VANITY - I hear people talking about the Bible says, "not to judge" - what say you?

Did I say this is a vanity? | 4/20/2014 | STOCKPIRATE - vanity

[stockpirate]

I am hearing a lot of people say that the Bible teaches that we are not to judge someone over any issue, they say "God will judge"....

I don't think the Bible teaches it the they are saying and they also say that this is what their preacher teaches....

I'd like to hear from my fellow freepers on this...

Have a blessed Easter...

[matginzac]

You said that so well...excellent...

[mjp]

Justice is first making a moral judgment about someone or something, and then giving that person what he deserves in accordance with that judgement.You can't have justice without judgments.

Making moral judgments about a person's character is a requirement for life proper to a rational being. It could make the difference between life or death.

[Doomonyou]

Context, Hoss, Context.

[jmacusa]

But we can judge sin.

[Jonty30]

It’s a two-fold answer, if you read Christ’s parable fully. The first is that you shouldn’t be concerned about other people’s sins, only your own. However, if you see the need to serve in terms of pointing out somebody’s sins, you’d better be walking the walk because will be looking to see if you’re consistent in your speech and actions.

[Doomonyou]

15 “If your brother sins against you,[a] go and rebuke him in private.[b] If he listens to you, you have won your brother. 16 But if he won’t listen, take one or two more with you, so that by the testimony[c] of two or three witnesses every fact may be established.[d]

[rollo tomasi]

"When we judge others, we are effectively saying that we don't trust God to see it and resolve it the way we think it should be done."

So open adultery, lying, fornication, sexual immorality, apostasy, etc. should run rampant in the Church?

How about leaders ordering you to defy God's commands?

Also, does God wants us to be Spiritually gutless assuming He will take care of converting "free willers" in the Church?

And finally, does God want us to worship under false teachers?

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone (Judging others, hmmm). If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Contradicts your quote in bold at the top, hmmm... What exactly does "judge" mean in the different CONTEXT throughout the Word? We are to be wise while building strong foundations, not fools and excusing behaviors based on Spiritual impotence.

[rollo tomasi]

What is the context of Matthew 7? I get hypocrisy, not discernment because if this is strictly discernment, then Jesus was one *hypocritical* teacher based on what he says later in Matthew.

[Doomonyou]

What is the context of Matthew 7? I get hypocrisy, not discernment because if this is strictly discernment, then Jesus was one *hypocritical* teacher based on what he says later in Matthew.

21 “I did one work, and you are all amazed,” Jesus answered. 22 “Consider this: Moses has given you circumcision—not that it comes from Moses but from the fathers—and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. 23 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath so that the law of Moses won’t be broken, are you angry at Me because I made a man entirely well on the Sabbath? 24 Stop judging according to outward appearances; rather judge according to righteous judgment.”

This is the context of John 7.

Mathew 7:

7 “Do not judge, so that you won’t be judged. 2 For with the judgment you use,[a] you will be judged, and with the measure you use,[b] it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye but don’t notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and look, there’s a log in your eye? 5 Hypocrite! First take the log out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. 6 Don’t give what is holy to dogs or toss your pearls before pigs, or they will trample them with their feet, turn, and tear you to pieces.

Can't see the difference?

[Hoodat]

So open adultery, lying, fornication, sexual immorality, apostasy, etc. should run rampant in the Church?

The statement I made above has absolutely no connection whatsoever to the question you posed. I am truly at a loss as to how easily you confused 'judgment' with 'sin'. But to answer your question, it already does.

Contradicts your quote in bold at the top, hmmm...

Making another person aware of their sin is not the same as judging them. Not even close.

When you pass judgment on another, you are effectively passing a sentence upon that person. Pointing out the sin of another out of love in order that they may turn away from that sin is not what judgment is.

[Hoodat]

I am aware of the scripture, but I'm not getting your point. Nowhere in any of that does it say to judge. It is an exercise done solely for the benefit of the one doing the wrong.

