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How the 'Jesus' Wife' Hoax Fell Apart
The Wall Street Journal ^ | May 1, 2014 | Jerry Pattengale

Posted on 05/05/2014 4:53:00 AM PDT by Gamecock

Then last week the story began to crumble faster than an ancient papyrus exposed in the windy Sudan. Mr. Askeland found, among the online links that Harvard used as part of its publicity push, images of another fragment, of the Gospel of John, that turned out to share many similarities—including the handwriting, ink and writing instrument used—with the "wife" fragment. The Gospel of John text, he discovered, had been directly copied from a 1924 publication.

"Two factors immediately indicated that this was a forgery," Mr. Askeland tells me. "First, the fragment shared the same line breaks as the 1924 publication. Second, the fragment contained a peculiar dialect of Coptic called Lycopolitan, which fell out of use during or before the sixth century." Ms. King had done two radiometric tests, he noted, and "concluded that the papyrus plants used for this fragment had been harvested in the seventh to ninth centuries." In other words, the fragment that came from the same material as the "Jesus' wife" fragment was written in a dialect that didn't exist when the papyrus it appears on was made.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 05/05/2014 4:53:00 AM PDT by Gamecock
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Useful talking points for talking with gullible neighbors or even fellow church goers.


2 posted on 05/05/2014 4:53:51 AM PDT by Gamecock (The covenant is a stunning blend of law and love. (TK))
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To: Gamecock

Well just say, Jesus has a wife already..........Called THE CHURCH.


3 posted on 05/05/2014 5:08:15 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Gamecock
"What is harder to understand was the rush by the media and others to embrace the idea that Jesus had a wife and that Christian beliefs have been mistaken for centuries."

Not so hard to understand when you consider that the media is heavily infected with the GLBTG crowd and those that agree with them and that to legitimize themselves they must destroy Christianity.

4 posted on 05/05/2014 5:09:11 AM PDT by fella ("As it was before Noah so shall it be again,")
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To: Gamecock

So this wasn’t just an error in judgment: it was an intentional fraud to discredit the font of Christianity. Now who, I wonder, would sponsor such deceit ...


5 posted on 05/05/2014 5:10:02 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: IronJack
So this wasn’t just an error in judgment: it was an intentional fraud to discredit the font of Christianity. Now who, I wonder, would sponsor such deceit...
It appears that the anonymous owner was responsible. However, the Harvard group that analyzed it was not careful enough.
6 posted on 05/05/2014 5:26:34 AM PDT by Tennessean4Bush (An optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds. A pessimist fears this is true.)
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To: Tennessean4Bush

Well, isn’t THAT convenient! An anonymous tipster ...

This farce was transparent from the outset. It was nothing more than a trial balloon sent up to see how much damage it could do to Christian orthodoxy.

And the so-called scientists at Harvard were complicit.


7 posted on 05/05/2014 5:46:56 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: Gamecock

It’s the annual lets-discredit-Jesus Easter hoax.


8 posted on 05/05/2014 5:52:02 AM PDT by all the best (sat`~!)
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To: Gamecock

Amazing revelation in this article. Thanks.

1. Someone in the 500’s AD found a way to write on paper that wasn’t made until the 700’s AD.

2. That scholars refused to reveal the data used to come to a phony conclusion.

3. That scholars appeared to declare “authentic” words about Jesus not written down until 500 or so years after He walked on earth.


9 posted on 05/05/2014 5:54:03 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: fella

At least this Easter, the hoax was Jesus was married rather than the more typical Jesus was gay or Jesus is still head and mouldering in a grave. I appreciate the change up.


10 posted on 05/05/2014 5:58:01 AM PDT by dangerdoc
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To: xzins

All of which is accurate, but the “scholars” get a free pass on number three all the time.

A single solitary fragment that was written 500 years after Jesus walked on the face of the eath is given the same status as the manuscripts that were penned in 90AD, of which thousands of copies that were written at the same time exist.


11 posted on 05/05/2014 6:03:50 AM PDT by Gamecock (The covenant is a stunning blend of law and love. (TK))
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To: Biggirl
Well just say, Jesus has a wife already..........Called THE CHURCH.

Amen. I am sure the human side of him yearned for the comfort of marriage. But knowing his mission and his ultimate fate, he knew how cruel and unfair it would have been to put a mate through that.


12 posted on 05/05/2014 6:09:31 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: Gamecock

They were very cagey about their use of the word “authentic” this time. After wading through the legalese of how it was worded, you discovered they were actually declaring authentic the age of the INK that was on the manuscript.

But the headline then could say, “Jesus Wife Fragment Declared Authentic” (or something like that)

And it’s headlines that people see and hear.


13 posted on 05/05/2014 6:10:54 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Gamecock
"Two factors immediately indicated that this was a forgery," Mr. Askeland tells me. "First, the fragment shared the same line breaks as the 1924 publication. Second, the fragment contained a peculiar dialect of Coptic called Lycopolitan, which fell out of use during or before the sixth century." Ms. King had done two radiometric tests, he noted, and "concluded that the papyrus plants used for this fragment had been harvested in the seventh to ninth centuries." In other words, the fragment that came from the same material as the "Jesus' wife" fragment was written in a dialect that didn't exist when the papyrus it appears on was made.

