Skip to comments.(Anglican) Archbishop: We ‘have evolved’ from Bible’s teaching on divorce, why not gay ‘marriage’?
Posted on 04/25/2014 1:52:25 PM PDT by NYer
LLANDUDNO, Wales, (LifeSiteNews.com) – The Anglican Church’s “views have evolved and changed” on the nature of marriage “a subject which Jesus pronounced very clearly,” the head of the Anglican Church in Wales said this week; therefore, it can also change its teaching on homosexuality.
In an address to the governing body of the Church in Wales, Dr. Barry Morgan, the Anglican Archbishop of Wales warned of the danger of the Anglican Churches being “seen as homophobic.” Morgan said that the Church’s views “evolve and change” as it responds to the changes in the secular world.
“The State allowed the possibility of divorce and remarriage for a long time before we did as a Church. Not only do we now bless such unions, we actually remarry divorced people in our churches,” he said.
“Some people have changed their minds for example on women’s ministry and same-sex relationships when they have experienced the ministry of a woman priest in the one case, or discovered their own son or daughter to be gay in the other,” he said.
“Will we, as a Church, eventually adopt the same approach as far as same-sex relationships are concerned, as we have done about remarriage after divorce, or is gay marriage in a different category from the remarriage of divorced people?” He added that whatever the answer, he hope the Church’s “discussions can be charitable.”
There is not just one Christian viewpoint on “same-sex relationships” or “assisted dying,” he said. Instead our attitudes are shaped by upbringing, education and which texts of the Bible one prefers.
“Holy Scripture itself is far more nuanced, subtle and complex than we often realize...We cannot just quote Biblical texts on different subject matters and think that that settles an issue. It is easy to opt for prohibitions in Scripture and regard them as the word of the Lord and forget that the Bible contains stories which also convey God’s word to us.”
Jesus, he added, “had nothing to say about gay marriage” as the archbishop counseled homosexuals to be patient with regard to the Anglican Church’s attitude towards homosexuality.
The speech is being taken as encouragement by homosexual activists, who were disappointed by comments last week from Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury who said that it will be “almost impossible” for some Christians to accept “same-sex marriage.”
A Welsh homosexual political lobby group, Stonewall Cymru, said Archbishop Morgan “has been consistent in his support for LGBT equality. The discussion the Church in Wales are about to enter involves real people, real lives. We know that it will be followed intensely by many same-sex couples in Wales, their families, friends and communities.”
Archbishop Justin Welby warned that Christians in Africa would suffer “abuse” and “hatred” if they were to accept homosexual unions. He said that the Church has done “great harm” to homosexual groups “in this country and around the world.”
Last year, the Church of England, in the face of impending “gay marriage” legislation, voted not to allow same-sex “marriage” ceremonies.
“We must both respond to what we’ve done in the past and listen to those voices extremely carefully. Listen with love and compassion and sorrow. And do what is possible to be done, which is not always a huge amount,” Welby said.
But he added that African Christians would face violent repercussions should the Anglican Church universally accept homosexual partnerings. “Why can't we just do it now? Because the impact of that on Christians in countries far from here, like South Sudan, like Pakistan, Nigeria and other places, would be absolutely catastrophic, and we have to love them as much as we love the people who are here.”
“I’ve stood by a graveside in Africa of a group of Christians who’d been attacked because of something that had happened far, far away in America,” he said. “That burns itself into your soul, as does the suffering of gay people in this country.”
Welby’s comments followed a scathing attack on Western Anglicans by Nigerian Archbishop Nicholas Okoh, who said the Pilling Report, a Church of England proposal to accept homosexuality could never apply to Nigerian Anglicans.
Okoh said nothing about possible repercussions from Islamic militants, which is an ongoing threat in Nigeria, but strongly asserted that the Church of Nigeria will continue to adhere to the Biblical moral injunctions against disordered sexual practices. He reaffirmed that marriage can only be a lifelong union between one man and one woman.
The Pilling Report, and a subsequent letter from Welby and the Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, praising the “ministry” of homosexual clergy, “is not and will not be applicable in Nigeria,” Okoh said in February.
