Posted on 04/14/2014 9:05:44 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
I was already reading Aesop's fables and I found it there...
Constantine appointed himself judge over the hearings taking place against the heresy of the religions who refused to bond with Constantine and his Roman religion...And of course, they were all found guilty...And the sentence was death...
Luk_1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
We already have a word for cousin...
Mar_6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
We already have a word for kin...
Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
Sister, like brother means natural brother/sister or ecclesiastical brother or sister...
Well he certainly didn't use the word Primogeniture either...
RE: Primo Genitus
According to Google translate, it also means First Born.
So Jesus had 500 brothers, and Abraham was the brother of Lot
Get real
Jesus had brothers?1. The Meaning of Brother
The first thing to understand is that the term brother (Gk. adelphos) has a broader meaning than uterine brothers. It can mean a biological brother, but it can also mean an extended relative, or even a spiritual brother.
Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:
“So Abram said to Lot, “Let’s not have any quarreling between you and me, or between your herdsmen and mine, for we are brothers” (Gen 13:8, NIV; see also 14:12).Because of the Bible’s broad semantic range of “brother,” we can rest assured that although St. Paul writes, “[Jesus] appeared to more than five hundred…brothers at the same time” (1 Cor. 15:6), we need not infer from this verse that Mary gave birth to more than 500 children!2. Children of Mary?
These “brothers” are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
3. Other Women Named Mary
James and Joseph (also called Joses), who are called Jesus’ “brothers” (Mark 6:3) are indeed the children of Mary—Just not Mary, the mother of Jesus.
After St. Matthew’s account of the crucifixion and death of Jesus, he writes:
“There were also many women there, looking on from afar, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him; among who were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.” (Matt. 27:56; see also Mark 15:40).4. Consensus of the Early ChurchThe earliest explanation of the “brothers” of the Lord is found in a document known as the Protoevangelium of James, which was written around A.D. 150. It speaks of Mary as a consecrated virgin since her youth, and of St. Joseph as an elderly widower with children who was chosen to be Mary’s spouse for the purposes of guarding and protecting her while respecting her vow of virginity. Though this document is not on the level of Sacred Scripture, it was written very early, and it may contain accurate historical traditions.
Allow me to limit myself to three quotes from the early Church:
Athanasius of AlexandriaThus the same Church today affirm:“Therefore let those who deny that the Son is from the Father by nature and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh of Mary Ever-Virgin [Four Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 (c. A.D. 360)].
St. Jerome
“You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more that Joseph himself, on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born [Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary 21 (A.D. 383)].
Pope St. Leo I
“The origin is different but the nature alike: not by intercourse with man but by the power of God was it brought about: for a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and a Virgin she remained [Sermons 22:2 (A.D. 450)].
Jesus is Mary’s only son, but her spiritual motherhood extends to all men whom indeed he came to save: “The Son whom she brought forth is he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren, that is, the faithful in whose generation and formation she co-operates with a mother’s love (Catechism of the Catholic Church 501).
I was already reading Aesop’s fables and I found it there...
that explains a lot, next we will be hearing the germans bombed pearl harbor in 1941.............
Paul and Christ’s teaching on this are clear. There can be a benefit to remaining single and serving God for both men and women. Now this may not fit with your understanding of the Torah or with your religious beliefs, but that is what is written from the teaching of Christ and Paul.
Paul went into detail on the subject and said that there was no general command to remain single (though there were commands about whom one could marry), but rather that remaining single was permitted and being married was permitted. Christians are allowed to stay single or get married. If they stay single, they must be celibate. If they marry, they must marry another Christian.
If you believe God wants all of His followers to marry, fine. There are more significant issues of faith distinguishing traditional Christianity from modern Judaism.
There was a time when Christianity was largely regarded as a sect of Judaism. After the diaspora and later, after people persecuted Jews under the banner of Christendom, Christianity became a predominantly Gentile religious system, and both Judaism and Christendom began to splinter into various sects. What seems to be common among them is how each one thinks they most faithfully represent the original tenets of their faith.
