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How to Become a Catholic (Explanation of the Inquiry and RCIA process)
CatholicAnswers ^ | August 10, 2004 | CatholicAnswers

Posted on 04/21/2014 8:51:13 PM PDT by Salvation

How to Become a Catholic


Becoming Catholic is one of life’s most profound and joyous experiences. Some are blessed enough to receive this great gift while they are infants, and, over time, they recognize the enormous grace that has been bestowed on them. Others enter the Catholic fold when they are older children or adults. This tract examines the joyful process by which one becomes a Catholic. 

A person is brought into full communion with the Catholic Church through reception of the three sacraments of Christian initiation—baptism, confirmation, and the holy Eucharist—but the process by which one becomes a Catholic can take different forms. 

A person who is baptized in the Catholic Church becomes a Catholic at that moment. One’s initiation is deepened by confirmation and the Eucharist, but one becomes a Catholic at baptism. This is true for children who are baptized Catholic (and receive the other two sacraments later) and for adults who are baptized, confirmed, and receive the Eucharist at the same time. 

Those who have been validly baptized outside the Church become Catholics by making a profession of the Catholic faith and being formally received into the Church. This is normally followed immediately by confirmation and the Eucharist. 

Before a person is ready to be received into the Church, whether by baptism or by profession of faith, preparation is necessary. The amount and form of this preparation depends on the individual’s circumstance. The most basic division in the kind of preparation needed is between those who are unbaptized and those who have already become Christian through baptism in another church. 

For adults and children who have reached the age of reason (age seven), entrance into the Church is governed by the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults (RCIA), sometimes called the Order of Christian Initiation for Adults (OCIA). 

Preparation for the Unbaptized

Preparation for reception into the Church begins with the inquiry stage, in which the unbaptized person begins to learn about the Catholic faith and begins to decide whether to embrace it. 

The first formal step to Catholicism begins with the rite of reception into the order of catechumens, in which the unbaptized express their desire and intention to become Christians. "Catechumen" is a term the early Christians used to refer to those preparing to be baptized and become Christians. 

The period of the catechumenate varies depending on how much the catechumen has learned and how ready he feels to take the step of becoming a Christian. However, the catechumenate often lasts less than a year. 

The catechumenate’s purpose is to provide the catechumens with a thorough background in Christian teaching. "A thoroughly comprehensive catechesis on the truths of Catholic doctrine and moral life, aided by approved catechetical texts, is to be provided during the period of the catechumenate" (U.S. Conference of Bishops, National Statutes for the Catechumenate, Nov. 11, 1986). The catechumenate also is intended to give the catechumens the opportunity to reflect upon and become firm in their desire to become Catholic, and to show that they are ready to take this serious and joyful step (cf. Luke 14:27–33; 2 Pet. 2:20–22). 

The second formal step is taken with the rite of election, in which the catechumens’ names are written in a book of those who will receive the sacraments of initiation. At the rite of election, the catechumen again expresses the desire and intention to become a Christian, and the Church judges that the catechumen is ready to take this step. Normally, the rite of election occurs on the first Sunday of Lent, the forty-day period of preparation for Easter. 

After the rite of election, the candidates undergo a period of more intense reflection, purification, and enlightenment, in which they deepen their commitment to repentance and conversion. During this period the catechumens, now known as the elect, participate in several further rituals. 

The three chief rituals, known as scrutinies, are normally celebrated at Mass on the third, fourth, and fifth Sundays of Lent. The scrutinies are rites for self-searching and repentance. They are meant to bring out the qualities of the catechumen’s soul, to heal those qualities which are weak or sinful, and to strengthen those that are positive and good. 

During this period, the catechumens are formally presented with the Apostles’ Creed and the Lord’s Prayer, which they will recite on the night they are initiated. 

The initiation itself usually occurs on the Easter Vigil, the evening before Easter Day. That evening a special Mass is celebrated at which the catechumens are baptized, then given confirmation, and finally receive the holy Eucharist. At this point the catechumens become Catholics and are received into full communion with the Church. 

Ideally the bishop oversees the Easter Vigil service and confers confirmation upon the catechumens, but often—due to large distances or numbers of catechumens—a local parish priest will perform the rites. 

The final state of Christian initiation is known as mystagogy, in which the new Christians are strengthened in the faith by further instruction and become more deeply rooted in the local Catholic community. The period of mystagogy normally lasts throughout the Easter season (the fifty days between Easter and Pentecost Sunday). 

For the first year of their life as Christians, those who have been received are known as neophytes or "new Christians." 

Preparation for Christians

The means by which those who have already been validly baptized become part of the Church differs considerably from that of the unbaptized. 

Because they have already been baptized, they are already Christians; they are, therefore, not catechumens. Because of their status as Christians, the Church is concerned that they not be confused with those who are in the process of becoming Christians. 

"Those who have already been baptized in another church or ecclesial community should not be treated as catechumens or so designated. Their doctrinal and spiritual preparation for reception into full Catholic communion should be determined according to the individual case, that is, it should depend on the extent to which the baptized person has led a Christian life within a community of faith and been appropriately catechized to deepen his or her inner adherence to the Church" (NSC 30). 

