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Pope emphasizes 'indissolubility of Christian matrimony' (Ecumenical)
Catholic News Agency ^ | 04/25/2104 | n/a

Posted on 04/25/2014 2:27:25 PM PDT by Pyro7480

Pope Francis on April 25 stressed the need for bishops and priests to give a “consistent witness” to Christian moral teaching, including the lifelong nature of Christian marriage, and to teach these truths “with great compassion.”

“The holiness and indissolubility of Christian matrimony, often disintegrating under tremendous pressure from the secular world, must be deepened by clear doctrine and supported by the witness of committed married couples,” Pope Francis said.

“Christian matrimony is a lifelong covenant of love between one man and one woman; it entails real sacrifices in order to turn away from illusory notions of sexual freedom and in order to foster conjugal fidelity.”

The Pope’s remarks came in a meeting with bishops from South Africa, Zimbabwe and Swaziland...Vatican Radio reports....

Pope Francis’ comments follow media reports about the contents of a recent phone call he allegedly made to a remarried divorced woman in Argentina. The woman claimed that the Pope told her she could receive Holy Communion.

Catholic teaching recognizes the nature of matrimony as indissoluble, so a new marriage can only be contracted if the first union was found to be invalid. Those who have entered a new union without a recognition of annulment may not be admitted to Communion.

On April 24, Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that the media coverage of the woman cannot be confirmed as reliable and is “a source of misunderstanding and confusion.”

In his comments to the southern African bishops, Pope Francis also noted the damage caused by abortion and an attitude of disrespect for life.

“Abortion compounds the grief of many women who now carry with them deep physical and spiritual wounds after succumbing to the pressures of a secular culture which devalues God’s gift of sexuality and the right to life of the unborn,” he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at catholicnewsagency.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; christian; divorcecommunion; marriage
I wonder how much coverage these remarks will get.
1 posted on 04/25/2014 2:27:25 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 04/25/2014 2:28:14 PM PDT by Pyro7480 (Viva Cristo Rey!)
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To: Pyro7480

“Catholic teaching recognizes the nature of matrimony as indissoluble, so a new marriage can only be contracted if the first union was found to be invalid. Those who have entered a new union without a recognition of annulment may not be admitted to Communion.”

As a Catholic who has been married for going on 46 years, I agree with this. However, I don’t think it’s up to the Church to recognize the annulment. The Church can investigate all it wants, but only the parties themselves know what was in their mind when they took the vows.

If one or both of them feel that it was not Sacramental, then it wasn’t... It would make no sense for them to just make it up.


3 posted on 04/25/2014 2:42:38 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Pyro7480

Make up your mind, LOL!


4 posted on 04/25/2014 2:45:57 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Seriously. I’m getting whiplash.


5 posted on 04/25/2014 2:46:25 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Obamacare: You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.)
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To: babygene

It is absolutely up to the Church to discern whether a marriage is sacramentally valid, because custody of the sacraments is entrusted to the Church. When a man and women ask for a Catholic wedding, they are asking not just for a legal formality, but that their marriage be recognized as a sacrament of Christ’s union with his spouse the Church. In applying to be so recognized, they submit themselves to the discipline of the Church. Those who wish only to contract a natural marriage can do so without assistance of the Church. The Church does not unreasonably or arbitrarily deny her children in such requests, but it’s for her to cooperate with them in discerning their proper disposition.


6 posted on 04/25/2014 2:52:46 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Pyro7480

Not much coverage, I’m sure. This is just a little face-saving CYA by Francis’s staff, slipped in at the end of the news cycle when all the journalists are out pre-filing their JPII we-luv-U stories.

Again, Francis has shown himself to be undisciplined, arbitrary, reckless, and possessed of a towering ego. It must be a nightmare working for that man.


7 posted on 04/25/2014 2:59:43 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: Jeff Chandler

This is not contradictory. This homily does not address the communion issue.


8 posted on 04/25/2014 3:13:42 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Romulus; NYer; Salvation
Again, Francis has shown himself to be undisciplined, arbitrary, reckless, and possessed of a towering ego. It must be a nightmare working for that man.

Bravo!

9 posted on 04/25/2014 3:16:14 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Romulus

It really has nothing to do with the couple asking for a “Catholic” wedding. It can be a Baptist, Jewish, or an Assembly of God wedding. Unless it is annulled by a Catholic marriage trial before a tribunal the individual can not marry in the church even if they have converted to Catholicism after the divorce.