If I only believed the Hebrew scriptures and did not accept the Greek scriptures we call the New Testament, I would be inclined to agree with your point of view. God said it was not good for man to be alone, so He made Eve. The New Testament does not contradict this as a general principle, but clarifies that there are exceptions to the rule. The Hebrew scriptures support this as well:
Isaiah 56:3-7
Do not let the son of the foreigner
Who has joined himself to the Lord
Speak, saying,
“The Lord has utterly separated me from His people”;
Nor let the eunuch say,
“Here I am, a dry tree.”
For thus says the Lord:
“To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths,
And choose what pleases Me,
And hold fast My covenant,
Even to them I will give in My house
And within My walls a place and a name
Better than that of sons and daughters;
I will give them an everlasting name
That shall not be cut off.
“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Christ quoted from this passage after overturning the money-changers’ tables and driving out the sacrificial animals from the temple courtyard. This was the only part of the temple in which Gentile proselytes could be present, but the Jewish leaders had turned it into a stinking zoo. There was no place for Gentile worshipers, but Christ reproved this before it was fashionable to oppose racism. In fact, Christ’s reproof against the racism of the contemporary Jewish leaders was what got Him into the most trouble with them.
The Messiah was expected by these contemporaries to liberate Israel from the oppression of Rome. Expectations were high because many interpreted Daniel 9 to mean that the arrival of the Messiah had to take place then. But Jesus came proclaiming a different kind of liberation and salvation. Even His own disciples expected Him to lead them into a military victory. After all, what army could stand against someone with the power to raise the dead? He spoke about wars and war strategy. His disciples asked when He would establish His kingdom. So, when He died on the cross for the sins of mankind (or Daniel says, He was cut off but not for Himself), it was not something they expected (even though He had told them beforehand and it was written in the scriptures). And when He rose from the dead and His disciples were eye witnesses to this, they were also surprised to be told that the Gospel of the Kingdom must be preached to the Samaritans and Gentiles. The Gospel proclaimed this message with the commands to repent and believe for salvation from our sins.
Paul wrote a great deal explaining how God’s plan involved mysteries concealed in the Hebrew scriptures. To the modern Jew these may seem like a made up religion. It does not seem to line up with the understanding of the heroes of their scriptures like Abraham, Moses, and David. Did God break His covenants with these men? No. Are the Jews God’s chosen people? Yes. Then why does it seem they have been cast away in favor of the Gentiles under the doctrines of Christianity?
It is because God chose Israel to bring salvation to the whole world. Did God pick Israel to be His people because of their exceptional wisdom, numbers, strength, or righteousness? No.
Deuteronomy 7:6-8
“For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Deuteronomy 9:4-7, and 13
“Do not think in your heart, after the Lord your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is driving them out from before you. It is not because of your righteousness or the uprightness of your heart that you go in to possess their land, but because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord your God drives them out from before you, and that He may fulfill the word which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore understand that the Lord your God is not giving you this good land to possess because of your righteousness, for you are a stiff-necked people.
“Remember! Do not forget how you provoked the Lord your God to wrath in the wilderness. From the day that you departed from the land of Egypt until you came to this place, you have been rebellious against the Lord. “Furthermore the Lord spoke to me, saying, ‘I have seen this people, and indeed they are a stiff-necked people....’”
Israel was chosen like Jonah. God knew Jonah would run the opposite direction from where God sent Him. So God had already, in His sovereignty, prepared a storm, a fish, a vine, and a worm to teach Jonah and us His heart. Nineveh repented because they learned how the God of Israel was stronger than Dagon when they learned Jonah had been swallowed by the whale and was rescued from it by God. This would not have happened if God had picked a more cooperative prophet to deliver the message. Jonah’s disobedience cost him a price, but God used it to save a city which would have otherwise been destroyed. God can turn evil into good, just as He did with the evil Joseph’s brothers did to him. The sign of the prophet Jonah was fulfilled in Christ. Jewish and Gentile leaders (figuratively representing mankind) cooperated to put Christ on the cross, but this was done according to the sovereignty of God to fulfill all of the promises, covenants and prophecies since the world began. And He transformed this great evil and curse into His blessing and goodness and mercy for all nations.