For those who were baptized but who have never been instructed in the Christian faith or lived as Christians, it is appropriate for them to receive much of the same instruction in the faith as catechumens, but they are still not catechumens and are not to be referred to as such (NSC 3). As a result, they are not to participate in the rites intended for catechumens, such as the scrutinies. Even "[t]he rites of presentation of the creed, the Lord’s Prayer, and the book of the Gospels are not proper except for those who have received no Christian instruction and formation" (NSC 31). 

For those who have been instructed in the Christian faith and have lived as Christians, the situation is different. The U.S. Conference of Bishops states, "Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate" (NSC 31). For this reason, they should not share in the same, full RCIA programs that catechumens do. 

The timing of their reception into the Church also is different. The U.S. Conference of Bishops states, "It is preferable that reception into full communion not take place at the Easter Vigil lest there be any confusion of such baptized Christians with the candidates for baptism, possible misunderstanding of or even reflection upon the sacrament of baptism celebrated in another church or ecclesial community . . . " (NSC 33). 

Rather than being received on Easter Vigil, "[t]he reception of candidates into the communion of the Catholic Church should ordinarily take place at the Sunday Eucharist of the parish community, in such a way that it is understood that they are indeed Christian believers who have already shared in the sacramental life of the Church and are now welcomed into the Catholic Eucharistic community . . ." (NSC 32). 

Christians coming into the Catholic Church must discuss with their pastor and/or bishop the amount of instruction needed and the time of their reception. 

Peace with God

The sacrament of baptism removes all sins committed prior to it, but since Christians have already been baptized, it is necessary for them to confess mortal sins committed since baptism before receiving confirmation and the Eucharist. 

In some cases, this can be difficult due to a large number of years between the Christian’s baptism and reception into the Catholic Church. In such cases, the candidate should confess the mortal sins he can remember by kind and, to the extent possible, indicate how often such sins were committed. As always with the sacrament of reconciliation, the absolution covers any mortal sins that could not be remembered, so long as the recipient intended to repent of all mortal sins. 

Christians coming into the Church should receive the sacrament of reconciliation before their reception into the Church (there is no established point for when they should do this) to ensure that they are in a state of grace when they are received and confirmed. Their formation in the faith should stress that frequent confession is part of Catholic life: "The celebration of the sacrament of reconciliation with candidates for reception into full communion is to be carried out at a time prior to and distinct from the celebration of the rite of reception. As part of the formation of such candidates, they should be encouraged in the frequent celebration of this sacrament" (NSC 36). 

The Christian fully enters the Church by profession of faith and formal reception. For the profession of faith, the candidate says, "I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God." 

The bishop or priest then formally receives the Christian into the Church by saying, "[Name], the Lord receives you into the Catholic Church. His loving kindness has led you here, so that in the unity of the Holy Spirit you may have full communion with us in the faith that you have professed in the presence of his family." 

The bishop or priest then normally administers the sacrament of confirmation and celebrates the holy Eucharist, giving the new Catholic the Eucharist for the first time. 

Reception in Special Cases

In some situations, there may be doubts whether a person’s baptism was valid. All baptisms are assumed valid, regardless of denomination, unless after serious investigation there is reason to doubt that the candidate was baptized with water and the Trinitarian formula (". . . in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"), or that the minister or recipient of baptism did not intend it to be an actual baptism. 

If there are doubts about the validity of a person’s baptism (or whether the person was baptized at all), then the candidate will be given a conditional baptism (one with the form ". . . if you are not already baptized, I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"). 

"If conditional baptism . . . seems necessary, this must be celebrated privately rather than at a public liturgical assembly of the community and with only those limited rites which the diocesan bishop determines. The reception into full communion should take place later at the Sunday Eucharist of the community" (NSC 37). 

Another special case concerns those who have been baptized as Catholics but who were not brought up in the faith or who have not received the sacraments of confirmation and the Eucharist. "Although baptized adult Catholics who have never received catechetical instruction or been admitted to the sacraments of confirmation and Eucharist are not catechumens, some elements of the usual catechumenal formation are appropriate to their preparation for the sacraments, in accord with the norms of the ritual, Preparation of Uncatechized Adults for Confirmation and Eucharist" (NSC 25). 

Waiting for the Day!

It can be a time of anxious longing while one waits to experience the warm embrace of membership in the Church and to be immersed into Catholic society. This time of waiting and reflection is necessary, since becoming a Catholic is a momentous event. But waiting can be painful as one longs for the sacraments, especially the Eucharist, and the joys of Catholic life—the security that being a faithful Catholic bestows. Yet even before being received, those waiting to be fully incorporated already have a real relationship with the Church. 

For those who are already Christians, their baptism itself forms a certain sacramental relationship with the Church (cf. Vatican II, Unitatis Redintegratio 3; Catechism of the Catholic Church 1271). They are also joined to the Church by their intention to enter it, as are the unbaptized who intend to do so: "Catechumens who, moved by the Holy Spirit, desire with an explicit intention to be incorporated into the Church are by that very intention joined to her. With love and solicitude mother Church already embraces them as her own" (Vatican II, Lumen Gentium 14:3; CCC 1249). 

Thus, even before one is fully incorporated into the Church, one can enjoy the status of being recognized by the Church as one of her own, precious children. 

NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials 
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors. 
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004 

IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted. 
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; converts; rcia
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Many converts just experienced this process.

Welcome Home, one and all.

1 posted on 04/21/2014 8:51:13 PM PDT by Salvation
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To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; marshmallow; ...

Previous to Easter Vigil Ping!


2 posted on 04/21/2014 8:53:33 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
How to Become a Catholic (Explanation of the Inquiry and RCIA process)
Easter Rebirth [at the Easter Vigil]
Why Attend the Easter Vigil?
The RCIA Process -- The Rite of Acceptance
RITE OF ELECTION OF CATECHUMENS
Catholic Biblical Apologetics: The Process of Christian Initiation

How Does a Person Become a Catholic? [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: The RCIA Inquiry Stage In the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]
Beginning Catholic: A Strong Start in the Faith: The Catholic RCIA Stages [Ecumenical]
Lutheran Wife has questions before joining Catholic Church
Belleville Bishop Braxton in Brouhaha with his priests (title mine)
A Ramble through My "New Catholic" Wish List {RCIA referenced]
Help with RCIA (Vanity)
Catholic Liturgy - Funeral Masses for a Suicide And More on Confession for RCIA Candidates
Confession for RCIA Candidates And More on the Prayer of the Faithful
RCIA and Holy Saturday

3 posted on 04/21/2014 8:55:41 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

How to become a Christian:

Believe in God and his son that came to Earth to save your soul. He died for your sins. Not sure that it requires any religion but it does require belief...faith.


4 posted on 04/21/2014 9:23:33 PM PDT by Deagle (ues)
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To: Salvation

Show where Christ, asked every soul to follow Peter,the Liar. Show this truth, you proclaim as the Truth.


5 posted on 04/21/2014 9:29:05 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: RedHeeler

>>Show where Christ, asked every soul to follow Peter,the Liar. Show this truth, you proclaim as the Truth.<<

Strong assertion, backed by zero evidence.

I left the Church for differences in how we see the Universe. It appears you were hurt by one or more of Her representatives.

Liturgy is crystal clear “(Petros) upon this rock I shall build my church.”

IMHO, you should make peace with your anger and then approach this subject with a cool mind...


6 posted on 04/21/2014 9:36:17 PM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: freedumb2003

Thank you, wonderful being.


7 posted on 04/21/2014 9:38:41 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: Deagle; Salvation

Ageed Deagle,

One should be asking themselves: How does one become saved (by God) and have real salvation, not ‘How does one become a member of this or that church (which is useless)’. As an example (and not just in the Catholic Church, because this can happen in any “Church”) there was a transvestite that was on Jimmy Kimmel tonight and stated that He (she) had been to Mass on Easter, for all the real good it did their soul, they sure didn’t receive ‘Christ’ (One wonders if the priest gave this person their communion though..).

“For by Grace you have been saved through faith” and “18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” It is not ritual or religious rites that save a person, it is belief (faith) in what Christ has done, and none of our “work”.

-JS


8 posted on 04/21/2014 9:43:25 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Salvation

Abp John Francis Knoll, “Father Smith Instructs Jackson”. Great intro. But I ain’t Catholic. But anyone who may be curious....


9 posted on 04/21/2014 10:03:08 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: freedumb2003
Show where Christ, asked every soul to follow Peter,the Liar. Show this truth, you proclaim as the Truth. -RedHeeler

Strong assertion, backed by zero evidence. ...

...Liturgy is crystal clear “(Petros) upon this rock I shall build my church.” - 2003!

Your cult's liturgy may think more of Peter than many of us, maybe, but not stated as such in Holy Scripture, FD3. I won't bother to hash that our for the umpteenth time.

But, you ask for evidence, and I found it easily while looking at the Gospels. It can also be stated that Paul has a better calling because he rebuked Peter for trying to turn Gentiles into Jews! Peter didn't display any knowledge behind the power of Christ's sacrifice.

Mark 14: 66 While Peter was below in the courtyard, one of the servant girls of the high priest came by. 67 When she saw Peter warming himself, she looked closely at him.

“You also were with that Nazarene, Jesus,” she said.

68 But he denied it. “I don’t know or understand what you’re talking about,” he said, and went out into the entryway.

69 When the servant girl saw him there, she said again to those standing around, “This fellow is one of them.” 70 Again he denied it.

After a little while, those standing near said to Peter, “Surely you are one of them, for you are a Galilean.”

71 He began to call down curses, and he swore to them, “I don’t know this man you’re talking about.”

72 Immediately the rooster crowed the second time. Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: “Before the rooster crows twice you will disown me three times.” And he broke down and wept. ...

........

Galatians 2; 11 When Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray. 14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in front of them all, “You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs? 15 “We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16 know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in[d] Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. 17 “But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we Jews find ourselves also among the sinners, doesn’t that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, then I really would be a lawbreaker. 19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

10 posted on 04/21/2014 10:12:43 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Polls? Nah... they're for strippers and cross country skiers." -Sarah Palin)
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To: Salvation

Welcome home to my fellow members of the 2013-14 Tiber Swim Team! I’m glad to be here. Thanks be to God!


