures against evil as it abounds around us, we get distracted from the task of loving Him and carrying His Word. Satan wins - for the nonce, but Satan has already lost the real battle and has been relegated to eternal suffering even though we suffer the Evil One's desecration of our sensibilities in this finite realm called "Time".I can hate Muslims or I can be prepared to witness to them - what is the proper venue? I remember a story about a guy called Jonah - God told him to witness/minister to a really evil place called Ninevah. He made his human decision to go in the other direction because he knew in his human heart that those people were so evil that they deserved to burn in Hell and he would take no part in the possibility that some of them might be saved. To say the least, God had other ideas. I find that it easier for us to be Jonah than it is to do what God wants because we can grasp the evil on a personal level and cannot truly fell the Love that God has and His desire that we do everything we can to let others know of His love. IOW, we let our own personal ability to hate outweigh His message of Love.

I'm no one to claim the right to preach, I only put this type information/argument out there because, when I truly settle in to try to get a handle on Who and What God is, I see my own fallibility. Just as Paul lamented that he did that which he would not do, and did not do that he would do, we are all similarly poor in spirit and need to recognize that in ourselves that we not consider ourselves as the Pharisees consider themselves.

31 posted on 04/05/2014 6:38:33 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: trebb

Have you ever been to the dedication of a church? If you had, I doubt that you would have said that it is just a building.

The Holy Spirit is called down on the four pillars of the church through a Sign of the Cross made on the pillar with Holy Chrism. Our church was dedicated three months ago and we can still see those marks.

Also the altar is thorough washed by the Archbishop in the oil of Holy Chrism, so much that it runs over onto the floor. The all the oil is cleaned up from around the altar and the altar is vested for the Mass.

There are many other examples of how a church dedicated as Catholic will always remain Catholic through the Holy Spirit.


32 posted on 04/05/2014 6:59:48 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
I haven't seen such a dedication of a Church. I started out in the Catholic Church and most of the buildings had been around for some time. One new one was part of a Catholic school (one structure with the church as a bigger, taller wing, and do not recall such a dedication but I was only 10 at the time.

Question - if it was dedicated and will remain so from the Holy Spirit, what would the ramifications be for those that put it to other purposes? The Holy Spirit, as one of the three facets of God, would seem to be inviolable to me and those who tried to desecrate it or blaspheme the Holy Spirit (the one truly unforgivable sin) would be getting their eventual comeuppance from He Himself.

Since I strayed from Catholicism at an early age, and choose to lean on the Bible, I understand my perceptions are different from devout Catholics (not being trite, but some of my best friends are Catholics).

I continue to appreciate your own personal patience with me when I raise my own questions and try to add maturity and depth to my points of view/system of beliefs as a Christian who doesn't put so much weight on religiosity as on the Word in the Bible itself.

33 posted on 04/05/2014 7:15:13 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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