10 posted on 04/25/2014 3:29:21 PM PDT by muskah
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To: Romulus

“It is absolutely up to the Church to discern whether a marriage is sacramentally valid, because custody of the sacraments is entrusted to the Church.”

I totally disagree. I was married in the Catholic church in the sixties. We had to attend classes that didn’t amount to anything other than a social gathering. Nothing serious discussed... The priest didn’t even discuss family planning (or lack of it).

The “Church” didn’t take it seriously and neither did the brides and grooms.

At that time and place, there were no valid sacramental marriages in my opinion. That part of it was a farce.


11 posted on 04/25/2014 3:44:04 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Pyro7480; KingOfVagabonds; Berlin_Freeper; UnRuley1; mlizzy; mc5cents; RichInOC; Prince of Space; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

12 posted on 04/25/2014 4:09:08 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Pyro7480

I’m getting to really detest this Pope.


13 posted on 04/25/2014 4:13:05 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: babygene
The Church can investigate all it wants, but only the parties themselves know what was in their mind when they took the vows.

Actually their families and friends can usually provide some insight, as well. Folks in 'love' will ignore red flags sometimes, where their friend can see them, but either won't say anything, or are ignored or shunned when they try to say it. Marriage tribunals interview lots of folks when they're investigating a case.

14 posted on 04/25/2014 4:16:34 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: Pyro7480

It will get lost in all the pre-St. John Paul II/St. John XXIII news reports in no time.


15 posted on 04/25/2014 4:38:14 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: SuziQ

SuziQ I respect your opinion... However, we’ve had an annulment in our extended family, and the spouse was not even contacted. Nor were the sisters or the brother in laws. And I was the best man at their wedding... Not only that, they renewed their vows after being married 30 years.

I’ve been married for almost 46 years. Married in the church... And will be till “death do us part”. My marriage, however, wasn’t a valid Sacramental marriage. I know that and God knows that. A tribunal never would...


16 posted on 04/25/2014 4:54:49 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: ebb tide

“Again, Francis has shown himself to be undisciplined, arbitrary, reckless, and possessed of a towering ego. It must be a nightmare working for that man.”

“Bravo!”

You weren’t satisfied when the woman said the Pope told her she could receive Communion. Now, you’re not satisfied when the Pope says that if it was a religious marriage with both parties baptized and planning to stay married for life, she CANNOT get divorced and receive Communion.

NO ONE, neither you nor I know what the divorced woman told the Pope.

Obviously, nothing the Pope does will please you.


17 posted on 04/25/2014 5:10:25 PM PDT by kitkat (STORM HEAVEN WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY)
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To: babygene

The Catholic process of annulments is often seen as harsh. The opposite is actually true. If the Church were truly harsh it would just say: “You made your vows before God and public witnesses so live with it. There is nothing we can do.” Instead, it makes a good faith effort to see if there is some reason to declare that there was a defect at the time of the wedding in order to declare that the marriage was invalid. This is a pastoral response.

And no, it cannot just be up the the couple. We are all sinners and the temptation to lie, to others or even to oneself, is just too great. And there is also the question of the rights of the other party and of the children. As difficult as the annulment process is, other than saying that public vows can never be repudiated, it is the only just option.


18 posted on 04/25/2014 5:20:00 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: kitkat
NO ONE, neither you nor I know what the divorced woman told the Pope.

The Pope knows and he aint' talking. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. If she lied, it's up to the Pope to make the record straight.

19 posted on 04/25/2014 5:20:57 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Petrosius

“We are all sinners and the temptation to lie, to others or even to oneself, is just too great.”

Why the heck would one lie so that they could receive communion? That doesn’t make any sense. That would be akin to lying in confession...


20 posted on 04/25/2014 5:49:28 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene
Why the heck would one lie so that they could receive communion? That doesn’t make any sense. That would be akin to lying in confession...

It happens. But more to the point, many would indeed lie in order to marry a second time in church. I know of one case in which a groom had a baptismal certificate without the notation of a previous marriage forged in order to get married in church. It was only discovered the night before the wedding.

People can also lie to themselves, truly believing that their make belief world is true. We are not always the best judges of the truth when it comes to our own self benefit. The ability at self-deception should not be underestimated.