11 posted on 04/21/2014 10:44:51 PM PDT by RichInOC (...your newest purveyor of wit, laughter and the Popish creed.)
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To: Salvation

I prayed the prayer when I was in high school. And meant it. I did what I did Saturday night to put an exclamation point on that commitment. And if anything, I meant it even more. I believed it with all my heart and all my soul. I wouldn’t have done it otherwise. And I don’t think my Christian friends, Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox, would have wanted me to do it on any other terms.


12 posted on 04/21/2014 11:57:24 PM PDT by RichInOC (...your newest purveyor of wit, laughter and the Popish creed.)
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To: Salvation

Why not tell how to become a Christian instead of a Catholic? Being a Christian is a whole lot more important. Being Catholic does not save you just like being a Baptist, Methodist, etc doesn’t. It seems like y’all are more interested in numbers and not true believers in Jesus.


13 posted on 04/22/2014 12:30:39 AM PDT by MamaB
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To: Salvation

bookmark


14 posted on 04/22/2014 12:56:52 AM PDT by GOP Poet
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To: MamaB

Catholics are Christians. We believe in the Holy Trinity and the Resurrected Christ. It is our duty to preach to all nations and we rejoice when our brothers and sisters come home to the Faith. It’s not about numbers. It’s about souls.


15 posted on 04/22/2014 1:21:53 AM PDT by JPX2011
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To: WVKayaker

Peter was restored:

John 21:15 When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?”

“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my lambs.”

John 21:16 Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Take care of my sheep.”

John 21:17 The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?”

Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, “Do you love me?” He said, “Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you.”

Jesus said, “Feed my sheep.

John 21:18 Very truly I tell you, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.”

John 21:19 Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, “Follow me!”


16 posted on 04/22/2014 1:43:28 AM PDT by JPX2011
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To: JPX2011
Peter was restored: -JPX2011

I read the Scriptures you posted, but do not see any "restoration". Instead, I see a petty, jealous man, who later found it necessary to try and make Gentiles follow the Jewish customs and could not have been your cult claims as the leader of the church. The head is Christ Jesus, and Peter was only one of 12. The following passage is the completion of your post... and does nothing to reinforce or restore Peter into any role of authority. YMMV, but that is only because of your "traditions of men"!

John 21: ...20 Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, “Lord, who is going to betray you?”) 21 When Peter saw him, he asked, “Lord, what about him?” p>22 Jesus answered, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” 23 Because of this, the rumor spread among the believers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?” p>24 This is the disciple who testifies to these things and who wrote them down. We know that his testimony is true.

17 posted on 04/22/2014 3:06:11 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: MamaB

Catholics are also Christians, we share a common baptism.


18 posted on 04/22/2014 3:34:22 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: JPX2011

AMEN!


19 posted on 04/22/2014 3:34:54 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Salvation

Thank-you, God Bless, Salvation for this special article.

Congrats, Happy Easter Season to our new Catholic Christian believers!


20 posted on 04/22/2014 3:40:00 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: RedHeeler

You forget that Christ forgive Peter.


21 posted on 04/22/2014 3:41:47 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: MamaB

You are, of course, encouraged to start your own thread on the subject.

Perhaps even provide text from a supporting source.


22 posted on 04/22/2014 4:21:07 AM PDT by kidd
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To: RedHeeler

Where and when did Peter lie?


23 posted on 04/22/2014 4:38:42 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: freedumb2003
Liturgy is crystal clear “(Petros) upon this rock I shall build my church.”

With all due respect, the liturgy may be crystal clear, but your understanding of it is not. The "rock" referenced by Jesus in Matthew 16:18 is not Peter, rather it is Peter's confession two verses earlier in the conversation.

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Jesus Christ, not Peter, is the head of His church.

24 posted on 04/22/2014 4:43:11 AM PDT by awelliott (What one generation tolerates, the next embraces....)
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To: Salvation

Yes indeed, Welcome Home to all.


25 posted on 04/22/2014 4:48:25 AM PDT by EBH (And the head wound was healed, and Gog became man.)
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To: vladimir998
Where and when did Peter lie?

Peter lied three times when he denied knowing Jesus after His betrayal and arrest, the final time with curses (Mk 14:71). Nevertheless, Peter, like the rest of us, was not a sinless man; however, he was a forgiven man and a faithful Apostle of the faith until his death.

26 posted on 04/22/2014 4:50:21 AM PDT by awelliott (What one generation tolerates, the next embraces....)
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To: awelliott

“Peter lied three times when he denied knowing Jesus after His betrayal...”

Exactly. And did not Christ forgive him for that? So why, after 2,000 years, do you still refer to him as a liar for something he did while in fear for his life?


27 posted on 04/22/2014 5:03:55 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: WVKayaker

Quotemining is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

The denial of Peter is indeed part of the timeline and is meaningless in this context.

If you want to bash Catholics, go to your nearby Church.


28 posted on 04/22/2014 5:12:04 AM PDT by freedumb2003 (Fight Tapinophobia in all its forms! Do not submit to arduus privilege.)
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To: Salvation; Elsie; Alex Murphy; metmom
Companion thread: What does a Roman Catholic need to do to join the Orthodox Presbyterian Church?

Seems important as more and more Roman Catholics flee Rome.

29 posted on 04/22/2014 5:12:47 AM PDT by Gamecock (The covenant is a stunning blend of law and love. (TK))
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To: RedHeeler
Show where Christ, asked every soul to follow Peter,the Liar. Show this truth, you proclaim as the Truth.

