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Shouldn't Bible-believing church leaders be speaking up on "sainthood"? (vanity)

Posted on 04/27/2014 3:47:28 PM PDT by Faith Presses On

With it so much in the news right now that the Catholic Church is making two former Popes "saints." shouldn't Bible-believing Christians, and those in leadership in particular, be pointing out the Bible truth on who is a saint is? The media won't do this themselves, and the Catholic use of "saint" has caused a lot of ignorance on this most important matter.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: christiansaresaints; romancatholicism; sainthood; saintsinephesus; saintsinrome; saintssaluteyou; sectarianturmoil
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1 posted on 04/27/2014 3:47:28 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On

I’m not Catholic and its not my place to try to impose my beliefs on them.


2 posted on 04/27/2014 3:51:25 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Faith Presses On; KingOfVagabonds; Berlin_Freeper; UnRuley1; mlizzy; mc5cents; RichInOC; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

3 posted on 04/27/2014 3:52:14 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Faith Presses On

Unless you are Catholic, it should be none of your business.


4 posted on 04/27/2014 3:52:40 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Faith Presses On

Ignore it if it bothers you.


5 posted on 04/27/2014 3:52:46 PM PDT by notaliberal (St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle,)
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To: Faith Presses On

If Catholics wanted the truth, they would look it up and believe the scriptures. Their belief in saints is irrelevant if they don’t have saving faith in Christ alone for salvation.


6 posted on 04/27/2014 3:56:35 PM PDT by aimhigh (John 14:21)
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To: Faith Presses On

I agree with several posters below - not my business.


7 posted on 04/27/2014 3:56:39 PM PDT by arderkrag (To conquer oneself is a greater task than conquering others. - Buddha)
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To: Faith Presses On

Clarification needed?

The RC church claims that all persons who have lived their lives in a state of genuine belief in Jesus Christ as their savior - and - have strived toward holiness in their lives, following biblical, Christian guidelines, are saints. We assume such people have met the requirements of Jesus Christ and have been judged worthy of entrance into paradise. More simply put, they are people who have been met the requirements and whose “robes have been washed with the blood of the Lamb.”

Canonization is a separate issue. It recognizes the public lives of persons with heroic virtue. Such persons are worthy of imitation in their holiness. The actual process, however, does require several steps before their names are accepted as “official saints.”


8 posted on 04/27/2014 3:57:06 PM PDT by Gumdrop (~)
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To: Faith Presses On

It’s never our place, as Christians, to impose beliefs.


9 posted on 04/27/2014 3:59:06 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: Faith Presses On

Amen! In the New Testament, a saint was a plain, old, ordinary Christian, who was a saint because he was sanctified, that is, set apart for the service of God.

When Paul wrote the church at Philippi (Phil. 1.1), he wrote to the saints there, with the bishops and the deacons, an organization so simple that it could be described in one verse of scripture. In all likelihood, he wasn’t addressing Roman Catholic saints who had been dead for a long time, had performed several miracles, and voted on by the College of Cardinals...

Ya think?


10 posted on 04/27/2014 4:00:17 PM PDT by FNU LNU (Nothing runs like a Deere, nothing smells like a john)
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To: Faith Presses On

Catholics do a lot of silly things. I choose not to worry about them. It’s between them and The Lord. It’ll all get worked out eventually.


11 posted on 04/27/2014 4:00:29 PM PDT by Ramius (Personally, I give us one chance in three. More tea anyone?)
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To: aimhigh

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem;
Creatorem caeli et terrae.

Et in Jesum Christum,
Filium eius unicum, Dominum nostrum;
qui conceptus est
de Spiritu Sancto,
natus ex Maria virgine;
passus sub Pontio Pilato,
crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus;
descendit ad inferos;
tertia die resurrexit a mortuis;
ascendit ad caelos;
sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis;
inde venturus est
iudicare vivos et mortuos.

Credo in Spiritum Sanctum;
sanctam ecclesiam catholicam;
sanctorum communionem;
remissionem peccatorum;
carnis resurrectionem;
vitam aeternam. Amen.

In English:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ,
his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
and born of the Virgin Mary,
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
He descended into hell.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
he will come again
to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy Catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen


12 posted on 04/27/2014 4:01:59 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Faith Presses On
Catholic Church is making two former Popes "saints."

The Catholic Church doesn't "make" anyone a saint, she only recognizes what God has done, testifies to it, and celebrates it.

The term "saint" comes from a French word, which comes from the Latin word meaning "holy". A "saint" is therefore a "holy person" or "holy one" ... in languages other than English, there is typically no linguistic difference between those two terms.

The word is used in Scripture both in reference to what Christians are called to be here and now, and in reference to departed believers (cf Matthew 27:52) and all believers.