[rollo tomasi]

One was dealing with superficial judgment and the other lip service/fraudulent judgment. Neither were righteous judgments which was the point of the lessons.

[Doomonyou]

I am aware of the scripture, but I'm not getting your point. Nowhere in any of that does it say to judge. It is an exercise done solely for the benefit of the one doing the wrong.

It looks like to me some of the arguments made above are more of the "turn the other cheek" nature and that seems to point to not to say anything to someone who has done wrong and just shut up. We are not the ultimate "judge" in the big picture, but we are to correct a brother who is in sin, if, (and it's a big if), we have our own house in order.

Christ was not timid when it came to correcting and trying to save sinners (which we all have in common, sinning that is).

[Doomonyou]

One was “leaders” arguing with Christ, and the other was Christ’s instructions to us.

[rollo tomasi]

Condemning and judging are interchangeable. How do you know one is sinning if there is no judgment involved in the first place? With the eyes/ears etc... correct?

Yet, only God can condemn the soul through His own judgment by piercing through individuals heart.

To prevent confusion, witnesses and a Godly Church is needed for correction and if the sinner is *unrepentant* (Key word), purged from the flock. However the key is righteousness. If one is engaging in the same behavior as the person being purged, then they are in trouble.

I agree with your point outside the Church. This "judgment" is strictly internal among the Christian sects. Which is why a strong Church becomes a beacon for society, but without a strong Church, especially a hypocritical one, open to ridicule and mockery.

[Hoodat]

We are not the ultimate "judge" in the big picture, but we are to correct a brother who is in sin, if, (and it's a big if), we have our own house in order. Christ was not timid when it came to correcting and trying to save sinners (which we all have in common, sinning that is).

Agreed. However, I was addressing judging which has nothing at all to do with correcting a brother. And even after we go through the correcting process to the point of getting the church involved, and that person still refuses to open his/her eyes to the truth of the situation, we still are not to judge that person. Instead, we are to turn it over to God and pray for that person out of love regardless of how much that person has harmed us or others.

[Hoodat]

How do you know one is sinning if there is no judgment involved in the first place?

When did it become my job to determine if someone else is sinning?

[Pollster1]

Probably the most useful passage in the Bible for answering challenging questions like this, where different sets of guidance must be weighed is:

Ecclesiastes 3: "To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven: A time to be born, And a time to die . . . A time for war, And a time of peace.

Similarly, I believe there is a time to judge and a time to withhold judgement. The Bible gives us a huge amount of guidance on how to live our lives - too much to follow all at once (is it time for "an eye for an eye" or time to "turn the other cheek"; is it time to put up our swords or time to sell our cloak and buy a sword or two?). God's Word gives us guidance and things to balance, but deciding between competing commands is (in my opinion) often best done through prayer. We know our motives. If we go to the Bible muttering, "an eye for an eye, I'm going to find that and follow it", We're off track. If we pray thoughtfully, I expect to come away from prayer with a good answer, often the best possible answer.

Someone who quotes the Bible to serve the Devil's agenda is off track, and we usually know there is something wrong, we're just too shy to stand up against scripture, even when it is misquoted or taken out of context. The Bible does say that we should forgive and not judge, but it also says almost but not quite the opposite in other passages. The trick is to read and pray, read some more, and pray a lot more.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

There are three versions regarding "Judging." In one sense it seems to refer to refusing to condemn; i.e. the woman taken in adultery. The last version "judge righteous judgement" seems to refer to "judging" proper.

It makes no sense to condemn a person as a murderer who judges a person as a murder when in fact the person being judged is a murder.

[machogirl]

I haven’t gotten below your post yet, but this resonates with me. There are many with questionable lifestyles/behavior that IMHO misuse this verse. I believe that they are intentionally deflecting off their behavior/choices by using this. They are intentionally confusing “criticism” with “judging” so that their choices are not condemned (condemn may not be the best word to use).