Can you show how anyone became a Christian before the Gospels were written?

30 posted on 04/22/2014 5:19:50 AM PDT by LisaFab
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To: vladimir998
Exactly. And did not Christ forgive him for that? So why, after 2,000 years, do you still refer to him as a liar for something he did while in fear for his life?

I believe your would benefit from carefully reading the thread again. I responded to the question of "Where and when did Peter lie?". Peter did lie in the instance I cited: in fact, all of the other disciples also acted ignobly as they scattered in fear. The fact that he was in fear of his life is completely immaterial, unless you're one of those relative morality types.

Nevertheless, I think the "Peter the Liar" moniker is way over the top, which is why I went on to mention that Peter was a forgiven man and a faithful apostle. Peter was not a perfect man either before or after the resurrection For example, Paul had to publicly rebuke Peter for snubbing the Gentile converts in order to please the Judiazers (Gal 2:11-14). Yet, in spite of those momentary lapses, Peter should be remembered as a great Apostle who died a martyr to the cause, and not as a liar. After all, shortly before his denial, this same Peter attacked the Roman soldiers when they came to arrest Jesus, and legend has it that Peter requested to be crucified upside-down as he was not worthy to die in the same manner as his Lord. These are the things for which Peter should first be remembered.

There are other instances in which we fail to give the apostles a fair shake. For example, "doubting" Thomas is the same Thomas who, when the other disciples were trying to dissuade Jesus from the suicidal mission of returning to Judea said, "Let us also go that we may die with Him". (Jn 11:16)

I'll assume that your were careless in reading the thread and that your comment was directed at the author of the "Peter the Liar" post.

31 posted on 04/22/2014 5:41:33 AM PDT by awelliott (What one generation tolerates, the next embraces....)
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To: JPX2011

“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

If people believe the Catholic and church and all it’s rules, that’s not Christian, there’s a huge difference.

I’m not going to delve into the theology of it, but simply read your bible, the one God gave us, and you will see for yourself.


32 posted on 04/22/2014 5:45:25 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: vladimir998

Oh he lied, for starters he denied Christ three times, saying he didn’t know that man.


33 posted on 04/22/2014 5:47:00 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: WVKayaker

But, you ask for evidence, and I found it easily while looking at the Gospels. It can also be stated that Paul has a better calling because he rebuked Peter for trying to turn Gentiles into Jews! Peter didn’t display any knowledge behind the power of Christ’s sacrifice.


Why do you believe Paul, the liar?


34 posted on 04/22/2014 5:47:42 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: vladimir998

We’re all sinners and nothing but the grace of God saved us.

He sent his son to die for us, because we’re born with sin, and then Jesus rose again defeating death once and for all. His sacrifice was perfect. Jesus Christ is the ONLY intercessor between man and God, and the only way to be saved. There is nothing else.

There’s no purgatory, there’s no praying to dead people, there’s no church has authority over the word etc.


35 posted on 04/22/2014 5:49:21 AM PDT by Bulwyf
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To: Salvation
How to Become a Catholic

Similar to a MORMON?


"When the prophet speaks; the thinking has been done."



http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/06/25/when-our-leaders-speak-the-thinking-has-been-done/

36 posted on 04/22/2014 6:30:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
Those who have been validly baptized outside the Church become Catholics by making a profession of the Catholic faith and being formally received into the Church.
 
 
HMMMmmm...
 

John 6:28-29

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

 

 

I think I'll pass up this wonderful offer...


37 posted on 04/22/2014 6:32:56 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: freedumb2003
>>Show where Christ, asked every soul to follow Peter,the Liar


Strong assertion, backed by zero evidence.

Ok; I'll present the evidence:

And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.

Luke 22:60

38 posted on 04/22/2014 6:37:13 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: freedumb2003
Liturgy is crystal clear “(Petros) upon this rock I shall build my church.”

Perhaps; but FACTS aren't!



 
Is Peter the 'rock'?
 


NIV Matthew 4:18-19
 18.  As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen.
 19.  "Come, follow me," Jesus said, "and I will make you fishers of men."
 
NIV Matthew 8:14
  When Jesus came into Peter's house, he saw Peter's mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.
 
NIV Matthew 10:1-2
 1.  He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to drive out evil  spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
 2.  These are the names of the twelve apostles: first, Simon (who is called Peter) and his brother Andrew; James son of Zebedee, and his brother John;
 
NIV Matthew 14:28-31
 28.  "Lord, if it's you," Peter replied, "tell me to come to you on the water."
 29.  "Come," he said.   Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
 30.  But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, "Lord, save me!"
 31.  Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. "You of little faith," he said, "why did you doubt?"
 
NIV Matthew 15:13-16
 13.  He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
 14.  Leave them; they are blind guides.  If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit."
 15.  Peter said, "Explain the parable to us."
 16.  "Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them.
 

As you can see, Simon was already known as 'Peter'
BEFORE the following verses came along.....


NIV Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "
Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

NIV 1 Corinthians 10:4
   and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
 
NIV Luke 6:48
   He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.
 