God cares for people. He does not want people to remain in their sin and perish. God chose Israel to be the guardians of His law. He chose Israel to be the nation into which Messiah would be born. He also knew that Israel’s stubbornness and rebellion would result the message of salvation being spread around the world. He knew that His blessing and favor on the Gentiles would provoke Israel to jealousy, much as Jonah was offended that God did not destroy Nineveh as He had intended. Yet, God will soon bring all of Israel to salvation as He has promised (as in Daniel 9). Until then, He always has had a faithful remnant among Israel. That remnant today is made up of Jews who recognize the Messiah to be Jesus, Who is the Savior of the world.
How can any Christian understand what Paul was saying when they don’t even know the questions posed to him? Was he talking to Jews or non-Jews? How can they interpret his words correctly if they haven’t even studied Torah like Paul or Christ did? When Christ says something kabbalistic (or anything else) how do Christians know how to interpret it when they don’t even know Kabbalah? They just make up their own interpretations from what I have seen.
You gotta study Torah from the Hebrew to understand what they were saying.
When did Christianity come into existence exactly? How do you define one? Because they believe that a rabbi can be God? No man can be God and God cannot be man. If any one tells you that it’s a plain out lie. Plenty of false messiahs come around from time to time claiming to be God. In the end times the false messiah that will be propelled to the world stage at the end of days will claim he is God. That’s a no-no to do such according to God Himself.
Just because you overcome death with the help of God does not make you God. Just because you have the Spirit of God on your shoulders does not make you God. Messiah does not equal God. Ask Moses. He was the first Messiah and he never, ever claimed to be God. Some Jews wanted to deify him while he was alive but they knew the rules. Even some Jews today within Chasidism who believe that Rebbe Schneerson was the Messiah, who passed away in 1994, believed that he should be accredited with being God. Ain’t happening.
You simply cannot put God in a box. He is infinite, omniscient, omnipresent, indivisible, so on and so forth. He is Spirit as defined by Judaism and defined by your New Testament in John 4:24. It doesn’t define Him as man or anything physical. But once you go down the path of saying one man can be God it opens the door to anyone claiming they can be God or a god, too. Just ask the Mormons.
He is so close because He is Spirit. This gives Him the chance to have a neshamah-to-neshamah (spirit-to-spirit) relationship with any and all here on Earth. That’s closer than anything physical that can happen. When I say, “be real” does that mean be more physical? No! Of course not. It means be truthful with me. Truth is not physical. It never has been and never will be. God is the truth.
Torah is the original Good News. Study it and you’ll understand why. Nothing can replace it and nothing can substitute for it - not even the New Testament.
There is only one God, one Torah, one people to lead the rest of humanity back to the truth. And no man can be savior of the world. Only God can be that because He has said so.
If and when the Messiah shows up ask him if he is God. The real Messiah will say no.
Take Genesis 13:8 for example. Here the word brother is being used to describe the relationship between Abraham and Lot, who were not biological brothers but uncle and nephew:
You failed right off the bat...You can not take the definition of the Hebrew word 'âch and apply it to the Greek word adelphos and sister in the Hebrew (Irregular feminine of H251; a sister (used very widely (like H250), literally and figuratively): - (an-) other, sister, together.) with sister in the Greek (Feminine of G80; a sister (natural or ecclesiastical): - sister.)...
Get real
Jesus had 4 natural brothers and 500 spiritual brothers...
The concept of Christ’s deity is the most difficult for many Jews to accept. The idea of a man being God is foreign to the Jewish mind, as history is full of men who would be gods. Only, in this case, it is God Who became a man. It seems unthinkable that the Sovereign Ruler of the universe would be willing to stoop so low.