13 posted on 04/27/2014 4:03:20 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Faith Presses On

There is a wonderful hymn from my Episcopal chip hood called

I Sing a Song of the Saints of God

That is the proper and true answer as to who is a saint.


14 posted on 04/27/2014 4:03:51 PM PDT by Nifster
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To: Faith Presses On

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/church/chur3.htm

Lesson 3

GOD’S CALLED-OUT ASSEMBLY
THE CHURCH

Church Members Were Called “Saints.”

[To see an organizational outline of these lessons, click here]
http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/church/outline.htm

According to 1 Corinthians 14:33 and 2 Corinthians 13:13 the members of the Church are called _____________. The word “saint” means “a person who has been set apart by God, set apart for God’s service.” Not only are the members of the Church a called-out people (1 Pet. 2:9), but they are also a set apart people (1 Cor. 1:2).

Suppose you were sitting in an auditorium with thousands of other people, waiting to hear a speech by the President. Suddenly the President walks all the way up to the place where you are sitting, takes you by the hand, leads you to the platform, and sits you down right next to him! By doing that he has set you apart from all the other people. He has put you in a very special place and he has made you different than all the other people who were there.

When God saves a person He sets him apart and He makes him (or her) sit in a very special place. Where is the believer made to sit (Eph. 2:6)? ____________________________________________ He has been put in a very special place—in Christ Jesus—and thus God has made the believer DIFFERENT than all the unsaved people.

“GOD HAS
SET ME APART
FOR HIMSELF.” “GOD HAS PUT
ME IN CHRIST
AND MADE ME DIFFERENT”
If I’m really a saint, should there be a difference in the way I live? Should there be a difference in the kind of language I use? Should there be a difference in the way I act in school? Should there be a difference in the way I dress? Should there be a difference in the way I talk to and treat my parents? Should there be a difference in the kind of friends I have (Psalm 119:63)?

?

If there is no difference between me and the unsaved then there is a big question as to whether or not I’m really a saint, whether or not I am really a member of Christ’s church (Compare Leviticus 20:24-26; Deuteronomy 7:6 and Ezekiel 22:26; 44:23).

If you are a saint then live like a saint! Dare to be different! (compare Daniel 1:8).

What are ways that a saved person can show that Christ has made a difference in his or her life? What about the language we use? How do we use our free time? What is our attitude towards those in authority over us (our parents, our teachers, etc.)? What is our attitude towards our friends, our classmates, those who mistreat us? What kinds of television programs do we watch or refuse to watch? What kinds of music do we listen to? Do we bow our head and pray before eating? Do we spend time reading God’s Word? Is prayer important to us or is it just a ritual that we do at meals and before we go to bed?

Has your life changed and become different because of the Lord Jesus Christ? See 2 Corinthians 5:17.

Is it possible for a saint (a saved person) to live like an unsaved person (1 Corinthians 3:1-4)? Why is this so? What should be done about it?

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/church/church.htm


15 posted on 04/27/2014 4:04:00 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Vaquero

It is the business of every called out person who has received the Holy Spirit at Salvation, IE every SAINT

That is what a Saint is

When someone hijacks the word, it becomes our business


16 posted on 04/27/2014 4:05:02 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Faith Presses On

Oh, for God’s sake. Can you let them enjoy their day?

It’s not your job to educate anyone.

I am so tired of the bible thumpers around here trying to force their view of the world on those who might not agree with them.

Can we take on the first amendment here: and let the freedom to practice your religion without four hundred posts debating the “true” meaning of the bible.

It is making this site unreadable.


17 posted on 04/27/2014 4:06:46 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Faith Presses On

the RCC teaches something different than the Bible on this:

http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

2156 The sacrament of Baptism is conferred “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”85 In Baptism, the Lord’s name sanctifies man, and the Christian receives his name in the Church. This can be the name of a saint, that is, of a disciple who has lived a life of exemplary fidelity to the Lord. The patron saint provides a model of charity; we are assured of his intercession. The “baptismal name” can also express a Christian mystery or Christian virtue. “Parents, sponsors, and the pastor are to see that a name is not given which is foreign to Christian sentiment.”86 (232, 1267)

Men are not sanctified by reciting Jesus name over them, especially infants who have no idea what is being done nor any meaning of it

Saints are NOT people who live meaningful lives, either, a person can be a wicked sinner such as the man in first Corinthians who had sex with his own mother yet Paul never once said his salvation was not real. A person becomes a saint at Salvation, not baptism or through faithful living.

As for the assurance of a ‘patron saint’ intercession, there is zero mention in the Bible of anyone’s promised prayers and intercession except Jesus Christ and the work of the Holy Spirit. We are called to pray for others, but there is zero guarantee of it.