NIV Romans 9:33
  As it is written: "See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 
 
 
NIV 1 Peter 2:4-8
 4.  As you come to him, the living Stone--rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him--
 5.  you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
 6.  For in Scripture it says: "See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame."
 7.  Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, "The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone, "
 8.  and, "A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall." They stumble because they disobey the message--which is also what they were destined for.


But, since there WAS no NT at the time Christ spoke to Peter, just what DID Peter and the rest of the Disciples know about ROCKS???

 

NIV Genesis 49:24-25
 24.  But his bow remained steady, his strong arms stayed limber, because of the hand of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel,
 25.  because of your father's God, who helps you, because of the Almighty,  who blesses you with blessings of the heavens above, blessings of the deep that lies below, blessings of the breast and womb.
 
NIV Numbers 20:8
   "Take the staff, and you and your brother Aaron gather the assembly together. Speak to that rock before their eyes and it will pour out its water. You will bring water out of the rock for the community so they and their livestock can drink."
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:4
  He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:15
   Jeshurun  grew fat and kicked; filled with food, he became heavy and sleek. He abandoned the God who made him and rejected the Rock his Savior.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:18
  You deserted the Rock, who fathered you; you forgot the God who gave you birth.
 
NIV Deuteronomy 32:30-31
 30.  How could one man chase a thousand, or two put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, unless the LORD had given them up?
 31.  For their rock is not like our Rock, as even our enemies concede.
 
NIV 1 Samuel 2:2
  "There is no one holy  like the LORD; there is no one besides you; there is no Rock like our God.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:2-3
 2.  He said: "The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
 3.  my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge, my shield and the horn  of my salvation. He is my stronghold, my refuge and my savior-- from violent men you save me.
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:32
  For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV 2 Samuel 22:47
  "The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God, the Rock, my Savior!
 
NIV 2 Samuel 23:3-4
 3.  The God of Israel spoke, the Rock of Israel said to me: `When one rules over men in righteousness, when he rules in the fear of God,
 4.  he is like the light of morning at sunrise on a cloudless morning, like the brightness after rain that brings the grass from the earth.'
 
NIV Psalms 18:2
  The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer; my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge. He is my shield and the horn  of my salvation, my stronghold.
 
NIV Psalms 18:31
   For who is God besides the LORD? And who is the Rock except our God?
 
NIV Psalms 18:46
  The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock! Exalted be God my Savior!
 
NIV Psalms 19:14
   May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be pleasing in your sight, O LORD, my Rock and my Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 28:1
   To you I call, O LORD my Rock; do not turn a deaf ear to me. For if you remain silent, I will be like those who have gone down to the pit.
 
NIV Psalms 31:2-3
 2.  Turn your ear to me, come quickly to my rescue; be my rock of refuge, a strong fortress to save me.
 3.  Since you are my rock and my fortress, for the sake of your name lead and guide me.
 
NIV Psalms 42:9
   I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, oppressed by the enemy?"
 
NIV Psalms 62:2
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will never be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:6
   He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.
 
NIV Psalms 62:7
   My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge.
 
NIV Psalms 71:3
   Be my rock of refuge, to which I can always go; give the command to save me, for you are my rock and my fortress.
 
NIV Psalms 78:35
   They remembered that God was their Rock, that God Most High was their Redeemer.
 
NIV Psalms 89:26
   He will call out to me, `You are my Father, my God, the Rock my Savior.'
 
NIV Psalms 92:14-15
 14.  They will still bear fruit in old age, they will stay fresh and green,
 15.  proclaiming, "The LORD is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."
 
NIV Psalms 95:1
   Come, let us sing for joy to the LORD; let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
 
NIV Psalms 144:1
   Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
 
NIV Isaiah 17:10
   You have forgotten God your Savior; you have not remembered the Rock, your fortress.
 
NIV Isaiah 26:4
   Trust in the LORD forever, for the LORD, the LORD, is the Rock eternal.
 
NIV Isaiah 30:29
 And you will sing as on the night you celebrate a holy festival; your hearts will rejoice as when people go up with flutes to the mountain of the LORD, to the Rock of Israel.
 
NIV Isaiah 44:8
   Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." 
 
NIV Habakkuk 1:12
   O LORD, are you not from everlasting? My God, my Holy One, we will not die. O LORD, you have appointed them to execute judgment; O Rock, you have ordained them to punish.

.....No other rock.............
 
And now you know the Biblical position!


39 posted on 04/22/2014 6:40:58 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: freedumb2003
Liturgy is crystal clear “(Petros) upon this rock I shall build my church.”

Perhaps just a bit more reading of CATHOLIC writings are needed here:

As regards the oft-quoted Mt. 16:18, note the bishops promise in the profession of faith of Vatican 1,

 

Likewise I accept Sacred Scripture according to that sense which Holy mother Church held and holds, since it is her right to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy scriptures; nor will I ever receive and interpret them except according to the unanimous consent of the fathers.http://mb-soft.com/believe/txs/firstvc.htm

Yet as the Dominican cardinal and Catholic theologian Yves Congar O.P. states,

Unanimous patristic consent as a reliable locus theologicus is classical in Catholic theology; it has often been declared such by the magisterium and its value in scriptural interpretation has been especially stressed. Application of the principle is difficult, at least at a certain level. In regard to individual texts of Scripture total patristic consensus is rare...One example: the interpretation of Peter’s confession in Matthew 16:16-18. Except at Rome, this passage was not applied by the Fathers to the papal primacy; they worked out an exegesis at the level of their own ecclesiological thought, more anthropological and spiritual than juridical. — Yves M.-J. Congar, O.P., p. 71

And Catholic archbishop Peter Richard Kenrick (1806-1896), while yet seeking to support Peter as the rock, stated that,

“If we are bound to follow the majority of the fathers in this thing, then we are bound to hold for certain that by the rock should be understood the faith professed by Peter, not Peter professing the faith.” — Speech of archbishop Kenkick, p. 109; An inside view of the vatican council, edited by Leonard Woolsey Bacon.

