Posted on 04/25/2014 6:35:42 PM PDT by Belteshazzar
I n a recent column, I explored some obstacles to the embrace of religious faith among young people today, paying special attention to the gulf between the often simplistic way that traditional churches talk about God and the pluralistic complexity of modern life.
Here's another obstacle: The overly literalistic character of so much of American piety.
My favorite example is the way that many American Christians think and talk about hell.
Jumping off from a handful of Gospel passages in which Jesus Christ speaks about "eternal punishment" for sinners in the afterlife, these believers conjure visions of a cosmic torture chamber in which those who reject God or commit grave sins without repentance are subjected to endless torment as punishment for their transgressions. It is a ghastly analogue to equally crude and comical visions of heaven as a place where the righteous are rewarded with angels' wings and an eternity of harp lessons.
This is very bad theology — because it takes off from a deeply confused, though very commonly held, view of punishment.
(Excerpt) Read more at theweek.com ...
I’ll take a stab at this. First, God does not send anyone to hell; they choose hell by rejecting God. As a theologian once said, “The road to hell passes by the gates of heaven.” The essence of hell is the agonizing knowledge that you had the opportunity to choose heaven, but rejected it. The torment is psychological and emotional, not physical, and the descriptions of hell’s torment are metaphorical. God’s justice demands that those who reject Him receive what they elected. An even worse hell would be making people who hated Him live in His presence eternally. That people live eternally in hell is inextricably tied to His promise that humans have eternal souls. If He simply snuffed out those who rejected Him, then what guarantee is there that He will not likewise snuff out all others at some time? His promise must be eternal and unchangeable. Therefore, the promise of eternality must stand for both those who reject Him and those who accept Him.
◄ Revelation 2:17 ►
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
logically if there is no crime worthy of eternal punishment, then there is no act worthy of eternal life. It is a gift. Both are gifts. We accept which one we want. Evidence. I heard someone say, prove it does not exist. Evil or good. The Saturday before Palm Sunday I decided to read about where Jesus was before He entered the city of Jerusalem.
In Luke the last parable He told was about the talents. The last part of the parable jumped out at me. He said, “But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.”
All they did “wrong” was not want to be ruled over. They wanted their freedom, I suppose.
Thank you for this.
I have numerous objections.
1) I personally am not sure that God is not just sadistic, but infinitely sadistic. If he punishes even one person for infinity that deserves a finite punishment, then this would make him infinitely sadistic.
The implication of infinite punishment is an incredible one, because infinity is something so awesome no human can understand.
So then why would anyone want to be with an infinitely sadistic God?
I feel like killing Jesus myself, to be perfectly honest!! Give me some wood, some nails, and a hammer.
I am so angry at him!! He has caused me so much torture! No human being has abused me so much!!
And please nobody tell me that I need help. I feel that the great mass of people who do not think about eternity need help. It seems like this something on which existentialist thinkers agree. We all are called crazy.
Perhaps I have a different God than the rest of you. Mine is a sadistic and torturing beast, who is worse than Hitler. You others get the exact opposite.
I have to stop now as I am getting visibly upset.
Thank you and everyone else who tried to help me, but my existential crisis is way too deep to fix in one evening.
A perfect meme to placate the “no consequences” crowd.
In C.S. Lewis’ “The Screwtape Letters”, the Senior “tempter” (devil) has asked his nephew, who is in training, “What is the most important lie that we can convince humans of?”
Failing in his first few responses, the nephew asks his uncle to reveal the answer, to which the Senior Temptor responds “That we don’t exist!”
I never knew Socrates was a Christian theologian.
Its popular culture that has created the confusion and comical imagery of Heaven and Hell, not the Bible. Any sincere person seeking wisdom on the subject will clearly see God’s will, plan, and purpose for Hell in His Word.
The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. 2 Peter 3:9 NLT
When it comes to the free gift of Salvation, God is not the problem. Its pride, and the rebellious nature of man under the influence of the god of this world.
Being cut off from Light, Life, and Love Himself was a living hell for me. Spending eternity that way would be unimaginable. Its good to be a child of God and free from fear.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39 NIV
OK, looking through the various responses I received - and it was a tough choice, because there were several good ones - you win the prize for the most apropos reaction to the article.