21 posted on 04/25/2014 6:03:50 PM PDT by Petrosius
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To: Pyro7480

**“The holiness and indissolubility of Christian matrimony, often disintegrating under tremendous pressure from the secular world, must be deepened by clear doctrine and supported by the witness of committed married couples,” Pope Francis said. **

YES!!


22 posted on 04/25/2014 6:39:02 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: aquila48

**I’m getting to really detest this Pope.**

Why? For what reason? Because he is misinterpreted by almost all media?


23 posted on 04/25/2014 6:40:10 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

How come all the other popes were never misrepresented like this one?


24 posted on 04/25/2014 7:19:25 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: Pyro7480

It’s only going to get worse, because there’s no market for the Sacrament of Matrimony in real life.

I read recently that when Cdl. Bergoglio was elected Pope, he said, “I accept in a spirit of penance.” Now imagine you asked some sweet girl to marry you and she said, “I accept in a spirit of penance.” Not what you had in mind, is it?

But it’s the real deal. If your marriage isn’t purging you of sinfulness, you’re not doing it right. “Un molino, la vida nos tritura con dolor.” “Life is a mill that grinds us up with suffering.”


25 posted on 04/25/2014 7:20:52 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Celebrating the return of Piper after 16 days on the lam. Have a drink!)
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To: Salvation
Why? For what reason? Because he is misinterpreted by almost all media?

If he's being misinterpreted, why isn't he speaking out? Maybe it's because he's sneaky and means what he says.

26 posted on 04/25/2014 7:27:03 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Salvation

BINGO! We have a WINNER!


27 posted on 04/26/2014 3:25:26 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: muskah
It really has nothing to do with the couple asking for a “Catholic” wedding. It can be a Baptist, Jewish, or an Assembly of God wedding. Unless it is annulled by a Catholic marriage trial before a tribunal the individual can not marry in the church even if they have converted to Catholicism after the divorce.

This is correct only if that particular denomination as a sacrament. I know of several people that converted to Catholicism after a divorce and were allowed Catholic weddings with out a hitch. One was Baptist the other was COG.

28 posted on 04/26/2014 3:55:36 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: babygene; SuziQ
I respect your opinion... However, we’ve had an annulment in our extended family, and the spouse was not even contacted. Nor were the sisters or the brother in laws. And I was the best man at their wedding... Not only that, they renewed their vows after being married 30 years.

Because some cases require a lot less investigation than others. My niece married a young man that was stoned at the time of the marriage, yes in Church at the ceremony. Four years later annulment granted almost no investigation required.

29 posted on 04/26/2014 4:00:31 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: ebb tide
If she lied, it's up to the Pope to make the record straight.

Why, seriously, why does he have to set the record straight? They had a private conversation. He does not owe anyone an explanation. If she want to participate in a media circus that is up to her, he is under no obligation to.

30 posted on 04/26/2014 4:04:48 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: babygene
Why the heck would one lie so that they could receive communion? That doesn’t make any sense. That would be akin to lying in confession...

Why would someone lie to have a Church wedding? If you don't view it as a sacrament why would you want to get married in a Church. A Justice of the Peace is quicker and easier.

31 posted on 04/26/2014 4:06:55 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: verga

Why? Because many folks think her story is the truth. Many folks will now think that the Pope said that it’s okay for a divorced and remarried person to receive communion EVEN when their parish priest has denied them communion.

Why wouldn’t the Pope WANT to clarify to avoid that mess?

Of course, there is the chance that he actually did say all that the woman said and wants others to think this.


32 posted on 04/26/2014 5:19:23 AM PDT by piusv
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To: verga

Welcome to the world of being bashed by fellow Catholics.


33 posted on 04/26/2014 6:59:47 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: babygene

It didn’t stop being the Church’s job just because it was handled so badly.


34 posted on 04/26/2014 7:38:50 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: piusv
Why? Because many folks think her story is the truth. Many folks will now think that the Pope said that it’s okay for a divorced and remarried person to receive communion EVEN when their parish priest has denied them communion.

Many people think Nancy Pelousy and Joe Biteme are examples of Catholicism. Real Catholics know that they are not and know what the rules are and will follow them

Why wouldn’t the Pope WANT to clarify to avoid that mess?

Has the Church spoken before on what the correct procedure is? Does the CCC Cover it adequately? Does the Code of Canon law cover it? " Roma locuta; causa finita est,"

Of course, there is the chance that he actually did say all that the woman said and wants others to think this.