18 posted on 04/27/2014 4:13:34 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Vermont Lt
It is making this site unreadable.

And yet you clicked on a post in the "Religion forum."

You know you can adjust your settings so these threads won't populate on your forum page right?

So, I agree with you that people should be able to exercise their 1st Amendment rights. They can post 1000 times on a thread in the Religion Forum if they want. They can use the forum to educate and discuss (not attack) if they wish. It's what the forum is for.

If the site is so unreadable, adjust it so it is - then you won't have to worry about it.

19 posted on 04/27/2014 4:13:45 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (Why are cops ROE more lenient against us, here in the US, than U.S. military's ROE's in a war zone?)
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To: narses

Matt 12:43 - 45.


20 posted on 04/27/2014 4:15:11 PM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Vermont Lt

I agree to leave the matter of Catholic Saints up to the Catholics.

But as equally bothersome is your “bible thumpers” comment.

It certainly isn’t your job to throw that insult around.


21 posted on 04/27/2014 4:17:08 PM PDT by Aurorales (I will not be ridiculed into silence!)
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To: Vermont Lt

Great post!


22 posted on 04/27/2014 4:18:06 PM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
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To: RaceBannon

“When someone hijacks the word, it becomes our business”

So the religion that essentially compiled the bible that you read, “hijacked” the word?

You wouldn’t have a Bible or the “Word”, had it not been for the Catholic Church. They pretty much own the intellectual property...


23 posted on 04/27/2014 4:20:18 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: RaceBannon

24 posted on 04/27/2014 4:21:08 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Thank you for your common sense response!


25 posted on 04/27/2014 4:23:13 PM PDT by RebelTXRose
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To: Vermont Lt

So, you can call people Bible thumpers but they have to keep quiet? sounds like a lib. No one made you click on this or any other thread.


26 posted on 04/27/2014 4:23:39 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: cripplecreek

I’m not Catholic either but that doesn’t mean I shouldn’t easily explain what a saint is. All Christians are saints.

See how easy that was?


27 posted on 04/27/2014 4:24:15 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Faith Presses On

I did speak up... on two threads labelled “Catholic Caucus”. I must give them credit for having a civilized conversation with me instead of telling me that I was not allowed to post in those threads.


28 posted on 04/27/2014 4:24:45 PM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Faith Presses On

All believers are saints.

And we’re all making it to heaven.

Catholicism is a religion based on being respecters of persons. God does no such thing.


29 posted on 04/27/2014 4:25:12 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: aimhigh

I have a polite suggestion.

Rather than ordering Catholics to “look it up”, why not point to the exact verse that give you such a strong belief.


30 posted on 04/27/2014 4:25:17 PM PDT by lacrew (Mr. Soetoro, we regret to inform you that your race card is over the credit limit.)
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To: Nifster

How about, “When the Saints go Marching in?”


31 posted on 04/27/2014 4:25:45 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: Responsibility2nd

Seems that the moral busybodies got it covered.


32 posted on 04/27/2014 4:27:20 PM PDT by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: metmom

“Catholicism is a religion based on being respecters of persons.”

Where did you dig that up? I’m Catholic and don’t respect anybody... 1/2/s


33 posted on 04/27/2014 4:28:33 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: RaceBannon; Faith Presses On
Catholics, too, believe that all the Lord's people, both here on earth, and those who have passed on to the life to come, are saints.

So actually, nobody "hijacked" the word. "Saints" means "holy ones." When I ask all saints to pray for me, I'll include you! We can pray for each other, can't we?

34 posted on 04/27/2014 4:29:35 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (To err is human, but to really foul up requires digital technology.)
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To: Vermont Lt
Can we take on the first amendment here: and let the freedom to practice your religion without four hundred posts debating the “true” meaning of the bible
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Would you recommend that our great grand kids make the same argument when Muslims are the majority and vote out the constitution?

35 posted on 04/27/2014 4:29:40 PM PDT by bramps (Go West America!)
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To: babygene

The RCC didn’t compile anything

The Jewish believers compiled the entire OT and the RCC had nothing to do with it, Faithful Jews did that and not the RCC at all.

The early Churches compiled Paul’s and Peter’s letters and John’s and Luke’s too, so the RCC had nothing to do with that, faithful Jews who believed on Jesus did that, too.

Since all the Books were already compiled before Constantine and the Churches already were telling people what is real, and all Constantine did was put a stamp on it, tell me just how the RCC had anything to do with something that it had nothing to do with?


36 posted on 04/27/2014 4:29:56 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: narses

37 posted on 04/27/2014 4:31:13 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Lk 16:31 And he said unto him If they hear not Moses and the prophets neither will theybe persuaded)
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To: Faith Presses On

Catholics believe that anyone who dies in the good Grace of God is a saint.