Your own CCC allows the interpretation that, “On the rock of this faith confessed by St Peter, Christ build his Church,” (pt. 1, sec. 2, cp. 2, para. 424), for some of the ancients (for what their opinion is worth) provided for this or other interpretations.

• Ambrosiaster [who elsewhere upholds Peter as being the chief apostle to whom the Lord had entrusted the care of the Church, but not superior to Paul as an apostle except in time], Eph. 2:20:

Wherefore the Lord says to Peter: 'Upon this rock I shall build my Church,' that is, upon this confession of the catholic faith I shall establish the faithful in life. — Ambrosiaster, Commentaries on Galatians—Philemon, Eph. 2:20; Gerald L. Bray, p. 42

• Augustine, sermon:

"Christ, you see, built his Church not on a man but on Peter's confession. What is Peter's confession? 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' There's the rock for you, there's the foundation, there's where the Church has been built, which the gates of the underworld cannot conquer.John Rotelle, O.S.A., Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine , © 1993 New City Press, Sermons, Vol III/6, Sermon 229P.1, p. 327

Upon this rock, said the Lord, I will build my Church. Upon this confession, upon this that you said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,' I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not conquer her (Mt. 16:18). John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 236A.3, p. 48.

Augustine, sermon:

For petra (rock) is not derived from Peter, but Peter from petra; just as Christ is not called so from the Christian, but the Christian from Christ. For on this very account the Lord said, 'On this rock will I build my Church,' because Peter had said, 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.' On this rock, therefore, He said, which thou hast confessed, I will build my Church. For the Rock (Petra) was Christ; and on this foundation was Peter himself built. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Christ Jesus. The Church, therefore, which is founded in Christ received from Him the keys of the kingdom of heaven in the person of Peter, that is to say, the power of binding and loosing sins. For what the Church is essentially in Christ, such representatively is Peter in the rock (petra); and in this representation Christ is to be understood as the Rock, Peter as the Church. — Augustine Tractate CXXIV; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers: First Series, Volume VII Tractate CXXIV (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf107.iii.cxxv.html)

Augustine, sermon:

And Peter, one speaking for the rest of them, one for all, said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God (Mt 16:15-16)...And I tell you: you are Peter; because I am the rock, you are Rocky, Peter-I mean, rock doesn't come from Rocky, but Rocky from rock, just as Christ doesn't come from Christian, but Christian from Christ; and upon this rock I will build my Church (Mt 16:17-18); not upon Peter, or Rocky, which is what you are, but upon the rock which you have confessed. I will build my Church though; I will build you, because in this answer of yours you represent the Church. — John Rotelle, O.S.A. Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1993), Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 270.2, p. 289

Augustine, sermon:

Peter had already said to him, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' He had already heard, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona, because flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not conquer her' (Mt 16:16-18)...Christ himself was the rock, while Peter, Rocky, was only named from the rock. That's why the rock rose again, to make Peter solid and strong; because Peter would have perished, if the rock hadn't lived. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City, 1993) Sermons, Volume III/7, Sermon 244.1, p. 95

Augustine, sermon:

...because on this rock, he said, I will build my Church, and the gates of the underworld shall not overcome it (Mt. 16:18). Now the rock was Christ (1 Cor. 10:4). Was it Paul that was crucified for you? Hold on to these texts, love these texts, repeat them in a fraternal and peaceful manner. — John Rotelle, Ed., The Works of Saint Augustine (New Rochelle: New City Press, 1995), Sermons, Volume III/10, Sermon 358.5, p. 193

Augustine, Psalm LXI:

Let us call to mind the Gospel: 'Upon this Rock I will build My Church.' Therefore She crieth from the ends of the earth, whom He hath willed to build upon a Rock. But in order that the Church might be builded upon the Rock, who was made the Rock? Hear Paul saying: 'But the Rock was Christ.' On Him therefore builded we have been. — Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1956), Volume VIII, Saint Augustin, Exposition on the Book of Psalms, Psalm LXI.3, p. 249. (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf108.ii.LXI.html)

• Augustine, in “Retractions,”

In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: 'On him as on a rock the Church was built.'...But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: 'Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,' that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: 'Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,' and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received 'the keys of the kingdom of heaven.' For, 'Thou art Peter' and not 'Thou art the rock' was said to him. But 'the rock was Christ,' in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter. But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable. — The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1:.