“Our understanding is that it is not Christianity; it is a new colonial philosophy at work,” Okoh said. “We must further say that the position of the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Church of England House of Bishops has increased the difficulties in the relationship between that Church and ours. We call on all African Church leaders to reject the letter and to lead their people without any foreign moral imposition.”
On March 30, the Anglican Archbishop of Kenya warned his flock against the incursions of the Western homosexual lobby, which he said attacks marriage and human identity as male and female, made in the image and likeness of God. At All Saints Cathedral in Nairobi, Archbishop Eliud Wabukala spoke against laws passed in England legalizing same sex “marriage” calling them “a profound rejection of the law of God,” that “strike at the heart of family life.”
Archbishop Wabukala said marriage is under attack from outside the nation and within the nation. “From outside, we are being pressed by the West, and even parts of the Anglican Communion, into treating homosexuality as a human right, but this is to cheapen rights so that they become a demand that we tolerate individual preferences that are destructive of our moral fabric.
“We must be vigilant for the future of our nation, so that our children may grow up in the fear of the Lord in loving, godly and caring families where they are protected from moral confusion and able to build their lives on the solid foundation of God’s Word,” he said.
Wabukala joined Okoh in reiterating the teaching of Christ that marriage is the lifelong union of one man with one woman for the raising of children. “We have no other position than the teaching of the Bible,” he said.
“In his teaching about marriage, Jesus reaffirms that marriage is the coming together of a man and a woman in accordance with the pattern of creation itself when he says ‘from the beginning of creation God made them male and female,’” he added. “For the health and well being of both church and society we must promote this great God given gift of marriage without compromise and ambiguity.”
I have not “evolved”. The Roman Catholic Church has not “evolved”. The Greek Orthodox Church has not “evolved”. The Russian Orthodox Church has not “evolved”. So back into the closet with ye!
Why not just get rid of even the concept of right and wrong? /s
The only reason you exist was to give your king Henry VIII a divorce, and a finger to Rome for not granting one.
Do you seriously think anyone takes your church seriously with origins like that?
There needs to be one more “Protestant wind” to blow what’s left of the “Church on England” into the North Sea.
Going apostate is not evolution.
Sodom didn’t get turned to ash and cinders because there was too much divorce going on.
The Africans, Church of India, and Antipodeans are the only Anglicans left in the world with their heads screwed on straight. Elsewhere the church is a sodfestival of anal penetration and rug-burning.
Yeah, why not?
If you’re going to put man’s authority above God’s,
then you might as well have man define good and evil for himself.
Seems I heard of that somewhere before... something out of Genesis 3.
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Hebrews 13:8
Genesis 19-20 is unequivocal and impossible to misunderstand unless you rilly, rilly, RILLY try hard to bafflegab it into nonexistence.
Like the homosexual seminarians infesting Salon's "TableTalk" 15 years ago were doing .... but then Mary Ann, the discussion-thread doyenne, was lesbian herself, so what do you expect?
Wanna see the latest version of homoinvective against normal people? Surf over there and read William Saletan and Salon's other high priest of gayness drooling their rage over the CEO firing at Mozilla. [Note: NOT using a Mozilla browser; I'm using Safari.]
There is the Roman Catholic Church of over 2000 years founded by Christ on the Rock of Peter and it contains a coherent Catechism informed by scripture, traditions, and divine revelation.
All the other brands of Christianity as heretical beliefs as does 35, 000 of them that spring up like wild mushrooms that later wither and die. This goes to the Jeremiah Wrights, Al Sharptons, Jesse Jacksons, Bishop Jakes, Billy Grahams, Joel Osteens, Rev Moon, Jimmy Swaggarts, Jim Jones’, David Koreshs, and right down to the corner street First Utilitarian Church, Mormons, Scientologists, or whatever. These are the evil heresies spawned by the Reformation and filth of Henry VIII. Everything evolves. Or as Chesterton put it, he who believes in everything believes in nothing.
Sounds like the church is going to talk itself out of a job.
Barry...Guy......get a clue!
WHAT WOULD Jesus do FITS...here!!!
Read the Bible and FIND OUT!!!!
Based on attendance at most of these churches. They have little to do in their jobs already.