Does that bother you?


38 posted on 04/27/2014 4:31:18 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Vermont Lt; Faith Presses On

And yet here you are.... reading it.

If you don’t like it you can avoid the RF instead of choosing to get on it.

FWIW, the Catholic church has spent lots of time trying to impose its beliefs on others. Non-Catholics are told constantly that they must become Catholic to get to heaven, that in heaven everyone will be Catholic. And then there’s that pesky Inquisition thing.

Why don’t you go tell them to quit trying to impose their religion on others, threatening them with hell for not joining.

I don’t tell anyone they have to join the church I attend to get to heaven because salvation is through the person of Jesus Christ, not a religious denomination.


39 posted on 04/27/2014 4:31:40 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: cripplecreek
Ditto. I'm no longer a practicing Catholic (I'm a Christian, attend a Christian church) so I'm not comfortable "speaking out" against what the Catholic Church is doing.

The Catholic Church and its members should be as free as I am to practice my faith in Christ without intervention from other denominations.

Something about "removing the plank from one's own eye before attempting to remove it from other's (eyes)" is appropriate here IMO.

40 posted on 04/27/2014 4:33:36 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: metmom

Amen.


41 posted on 04/27/2014 4:33:44 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: metmom

And we’re all making it to heaven

............................

Even us proddies! Yes. I’ve been told that Catholics have allowed that non Catholics can go to Heaven.


42 posted on 04/27/2014 4:34:18 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: babygene
You wouldn’t have a Bible or the “Word”, had it not been for the Catholic Church. They pretty much own the intellectual property...

Nonsense. The RCC did not write the OT nor did it write the NT as the Catholic church wasn't around for a few hundred years.

GOD, not the Roman *church*, is responsible for giving us HIS word.

43 posted on 04/27/2014 4:34:20 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: RaceBannon

“Since all the Books were already compiled before Constantine and the Churches already were telling people what is real, and all Constantine did was put a stamp on it, tell me just how the RCC had anything to do with something that it had nothing to do with?”

Your willfully ignorant in such matters. I see no need to even talk to you on this subject.


44 posted on 04/27/2014 4:35:10 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Former Fetus
I did speak up... on two threads labelled “Catholic Caucus”. I must give them credit for having a civilized conversation with me instead of telling me that I was not allowed to post in those threads.

Well, that's a first.

45 posted on 04/27/2014 4:35:18 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: RaceBannon

The saints in your opinion would be whom? Does mother Theresa fit the Bill? She saved so many sick, poor and helpless.
Does John Paul 2 who fought the Godless communists from the pulpit while in Poland and risked soviet reprisals for his faith count ?

Maybe Martin Luther because he nailed his thesis to the cathedral? Sounds like destruction of property to me, but hey, the Catholic Church needed a kick in the pants at that time, selling indulgences etc.

In my RC parochial grade school, we were taught that saints were the people who made it to heaven. Those are the only saints. All others including those who have been given the title ‘Saint’. Are only given a title here on earth. They may or may not really be saints.


46 posted on 04/27/2014 4:35:25 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
Yes. I’ve been told that Catholics have allowed that non Catholics can go to Heaven.

Wow. How condescending of them to rub elbows with the unwashed.

47 posted on 04/27/2014 4:37:40 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: metmom

I was not reading your religious forum, but rather skimming all posts.

It’s funny, the only forum where I get nasty responses telling me not to read, is the RF. You guys are the least Christian people on FR.


48 posted on 04/27/2014 4:39:14 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: metmom

I’m just afraid that when I get to heaven I’m going to have all the saints asking me; “Hey man. How come you didn’t pray to me?”


49 posted on 04/27/2014 4:40:49 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Faith Presses On
I think you are referring to the Catholic’s use of “Patron Saints,” which seem to come into being once one of these people is made a “Saint.”

“Patron Saints” are supposedly entities you can pray to to intercede on your behalf with God. Although not biblical in any way, these entities can ‘put in a good word’ for you if, for instance, you are an “Anesthetist” and need help with your patient dosing (pray to Saint Rene Goupil) or if you have an issue with fuzzy caterpillars (pray to Magnus of Füssan), or even if you wanted to levitate (pray to any of these: http://saints.sqpn.com/saints-who-had-the-gift-of-levitation/).

Catholics get a lot more “bang for their bucks” than Protestants. Protestants merely pray to God through Christ.

Catholics appear to have a lot more "crazy" fun with God.

50 posted on 04/27/2014 4:41:22 PM PDT by ConservativeMind ("Humane" = "Don't pen up pets or eat meat, but allow infanticide, abortion, and euthanasia.")
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