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Catholic Priests Who Become Non-Catholic Ministers
Canon Law Made Easy ^ | April 3, 2014 | Cathy Caridi, J.C.L.

Posted on 04/04/2014 3:49:02 AM PDT by Weiss White

Q: Recently, a Catholic priest in our area left to become “pastor” of an Episcopal church. If we assume for a moment that the Episcopal liturgy contains the valid words of Institution, and if we assume that valid matter was used, does he confect the Eucharist? –Patrick

A: Sad to say, the case cited by Patrick is far from unique. In certain countries with a sizeable Episcopal community, one far too frequently encounters priests who have left the Catholic Church to join the Church of England—often in order to get married while still remaining in some sort of ministry—and who now function as clergy in an Episcopal/Anglican parish. Since these men were, presumably, validly ordained as Catholic priests, does the Catholic Church regard their non-Catholic ministry as valid?

(Excerpt) Read more at canonlawmadeeasy.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; Theology
KEYWORDS: bandwidththief; bloggymcblogger; blogpimp; blogselfpromo; blogspam; canonlaw; catholic; checkoutmyblog; comeseemyblog; didjareadmyblog; episcopal; ihaveablog; iminteresting; listentome; lookatme; payattentiontome; pimpmyblog; priest; readme; readmyblog; readmyramblings; trollingforhits
I can only post an excerpt because this material is copyrighted
1 posted on 04/04/2014 3:49:02 AM PDT by Weiss White
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To: Weiss White
Given the incoherence of Anglican doctrine on the Eucharist and Real Presence, which essentially leaves it up to the individual to decide if it is a holy sacrifice or a simple memorial, and the priest's formal and public apostasy signifying the intent not to consecrate as the Church teaches, I don't see how he could celebrate a valid Eucharist.
2 posted on 04/04/2014 4:10:42 AM PDT by Loyalist
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To: Weiss White

Even more odd - In the parish where I grew up, , an Episcopal minister who was married and had three children, became a priest. Yes, he continued to have his family. ???


3 posted on 04/04/2014 4:16:37 AM PDT by REPANDPROUDOFIT (I think I'm a Republican, but (watching our representatives) I can't quite figure out what that is!)
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To: REPANDPROUDOFIT

What you’re describing is seen more and more; Father Dwight Longenecker is a well-known example. What is your problem with this?


4 posted on 04/04/2014 4:39:51 AM PDT by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: Weiss White

A Catholic Priest Biblically Saved
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VKiv3ZGAWo&feature=youtu.be

Two Former Priests Analyze Catholicism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aNksLa_LQM

With God’s grace, even a priest can be saved.


5 posted on 04/04/2014 4:42:17 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt

Sola Deo Gloria!


6 posted on 04/04/2014 4:45:06 AM PDT by Gamecock (If the cross is not foolishness to the lost world then we have misrepresented the cross." S.L.)
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To: .45 Long Colt
On the other hand, when a Protestant minister becomes Catholic, as have Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Dwight Longenecker, and hundreds of others, "he never really knew Christ to begin with" (quoting one Protestant FReeper).

The Protestant world is evidently full of such men: ordained, leading churches, yet, in their hearts, not saved at all. This is a serious problem. How do you propose to fix it?

7 posted on 04/04/2014 4:55:31 AM PDT by Campion ("Social justice" begins in the womb)
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To: Weiss White
It's pantomime, though sometimes extraordinarily well done as at St. Mary the Virgin in Manhattan or St. Clement's in Philadelphia. Imagine if Cecil B. DeMille were a liturgist . . . .
8 posted on 04/04/2014 5:02:53 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Campion

“The Protestant world is evidently full of such men: ordained, leading churches, yet, in their hearts, not saved at all. This is a serious problem. How do you propose to fix it?”

Protestant and Catholic Churches both have a serious problems. Last days.


9 posted on 04/04/2014 5:24:28 AM PDT by stars & stripes forever (Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.)
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To: Campion

“On the other hand, when a Protestant minister becomes Catholic, as have Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Dwight Longenecker, and hundreds of others, “he never really knew Christ to begin with” (quoting one Protestant FReeper).”