Basil of Seleucia, Oratio 25:

'You are Christ, Son of the living God.'...Now Christ called this confession a rock, and he named the one who confessed it 'Peter,' perceiving the appellation which was suitable to the author of this confession. For this is the solemn rock of religion, this the basis of salvation, this the wall of faith and the foundation of truth: 'For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Christ Jesus.' To whom be glory and power forever. — Oratio XXV.4, M.P.G., Vol. 85, Col. 296-297.

Bede, Matthaei Evangelium Expositio, 3:

You are Peter and on this rock from which you have taken your name, that is, on myself, I will build my Church, upon that perfection of faith which you confessed I will build my Church by whose society of confession should anyone deviate although in himself he seems to do great things he does not belong to the building of my Church...Metaphorically it is said to him on this rock, that is, the Saviour which you confessed, the Church is to be built, who granted participation to the faithful confessor of his name. — 80Homily 23, M.P.L., Vol. 94, Col. 260. Cited by Karlfried Froehlich, Formen, Footnote #204, p. 156 [unable to verify by me].

• Cassiodorus, Psalm 45.5:

'It will not be moved' is said about the Church to which alone that promise has been given: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I shall build my Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.' For the Church cannot be moved because it is known to have been founded on that most solid rock, namely, Christ the Lord. — Expositions in the Psalms, Volume 1; Volume 51, Psalm 45.5, p. 455

Chrysostom (John) [who affirmed Peter was a rock, but here not the rock in Mt. 16:18]:

Therefore He added this, 'And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church; that is, on the faith of his confession. — Chrysostom, Homilies on the Gospel of Saint Matthew, Homily LIIl; Philip Schaff, Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf110.iii.LII.html)

Cyril of Alexandria:

When [Peter] wisely and blamelessly confessed his faith to Jesus saying, 'You are Christ, Son of the living God,' Jesus said to divine Peter: 'You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church.' Now by the word 'rock', Jesus indicated, I think, the immoveable faith of the disciple.”. — Cyril Commentary on Isaiah 4.2.

Origen, Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII):

“For a rock is every disciple of Christ of whom those drank who drank of the spiritual rock which followed them, 1 Corinthians 10:4 and upon every such rock is built every word of the church, and the polity in accordance with it; for in each of the perfect, who have the combination of words and deeds and thoughts which fill up the blessedness, is the church built by God.'

“For all bear the surname ‘rock’ who are the imitators of Christ, that is, of the spiritual rock which followed those who are being saved, that they may drink from it the spiritual draught. But these bear the surname of rock just as Christ does. But also as members of Christ deriving their surname from Him they are called Christians, and from the rock, Peters.” — Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew (Book XII), sect. 10,11 ( http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/101612.htm)

Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II): Thus our one immovable foundation, our one blissful rock of faith, is the confession from Peter's mouth, Thou art the Son of the living God. On it we can base an answer to every objection with which perverted ingenuity or embittered treachery may assail the truth."-- (Hilary of Potier, On the Trinity (Book II), para 23; Philip Schaff, editor, The Nicene & Post Nicene Fathers Series 2, Vol 9.


40 posted on 04/22/2014 6:43:16 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RedHeeler

I’m glad to see you’ve cooled off!

;^)


41 posted on 04/22/2014 6:43:52 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: WVKayaker; JPX2011
The head is Christ Jesus, and Peter was only one of 12.


Matthew 16:13-18
 13.  When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
 14.  They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
 15.  "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
 16.  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."
 17.  Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.
 18.  And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.
 19.  I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
Chapters and verses were invented later; as we all know...
 
   When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"   They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."   "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"  Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,  the Son of the living God."   Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.   And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades  will not overcome it.    I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be  bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
 
Reading the text we can see that Jesus is talking to the GROUP of disciples; and He is answered by the impulsive one - SIMON Peter.
After dealing with SIMON Peter, He states - to the group -  "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
 
Catholic teaching limits this to SIMON Peter.

42 posted on 04/22/2014 6:47:41 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Biggirl

True, they just have a buncha extra stuff they have to do to be Catholic.


43 posted on 04/22/2014 6:48:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Biggirl
You forget that Christ forgive Peter.

I doubt he forgot anything.

44 posted on 04/22/2014 6:49:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: kidd
You are, of course, encouraged to start your own thread on the subject.

Heck yes!

Don't rain on THIS parade!

45 posted on 04/22/2014 6:50:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: vladimir998
Where and when did Peter lie?

Do you want one; or two or maybe three examples?

46 posted on 04/22/2014 6:51:01 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: awelliott
Jesus Christ, not Peter, is the head of His church.

Many well-educated Catholics agree.

47 posted on 04/22/2014 6:51:44 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation
A person is brought into full communion with the Catholic Church through reception of the three sacraments of Christian initiation—baptism, confirmation, and the holy Eucharist

Whereas a person is brought into full communion with Jesus Christ through repentance, faith, and Lordship.

48 posted on 04/22/2014 6:52:04 AM PDT by dartuser
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To: vladimir998
So why, after 2,000 years, do you still refer to him as a liar for something he did while in fear for his life?

You guys ever hear of a fella named LUTHER??

49 posted on 04/22/2014 6:52:31 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: vladimir998
So why, after 2,000 years, do you still refer to him as a liar for something he did while in fear for his life?

Vlad; you are a

SINNER!

yet your sins are forgiven as well.

50 posted on 04/22/2014 6:53:39 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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