Sure absolutely there is that chance. Of course there is also a chance I will sprout wings, feathers and start flying around a circus tent, but I don't see it happening.

35 posted on 04/26/2014 7:39:59 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: Biggirl
Welcome to the world of being bashed by fellow Catholics.

Since returning tot he Church 15+ years ago I have been attacked by Catholics and protestants for speaking Catholic truth. I have both my big boy pants and shoes on and will not stop just because some are CINO's.

36 posted on 04/26/2014 7:43:40 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: Biggirl

Your definition of bashing is fascinating. I would argue that your calling my post to verga as bashing is actually bashing me.

But it’s ok for you to bash, huh?


37 posted on 04/26/2014 7:49:01 AM PDT by piusv
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To: verga

I guess October will prove things out. I am still open to the possibility that Francis will remain orthodox on this matter, but I won’t hold my breath. And if he does change the rules for divorced and remarried in some way, how will you respond?


38 posted on 04/26/2014 7:52:09 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Romulus

“It didn’t stop being the Church’s job just because it was handled so badly.”

So where does that leave the millions with defective marriages?

When someone doesn’t do their job, they lose it. The responsibility then falls on their boss. (that would be God)


39 posted on 04/26/2014 8:20:01 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: piusv

Rather “conservative” on this matter.


40 posted on 04/26/2014 8:34:37 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv
And if he does change the rules for divorced and remarried in some way, how will you respond?

Engaging in idle speculation is a waste of time and effort. Instead I will do my daily Bible reading and pray the last day of the Divine mercy novena. I believe that both of those will be more beneficial to both me and the world in general. Be sure to let me know if it does happen.

41 posted on 04/26/2014 11:39:39 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: babygene
So where does that leave the millions with defective marriages?

Can you document these "millions" of defective marriages? You do understand that it is the couple that confects the sacrament of marriage, and the Priest acts as the witness for the Church?

42 posted on 04/26/2014 11:43:32 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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To: Pyro7480

I agree with the Pope, and even if I didn’t, I would comply. People should really get an annulment, but from what I understand it isn’t easy.

I have dissagreed having seen friends try to maintain their marriage only to endure decades of infidelity. They married someone who lied about who they were. An annulment is not easy and takes some money. It’s not always something divorcees have.

I now realize that the requirement of annulment probably saved my vulnerable friends from getting involved with someone else too soon. I can’t imagine how some people expose their children to all the characters they date. NOT GOOD. The requirement for an annulment creates a conscience and respect for family that too few people have.

That said, their are cases of indigenous and uneducated Catholics in other countries who dont have the wherewithall to get an annulment. A divorce is traumatic expecially after enduring years of psychological abuse. I think they should give indigenous cultures more understanding, and spouses who unknowingly entered a marriage to addicts, sex addicts in particular, should have an painless annulment.


43 posted on 04/26/2014 1:33:12 PM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: verga

“Can you document these “millions” of defective marriages? You do understand that it is the couple that confects the sacrament of marriage, and the Priest acts as the witness for the Church?”

Yes... In the sixties when I married, and it’s true today... probably even more so, when a person enters into Holy Matrimony with the social mindset that it is NOT a forever till death do us part deal, then it’s defective.

Allowing small print such as “as long as he is faithful”, or as long as she doesn’t “she doesn’t let herself go - ie; get fat”. When you put a qualifier on the wedding vows, the marriages are defective, and you do not have a sacramental marriage.

I chose those two issues because those are the two most common reasons; infidelity for women and fat for men, that are listed as the primary stated reason for divorce.

“I, (Bride/Groom), take you (Groom/Bride), to be my (wife/husband), to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part.”

There are no exclusions in there for infidelity or getting fat. Clearly what the bride and groom promise is not inclusive... Not just in an isolated case, but in most cases.

If a couple suggested such an exclusion to their pastor before the church wedding, they would not be getting married in the church.

So yes... It is millions of defective marriages. Probably the majority. Probably yours as well if you were to be honest about it.

As for mine, I have been married for going on 46 years. It hasn’t always been easy and I have not always been a model husband or her a model wife. But we’ve endured none the less..

For those whose marriages have fallen apart, it probably wasn’t a sacramental marriage to begin with.


44 posted on 04/26/2014 10:04:20 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: babygene

Documentation requires evidence, all you have provided is an opinion.


45 posted on 04/27/2014 4:11:33 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, but leaning Libertarian.)
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