Men don’t slip in and out of regeneration.

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.”
—1 John 2:19

“The Protestant world is evidently full of such men: ordained, leading churches, yet, in their hearts, not saved at all. This is a serious problem. How do you propose to fix it?”

We are told there would be tares among the wheat and we are warned of wolves in sheep’s clothing. Knowing that should eliminate all forms of popery. We can’t merely trust the teaching of men. We must be Bereans (Acts 17) and prove that what we are taught is so. The true church, all born again believers, must remain grounded in the Word and repent of sin in their lives and in their congregations. We must be serious about biblical worship. If we were we would repent of all the blasphemy and idolatry in Protestant/ Evangelical churches today.

Being led astray by a false teacher is an awful thing, but each individual is responsible for listening and being misled. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” (2 Timothy 4:3)

Today’s church world is little different than Israel in Jeremiah’s day: “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?” (Jeremiah 5:31) People being misled by false teachers love to have it so.

There wil come a day when The Lord will separate the wheat from the tares. False teachers will hear the horrible words, “I never knew you. Depart from me ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7) In the end we can rest easy because we know all who were been given by the Father to the Son (the elect) will be saved. (John 6:37)


10 posted on 04/04/2014 5:38:55 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Campion
Do you honestly believe that is limited to non Catholic churches? Sadly it is all to common.

There was an old Freeper here call Mineral Man who, among other things, once interviewed many pastors and priests as part of a research project. He stated (and I do believe him from similar work) that a great many of them either were never Christian or lost it going through seminary. They kept on in the ministry either as a way maintain financial security or because they wanted to give comfort to people that they couldn't give to themselves.

It isn't limited to one group. I have a friend that is a pastor who has stated that he worries about most who go into the ministry. He has a call, many want a job or to run away from a problem.

11 posted on 04/04/2014 5:39:51 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Weiss White
I disagree with the conclusion here. The minister needs the intent to do what the Church does when he celebrates.

If he has publicly broken with the Church, surely this demonstrates defect of intent which would make his act invalid.

12 posted on 04/04/2014 5:41:30 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Weiss White

The author has one bad habit! I wish she could curb it, even a little! I find it annoying! Can you guess what it is!


13 posted on 04/04/2014 5:44:35 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Loyalist

Is he actually an apostate, or even a heretic. Maybe he’s just a guy who got the hots for some honey and jumped over the fence.

Seriously, his status as a renegade does not imply that he can’t confect the Eucharist. The decision to run off does not imply that he cannot form the intention to consecrate.

The fact that he CAN consecrate validly only makes his crime all the worse.


14 posted on 04/04/2014 5:48:48 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Weiss White

I would rather a Catholic Priest take the honest path and do this if he cannot reconcile his own beliefs with the Church. Rather than remain in the outward role of a Priest and continually undermine them.


15 posted on 04/04/2014 6:02:50 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: All

**Before delving into this matter more deeply, it’s important to note that the Code of Canon Law says absolutely nothing about this phenomenon. That, in itself, is not surprising—because by its very nature, canon law presumes good faith on the part of those whom it binds. Put differently, the Church assumes that its members want to be good Catholics, and to do what the Church teaches is correct and just. The whole purpose of canon law is to clarify matters, so as to enable us Catholics to make right choices and to act correctly. Consequently it does not directly address the legal implications of the actions of renegade Catholics who freely and knowingly walk away from the Church, other than to make it clear that they shouldn’t do this!**

Very telling.


16 posted on 04/04/2014 6:05:42 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: All
Lots of details in these links. Also goes along with the mark of the Sacrament -- the priest will always be marked as a Catholic priest, just as a baptized and confirmed person will always be marked as a Catholic!

First of all, as was already discussed in greater detail in “Can a Priest Ever Return to the Lay State?” once a man is ordained a priest, his priesthood never becomes invalid (c. 290). This is a legal concept firmly rooted in Catholic theology: the Church teaches that ordination—like the sacraments of baptism and confirmation—confers a permanent ontological change on the person receiving it. That’s why these sacraments cannot be received more than once (c. 845.1; cf. also Catechism of the Catholic Church 1582).