David marveled that God, Who is infinite, would even take note of man.
Psalm 8:4
What is man that You are mindful of him,
And the son of man that You visit him?
But this is the distance God’s mercy was willing to traverse. Again, David expresses this amazing aspect of God’s character.
Psalm 103:11
For as the heavens are high above the earth,
So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him;
Because His mercy is this great, it was necessary for Him to stoop this great distance.
God is aware and concerned for things great and small in the universe He made. He made a covenant regarding Israel of which He said would cease to be a nation if one could count the grains of sand on the sea shore or number the hosts of Heaven. If a man (or the Devil) could count these, God could verify the number to be right or wrong because He knows the number. Not only does He know the number, but He has given each host a unique name.
Psalm 147:4
He counts the number of the stars;
He calls them all by name.
And though He has ordained this vast universe, He does not ignore the small things.
Psalm 84:3
Even the sparrow has found a home,
And the swallow a nest for herself,
Where she may lay her young—
Even Your altars, O Lord of hosts,
My King and my God.
Consider the Shema.
Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!
The title and name of God is said three times. This speaks of three aspects of God’s being in one unity. “One” here, is unity from a multiplicity of parts. This is the same unity of a husband and wife, the parts of the tabernacle, and the two sticks in Ezekiel 37 that represent fragmented Israel being restored to one nation. It means we must worship God in His totality, i.e. all of Who He truly is, not just the aspects the we want to worship. Otherwise we are making God into an idol in our hearts.
“Our God” is Eloheinu, being derived from Elohim, the plural form of Elohah. Elohim, plural, is also used in creation.
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Who is this “Us” and “Our” that the scriptures identify as the Creator? These terms advise that the parts or aspects of our One God are distinct Persons. It is not that we worship gods, but that our One God is comprised of three Persons. Therefore He can converse with Himself and say “let Us” do so and so. Remember that God alone is Creator.
Nehemiah 9:6
You alone are the Lord;
You have made heaven,
The heaven of heavens, with all their host,
The earth and everything on it,
The seas and all that is in them,
And You preserve them all.
The host of heaven worships You.
So the “Us” in Genesis 1 can not be God plus some other separate entity or being. “Us” must refer to God alone.
In considering God being One, and that we must worship no other gods but all of the true God (and not just the parts we fashion in our minds as the god we prefer or like), observe how the different persons of God are characterized.
One aspect of God is that He is Spirit, as you mentioned already. Physical eyes do not see spiritual things. So, there is an aspect of God that CANNOT be seen.
Genesis 1:2
And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
Numbers 11:25
Then the Lord came down in the cloud, and spoke to him, and took of the Spirit that was upon him, and placed the same upon the seventy elders; and it happened, when the Spirit rested upon them, that they prophesied, although they never did so again.
Job 33:4
The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.
Deuteronomy 4:12
And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice.
There is an aspect of God that if a man sees, he will die.
Exodus 33:20
But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”
And there is an aspect of God that can be seen by a man without being fatal.
Exodus 33:11a
So the Lord spoke to Moses face to face, as a man speaks to his friend.
Genesis 18:1-2
Then the Lord appeared to him by the terebinth trees of Mamre, as he was sitting in the tent door in the heat of the day. So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground
Here, the Lord appeared to Abraham as a man along with two other men that were angels. (These are the two angels that went into Sodom and entered Lot’s house.) Not only did Abraham see God as a man, but this “man” ate the food that Abraham gave to Him.
Genesis 32:24 and 30
Then Jacob was left alone; and a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day... So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”
Again, God appeared in the form of a man. A similar thing happened in Judges 13. Sampson’s parents were visited by a “man” which was actually God. His identity was hidden but then later revealed when they offered a sacrifice to God. Then they were afraid of dying because they realized Who had appeared to them.