Every Anglican Church I know of has but one Sunday service whose entire attendance could fit into a standard living room. The attendants are so old they should hold the services at the local rest home.
There is a very large difference between tolerating sin and pretending it is not sin. We tolerate drunks, so long as they do not drink and drive and do not get too loud or obnoxious, but that does not mean we should endorse and celebrate drunkenness.
I am civil with an adulterer who divorced and remarried the "other woman". We talk often. We help each other with little things. I will never trust him - someone who would lie to his first wife would certainly lie to his second wife or to me, but I am polite to him.
We should tolerate well-behaved gays (not the evil parasites who file frivolous lawsuits - I shun those thugs regardless of their activist group), at least in the sense of not picking on them or bullying them if they are inoffensive in their conduct, but that does not mean that acting on homosexual attraction is not sinful. If God changes his mind on homosexuality, I am confident that He will tell us, directly and unambiguously. Until that day, if ever, Christians must continue to follow scripture.
Afterward, it concentrated on spiritual matters, became tolerant and a force for good, including beating back the Muslim hordes who decided to re invade Europe where John Calvin and his gang became more interested in eradicating the perceived heresies than saving Christianity from a far greater threat.
Why do you need a church if everything is ok and there is in longer evil.?(I’m so glad I left that filthy nest, my instincts were good 20 years ago!)
God’s word does not “evolve”.
Wait, where in the Bible does it say to confess sins to another human being instead of God himself? Where also does it say anything about a pope and anything about papal infallibility?
This is actually a clarifying moment.
True. But then, He had nothing to say about the "Bride of the Burro" act in Tijuana, either.
They’re also evolving into irrelevancy
“Evolved”? No. “Fallen away”? Yes.
Sounds like the CofE and Wales, and Episcopalians want to “evolve” beyond the whole ‘Anglican’ thing. Probably ‘evolve’ beyond the whole ‘God thing’.
“Because religion isn’t fun if you have to obey rules”, they whine.
Something else Kasper and Francis can emulate, in the name of "ecumenism"!
Either you follow Gods Word or you do not. You do not evolve from it........
The Anglicans have been destroying Christianity ever since Henry VIII. Henry could not get an annulment so started a Church based on private opinion rather than one with an infallible teaching authority commissioned to accurately the Gospels. Geeez.
Apparently, this Dr. Barry has already evolved back into an amoeba.
This man is a disgusting wretch. How dare he make this statement.
That burns itself into your soul, as does the suffering of gay people in this country.
He is comparing African Christians being MURDERED to... what exactly? What suffering to homos endure in these societies where they are allowed to be as perverse as they like and silence all opposition? He’s a total disgrace. No sane African would be a member of such a misguided, heretical church.
God will sort him out.
he should have worded it differently: we always were for divorce of man and woman and enslaving homosexual relationships without resort to divorce.
Man and woman marriage is slavery but gay marriage is love and their divorce is hate.
These people are indeed hypocrite wretches.
Oh, how the Devil must love those modern sensibilities!
His first sentence says it all, “The Anglican Churchs views have evolved and changed on the nature of marriage a subject which Jesus pronounced very clearly, the head of the Anglican Church in Wales said this week; therefore, it can also change its teaching on homosexuality.”
Right, archbishop, Jesus was quite clear in his pronouncements to his Jewish audience in advising them that from the very beginning it was to be one marriage with no divorce.
So now, even after you have confirmed what Jesus said, you have the nerve to say that YOU can do whatever you want to change the teaching of Jesus. No wonder your Anglican church is crumbling at its foundations.
Evolve= 3rd def To throw out; as gasses. Disgusting, these so called religious consider articles of faith as nothing but vapors.
The apostle Paul: (paraphrased) Though it be we or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel than what we have preached, let him be accursed.
I will stay with apostle Paul’s teaching. Thank you very much.
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True, but the rapidly evolving Anglican Archbishop of Wales also sees no problems with burro-marriages, and has been quietly extolling the virtues of divorce to that bride you mentioned, as the Anglican Archbishop of Wales has had his own evolving matrimonially-minded eye on that same burro for some time now...