It logically follows that once a man is validly ordained a priest, he will always be a priest, and (as per canon 1338.2) no one on earth can take that away from him! Nevertheless, it is canonically possible for an ordained Catholic priest to return to the lay state: Rome can, if it so decides, release a priest from the duties and obligations which are connected with being a cleric (see “Can a Priest Ever Return to the Lay State?” for more on this). Sometimes this is done because the priest requests it; other times, as discussed in “What Does it Mean to Defrock a Priest?” it is imposed as a penalty—but regardless of who initiates it, the end-results are canonically the same.

One result, which is relevant to Patrick’s question, can be found in canon 292, which notes that a priest who has lost the clerical state is prohibited from exercising holy orders. This means, of course, that he must not administer the sacraments, is not permitted to preach, and may not bless anyone/anything. The canon observes that there is only one exception to this rule: in accord with canon 976, a laicized priest is able—and in fact is obliged—to hear the confession of a person in danger of death who requests it. This is because the spiritual well-being of a dying person “trumps” the laicized priest’s obligation to refrain from priestly ministry. (See “Can All Priests Always Hear Confessions?” for more on this scenario.) But apart from this uncommon situation, a priest who has returned to the lay state is not permitted to celebrate the sacraments. Once he has been laicized he is, in short, supposed to be living his life as any other member of the laity.


17 posted on 04/04/2014 6:18:32 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: .45 Long Colt
Two Former Priests Analyze kvetch about Catholicism.

Fixed the title to make it more accurate.

18 posted on 04/04/2014 6:43:59 AM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: stars & stripes forever

....Yet still great opportunities to witness to Christ and the Gospel.


19 posted on 04/04/2014 6:56:06 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Weiss White

We need to pray for all those who care for souls.


20 posted on 04/04/2014 7:04:35 AM PDT by Slyfox (When Jesus sees a momma holding her little baby, it reminds him of his own momma.)
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To: Arthur McGowan

Excessive exclaming?


21 posted on 04/04/2014 8:50:01 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: stars & stripes forever
"Protestant and Catholic Churches both have a serious problems. Last days."

If not the last days, at least time for Western Civilization to pay the piper for all the blessings and protection they've taken for granted by dancing with Pan rather than bowing to Christ.

22 posted on 04/04/2014 9:23:23 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Salvation
One result, which is relevant to Patrick’s question, can be found in canon 292, which notes that a priest who has lost the clerical state is prohibited from exercising holy orders.

And after saying all that, it remains that there is nothing the Catholic religion can do to prevent a priest, anywhere from turning a wafer into Jesus Christ...And that creates quite a dilemma for your religion...

And look at the ramifications...If a bishop leaves for a Protestant religion, the bishop still has the authority to ordain priests in the Protestant religion...

But what is not being mentioned is that of the mind of the renegade priest...A former Catholic priest in a Protestant denomination has admitted to himself that that there is no change in the bread and wine when he prays over it...

This would have been realized that the bread and wine never did change...It doesn't look any different to a priest than it does any one else...It still looks like bread and wine...I'd bet there are untold numbers of priests out there who don't really believe that the bread and wine turns into flesh and blood but they don't dare let on to the laity...

Worrying about a former priest using his 'special' gifts is a waste of time...A born again priest is not going to waste his time with things he doesn't believe in like the Catholic Eucharist and worship of Mary and man made idols...

They do however have to come up with some answers to placate those who would ask questions about while trying to keep your religion is somewhat of a good light...

23 posted on 04/04/2014 9:32:31 AM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: verga

The person God intends that for will hear the truth.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.”
— 1 Corinthians 2:14


24 posted on 04/04/2014 10:54:07 AM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: .45 Long Colt
The person God intends that for will hear the truth.

And either become Catholic or remain strong in the Catholic Faith.

25 posted on 04/04/2014 11:23:12 AM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: verga

LOL


26 posted on 04/04/2014 12:53:32 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: verga

“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!”
—Isaiah 5:20


27 posted on 04/04/2014 12:58:13 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: Iscool

28 posted on 04/04/2014 2:35:44 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: verga
Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, "Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honoureth Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.' "

Mark 7:7 "Howbeit in vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

Mark 7:8 "For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do."