So, God is one, a unity of multiple parts, aspects or persons. We see three distinct persons of God in relation to human sight. Further, we see that God can take on the form of a man. So it is not impossible for God to reveal and manifest Himself in the form of a man. This is what He did when He came as Emmanuel (God with us).
God has progressively revealed Himself to mankind. He was identified first as our Creator. Then He identified Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Then He called Himself “I am”. Now, in this last dispensation of time, God has revealed Himself as “Father” through sending His Son. The Son is the express, exact, perfect image of the Father. No one has seen the Father, except the Son. But the Father is revealed in the Son. God made man in His image and after His likeness, but this image was marred by sin. This image is restored in God’s Son, Jesus Christ. The visible person of God in the Hebrew scriptures was the pre-incarnate Son of God, called Jesus in the New Testament.
Thanks for posting this.
You are just making this up, the 'natural' part, adding to Scripture!
Scripture identifies ONLY Jesus as a child of Mary:
On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there John 2:1
All these with one accord devoted themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren Acts 1:14
NO ONE ELSE is ever identified as a child of Mary in the Bible. You are just making things up, and adding to Scripture.
That’s right. So when Luke used a term in the 1st Century, it seems logical that he intended its meaning to be that understood during the 1st Century, not the 21st Century.
You did not answer the question. The question was "Show me in Scripture where anyone other than Jesus is referred to as the Child of Mary." You cannot answer this, but you make up things to prove your man-made belief. Your belief is not found in Scripture.
Scripture tells us Jesus had 500 brothers, so when men are referrred to as His brother it is not at all surprising. But NOBODY besides Jesus is referred to in Scripture as the child of Mary. And Abraham and Lot were called 'brothers' so we know the term brother throughout Scripture does not mean son of the same woman.
Exactly. A really big OR. And how do you know from Scripture when brother is natural or ecclesiastical? You can't in all cases. We know Jesus had 500 'brothers' so we know they were not all natural. And we know Abraham and Lot were brothers, but really uncle and nephew. We also know Scripture names ONLY JESUS as a child of Mary.
You are just guessing or making things up and adding your man-made beliefs to Scripture.
Psa 69:8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children.
A Psalm of Jesus...
It's really sad that you guys have to protect your religion from the bible...Your religion twists, turns, perverts, deletes, adds, denigrates, corrupts and ignores scripture to survive its own rubric...
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/06/24/restoring-glory-long-abused-ancient-babylon/
The practice of spring time egg rolling and quick like a bunny orgies has been practiced for eons. Sadly Christians picked up the pagans rituals and dressed them around our Lord and Savior. Rome sure was not the first but they sure did not keep the leavening out of their doctrine. But they sure are not alone in this practice.
Jeremiah 3:8 (A history lesson that still applies to this day.) And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery (spiritually speaking) I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Wonder when did this 'wedding' take place, spiritually speaking of course?
This is how one knows that 'grace' does not cover spiritual adultery/idolatry. First commandment Exodus 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, Which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
(Still the very same I am. Christ is the path out of bondage.)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
Any one claiming this Commandment is no longer in effect has other gods before Him. And 'grace' of salvation is not given to law breakers. Notice I did not say keeping the law is salvation, it is that salvation is not offered to any who have other gods.
Paul says Christ became our Passover. Nothing about sun-rise services, bunny cakes, or rolling easter eggs.
Oh, best I quote where Paul gave this instruction. ICorinthians 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
No one else could be the Sacrifical Lamb but God with us.
You are just making this up. Show me in Scripture what supports this man-made belief you hold.
I have already given you the citations wherein Mary was with her boys, the brothers of Christ. They had to be her boys, literally, because the only way they were blood related to Christ would be through Mary. There is nothing 'extra' spiritual given in the text to fill the claim these boys were only brothers in spirit. That is a tradition of men made up to claim Mary is a deity. It really is no big deal.
I imagine there is great shock when Christians return to the Maker and find out Mary is one of them. No special throne, or a wireless to earth to hear prayers to her.
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