Damon Linker truly is an idiot who thinks he isn’t.
I am afraid this is what we have come to in our era. It bodes ill.
That last said, having looked over all the replies, there is a certain sense in which Linker is simply an honest observer. If it is true that the “natural man does not receive the things of God,” (1 Corinthians 2:14) Linker appears to be one who simply does not get what he is looking at, rather like a goldfish in the aquarium in your home doesn’t get what he (or she) is looking at when you shake food into the aquarium, simply stand there and look at him/her or just pass out of sight into the kitchen, which of course the fish cannot imagine, never having seen a kitchen, much less taken in the view from your kitchen window into the world.
The trouble with the human perspective is that, uninformed by one who has been in the kitchen, so to speak, that is to say, by one who has seen what is outside of this creation (see John 1:18), the notion of God is informed entirely and only by what has been seen and heard and experienced from within this creation (what is within the aquarium). To think of God as One who is above us, who is able to look into our aquarium with understanding, as we are not able to do looking at His blurry and dimmed image outside, is a reality we are not ready to entertain.
That is the human dilemma. That is also the plain teaching of the Bible for anyone who cares to hear or read it.
That is the bottom line for us.
And yet this One whom we all have at times presumed to sit in judgment upon, even though by our own natural powers do not and cannot know Him, “so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son ...” (John 3:16)
And that is, unfathomably, the bottom line for the God of, yes, justice and yet even more, of mercy who is ... whether we believe He is or not.
The task given the church by her Lord is to bring this otherworldly knowledge to a world obsessed with its own wisdom and understanding. That is the part Mr. Linker does not and cannot understand. He is not alone in this.
Thanks, and God’s Peace be with you.
But God did create us as souls with a spirit and a body. That soul, once created, WILL continue forever. It is God's will, the Bible says, that all are saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. What is this "truth" God desires that we come to know? It is that He loved us and, that while we were YET sinners, Christ died for us. God offers to us eternal life with Him by His grace - meaning we don't deserve it, earn it, merit it or work for it. We receive this gift of eternal life through FAITH. We receive His gift BY believing in Him and trusting in Christ to be our Savior.
We have ALL sinned and fall short of the perfection of God and because of this, God's pure holiness cannot allow sin to be in His presence. We cannot save ourselves, no matter how good we think we are or have been, it is only by the shedding of blood (death) that sin is paid for. Christ made that payment for us, in our place. That is why we can KNOW we have eternal life when we believe God and accept His gift of everlasting life. Those who think they can earn their way to heaven by being good or doing good works, are every bit as much rejecting the grace of God as those who do so outright. Hell is the place where souls go who have rejected God's grace. They are, in essence, paying an eternal price for their sins - separation from God.
This doesn't make God "sadistic", just the opposite, when we understand just how much He loves us and wants us to be with Him, we can come to know the joy and peace of knowing our Creator and walking in fellowship with Him both here and for eternity. It's a GOOD thing that you are aware of your need to know God and I will pray for you that you open your heart to Christ and diligently seek to know the truth. God is a rewarder of all those who do.
Amen! One of my favorite passages in Scripture.
Just BELIEVE in Him!
If you don’t want to worship Jesus on Earth, what makes you think you will want to worship him in Heaven? Do you invite people into your home with whom you have no relationship or have mocked or ridiculed you? Those mansions are reserved for His children not any Tom, Dick or Harry.
bfl
Very true, however an "act" isn't the proposition. Getting into heaven in Christian theology is based on one single thought you have at the moment of the your death. Your entire life is essentially irrelevant; it's what you think and if you accept the Christian story that matters. If you do, great; if you don't, you're fried.
Silliness if you ask me.
All they did “wrong” was not want to be ruled over. They wanted their freedom, I suppose.
Can't argue with that. The whole idea is inherently authoritarian.
Who makes the decision? What “evidence” would you expect of hell?
There are people who have near-death experiences who said they went to hell.
From a theological perspective, why would someone who "nearly died" see hell? Seems contradictory to me.
This is what hell must be if God is truly good.
I know what hell here on earth is like but I have no more idea of the eternal hell than any one else.
The name Israel means “wrestles with God”.
He prefers people who wrestle with him over people who ignore Him.
AMEN.
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