Mark 7:9"And He said unto them. "Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition."

29 posted on 04/04/2014 2:38:49 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: SoothingDave; Arthur McGowan

He picks his nose at the dinner table?


30 posted on 04/04/2014 2:41:37 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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To: Karl Spooner

HaHaHaHa...


31 posted on 04/04/2014 3:30:07 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: .45 Long Colt
Agreed! All believers should pay attention to the pastors they choose to be shepherded by, whether Catholic OR not Catholic. Having had an ordination never has been a guarantee of perpetual orthodoxy. Paul AND Peter both warned of it back at the very beginning.
32 posted on 04/04/2014 3:32:00 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: Karl Spooner

Yes we all know that is what the prots do, you didn’t have to emphasize it in red. Feel free to have the last word.


33 posted on 04/04/2014 4:06:39 PM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: verga; .45 Long Colt
Two Former Priests Analyze kvetch about Catholicism.

Fixed the title to make it more accurate.

Two Former Priests Protestant ministers Analyze kvetch about Catholicism Protestantism.

Then this is just as accurate!

34 posted on 04/04/2014 4:14:45 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: verga
Yes we all know that is what the prots do, you didn’t have to emphasize it in red.

It sounds like you are mocking the Lord's words because they are in red.

35 posted on 04/04/2014 4:49:39 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: boatbums
Then this is just as accurate!

Documentation please. Oh I forgot you guys never do.

36 posted on 04/04/2014 5:42:18 PM PDT by verga (Poor spiritual health is often manifested with poor physical health.)
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To: Weiss White

It astonishes me that an Episcopal bishop would WANT such a Catholic priest! I suppose it is possible that questioning a Church discipline can lead a priest to question and then abandon Catholic doctrine, but so many of the most famous cases are plainly the result of a refusal to abandon sin (Alberto Cutie, Jim McGreevey) or being kicked out (Matthew Fox).


37 posted on 04/04/2014 6:39:28 PM PDT by dangus
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To: verga
Documentation please. Oh I forgot you guys never do.

Oh, we do plenty. You guys just refuse to ever read or go to the links to read further. And, as for former Protestant ministers who kvetch (your word) about Protestantism, I give you three who were already mentioned here: Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, Dwight Longenecker. Do I need to link to some of their kvetching or will you just answer back that they aren't kvetching at all? Mighty subjective, I'd say.

38 posted on 04/04/2014 9:29:25 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: verga
Never heard Longenecker, but you have obviously never listened to Hahn or Grodi. They sing the glory the truth found in the Catholic Church they never, read NEVER speak badly of Protestantism. Just once I would like to meet a protestant that doesn’t feel the need to bear false witness. Feel free to have the last word. I sure it will make you feel superior.

Like I said, their names were already mentioned in this thread. You really should knock off impugning everyone who disagrees with you as liars (bearing false witness, yes, I know what it means). You make your stab and then retreat with an attempt to "poison the well" by pronouncing a rebuttal as "having the last word" and doing so as making me "feel superior". What exactly have YOU been doing this whole time but asserting superiority because of your religion and those who you boast of who converted? This is truly a tactic of childish and cowardly men.

Scott Hahn's missives are frequently posted here by Catholics and I have YET to read one where he doesn't speak badly of his former faith. Let's not forget that you were the one who challenged me to name former Protestants who "kvetched" about Protestantism. I gave them to you, and as expected, you denied they fit the bill. You join a small group who denies that there is EVER anti-Protestant comments on the RF. Examine your own conscience and actions.

40 posted on 04/05/2014 1:12:21 PM PDT by boatbums (Simul justis et peccator.)
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To: ottbmare

Not really a problem. I admire them for overcoming Catholic “constraints”. Mostly, I dislike the duplicity of rules in the Catholic church.


41 posted on 04/08/2014 5:58:31 AM PDT by REPANDPROUDOFIT (I think I'm a Republican, but (watching our representatives) I can't quite figure out what that is!)
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