As a Protestant with a doctorate in theology from a Jesuit university, I have a great deal of respect for your point of view. However, you do yourself no favor by lumping together the likes of Jeremiah Wright, Mormons, and Scientologists with an almost universally revered figure such as Billy Graham.
Unlike Jimmy Swaggart and his ilk, there was never a hint of scandal surrounding Graham, who lived a modest lifestyle and was responsible for leading many to Christ over a long and honorable career as an evangelist.
You might be interested to learn that Billy Graham reached out to the Catholic Churches in the cities where he held his crusades, and was roundly criticized by strict fundamentalists for having Catholic priests on his platform along with ministers of other denominations.
I believe that the Catholic understanding of "separated brethren" is more charitable than you allow. Many Protestants have been drawn to the current Pope, who reaches out not in a self-assured spirit of superiority, but of humility.
You make a good point. I was operating on the premise that many of these Christian leaders actually used Christianity to enrich their families, sell their books, and build personal financial empires for their progeny.
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Well, there’s the inconvenient bit about his never referring to marriage other than as between a man and a woman, but do go on, Your Grace.
I don't support "evolving" on homosexual marriage and believe that we are seeing signs of what God told us was going to happen prior to His return. We can't stop society, or even our religions, from "evolving" because He has ordained that it will all become rotten - all we can do is carry His Word and try not to let our own lives become corrupted.
The truth is that civil divorce and a church annulment are two vastly different things. A divorce is concerned with the legal realities of marriage only; an annulment is concerned with the religious and spiritual elementthe sacrament of marriage. A divorce focuses on the end of a marriage; an annulment looks at the beginning, the very moment the couple said "I do." A divorce looks at marriage in civil law; an annulment looks at marriage from the perspective of the Gospel and of Church doctrine. It is a myth that an annulment is "Divorce, Catholic style."
I'm half--- but only half--- ironic on that.
The wages of any kind of sin is death. And the prophet Malachi says God hates divorce.
"Hear the word of the Lord,
you rulers of Sodom!
Listen to the teaching of our God,
you people of Gomorrah!...
your hands are full of blood.
Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
remove the evil of your doings
from before my eyes;
cease to do evil,
learn to do good;
rescue the oppressed,
defend the orphan,
plead for the widow."
Somehow, He doesn't specify "stop trying to anally rape angels"--- although no doubt that was one of their many abominations. In this passage, God says they failed to do justice for the oppressed, the orphan and the widow.
In the NT, certainly, St. Jude speaks of the sins of unnatural sexual vice:
"Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which, in the same manner as they, indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire."
But then again, the questions of pride and greed, and the neglect of the poor and needy, are specified as Sodom's sins:
"This was the guilt of your sister Sodom:
she and her daughters had pride,
excess of food,
and prosperous ease,
but did not aid the poor and needy."
So: pride, materialistic excess --- it's just a tad wider and deeper than the specific vice of active homosexual conduct. Straight people are given no reason to think they are exempt from the sins of Sodom...
However, these high-profile megachurches comprise less than 1% of Protestant churches: the vast majority are small churches whose pastors minister with little fanfare, out of the limelight.
I have had the opportunity to worship and be involved in Protestant churches across the spectrum, from Pentecostal/Charismatic to Baptistic/Evangelical to Fundamentalistic. Almost without exception, the pastors have been sincere men who seek to serve Christ, and many of the parishioners were devoted Christians.
My experience has been that, when it occurs, hostility to the Catholic Church is typically based upon ignorance and misconceptions. Anti-Catholic attitudes are on the decrease as many Protestants realize how much we share in common. More and more, I am finding that faithful Christians are eager to fellowship with other believers regardless of church affiliation.
I can foresee a day in the not-too-distant future when many Protestants begin to look to the Catholic Church as a bulwark against a hostile society that is actively persecuting Christians. When this happens it will be a unity wrought by the Holy Spirit.
The Reformation led to disaster. It could not have succeeded in Germany without the political help of the German princes. In Switzerland, Zwingli died on the battlefield. The anabaptists tried to take over cities in Germany, and were crushed Geneva served as a citadel for the Huguenots in France.