CBS went on to show images of what they say are entries from diary-like memoirs written in the days after the crucifixion of Christ by Thomas, one of Christ's 12 disciples. The documents were provided to CBS News by an anonymous source. The entry most damning to the Biblical resurrection story, according to CBS, is one that appears to have been written by Thomas at the end of the day on Sunday, April 12th, 0033, exactly one week after what would have been the very first Easter Sunday. That entry begins with the sentence, "Not much exciting happened today." The "today" referred to, if the documents are to be believed, would have been the day Thomas (known to most Christians as "Doubting Thomas") met a resurrected Christ and felt the nail holes in His hands and the wound in His side.
-- from the thread CBS News Claims Documents Disprove Christ's Resurrection

14 posted on 05/05/2014 6:11:36 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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15 posted on 05/05/2014 6:12:52 AM PDT by deoetdoctrinae (Gun-free zones are playgrounds for felons.)
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To: xzins

Wait until they find the old manuscript that establishes conclusively that Moses was a cross dresser and Bathsheba was actually the hunky husband of a powerful warrior woman.

Islamic texts remain untouched, though.


16 posted on 05/05/2014 6:13:47 AM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Ted Grant
Islamic texts remain untouched, though.

I think the media is actually atheistic, so the reason they attack Christianity is they know the Islamic texts are so anti-historical and anti-intellectual that they'll be easy to take down if they can first destroy Christianity by lying about our authentic history.

They view Islam as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Islam they see as the enemy of Christianity, therefore their friend, so they let them continue killing Christians and wiping out Christian populations.

They think Islam will then be easy pickings since it so obviously built on stupidity and emotion.

17 posted on 05/05/2014 6:18:42 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

I disagree. They know that if they anger and alienate Jews and Christians, the worst that will happen is that they will have some protesters on their doorstep that will pray for them.

Alienating and angering Muslims has more dire consequences.


18 posted on 05/05/2014 6:21:12 AM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Tennessean4Bush

They were as careful as anyone that wants what they found to be true more than they want to find the Truth.


19 posted on 05/05/2014 6:25:46 AM PDT by hometoroost
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To: Ted Grant

I agree that Islamics are more violent and that that is one reason they don’t take them on right now.

But, I also believe they want to take down Christianity first. Islam is built on phony emotionalism and they know it, and they think that the takedown of Islam will be a piece of cake once they get rid of the real enemy.

For me, I hearken back to the words about the anti-Christ, that he will NOT worship the god of his fathers, but will worship a god of ‘forces’.

He’ll not be Islamic, he’ll not be Christian, he’ll not be ANY formerly worshipped deity. Instead, the AC will “worship” raw power and wealth.

Daniel 11: 37 He will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. 38 Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his fathers he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts.

Revelation 13: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast,saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


20 posted on 05/05/2014 6:34:53 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Gamecock

The tendency of secularist media to simultaneously declare the bible a fraud but lift up any fragment however tenuous as evidence of flawed doctrine is an indication of their open hostility and desire to corrupt Christianity if they can not outright destroy it. It is being increasingly done already under the auspices of a warped grace doctrine that translates grace into not a door to forgiveness for sin but as an endorsement and embracing of sin especially in the areas of sexual sin which is entirely contrary to the core of Christian doctrine and is dangerous particular in the denial of free will with ‘born this way’ propaganda. Christianity is a way out of sin though we may be born into it. Not a way to take pride in our sinful weaknesses and excesses.


21 posted on 05/05/2014 6:37:44 AM PDT by Maelstorm
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To: xzins

concur


22 posted on 05/05/2014 6:52:06 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: xzins

Fair enough, but that could be next week or 3,000 years from now, so I am reluctant to rely on it here and now.


23 posted on 05/05/2014 6:55:33 AM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Ted Grant

Perhaps a few hundred, but not 3000.


24 posted on 05/05/2014 6:58:17 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

***Islam is built on phony emotionalism***

As is much of American Christianity.

From a spiritual perspective I’m more worried about that the the Muzzies.


25 posted on 05/05/2014 7:00:06 AM PDT by Gamecock (The covenant is a stunning blend of law and love. (TK))
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To: Gamecock

I’m not talking about the current practice of Christianity; I’m talking about the historic evidence for the validity of Christianity.


26 posted on 05/05/2014 7:03:54 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Biggirl
Well just say, Jesus has a wife already..........Called THE CHURCH.

It doesn't say this anywhere in the Bible.

We discover in Revelation 21 that the Holy City, "New Jerusalem", is prepared as a bride. The Lamb's bride and wife is called "New Jerusalem."

9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. (Revelation 21:9-14)

"Oh, but that's 'the church'", you will say. The Bible speaks of "churches", not a universal "church." Loose construction leads to false doctrines which play into Satan's plans for the "man of sin", "son of the perdition" who will be the head of this "church." We already see many antichrists in the world -- the "pope" and his "priests" (we have no mediator between God and men but the man Christ Jesus-- 1 Timothy 2:5), Joseph Smith, the muslim's coming Immam, ..., any man who claims to be God's "anointed one." This one will make war on the saints (believers who are alive at that time).

New Jerusalem is a place wherein will dwell every believer/saint who trusts in the finished work of Jesus Christ (the death, burial and resurrection -- what the Bible calls the Gospel), trusting not in our own works, but resting in his.

Christians must know the Bible, not the doctrines of men, and be prepared for the "time is at hand." Here are some good places to start:

After the Tribulation

Revelation 1 (Sermon 1 of 22)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (Revelation 1:1-3)

27 posted on 05/05/2014 7:18:46 AM PDT by nonsporting
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To: xzins

No one knows the day but our Father, bro.


28 posted on 05/05/2014 7:20:40 AM PDT by Ted Grant
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To: Gamecock
However, the Harvard group that analyzed it was not careful enough.

How ironic wasn't there another Harvard group that gave Barack Hussein Obama a degree? He flunked lunch at Harvard and they still gave him a degree!

29 posted on 05/05/2014 7:26:52 AM PDT by missnry (The truth will set you free ... and drive liberals crazy!)
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To: Gamecock

Harvard.

I can’t think of much good that has come from that overpriced institution of educational debasement in the last 20 years.

That would be an interesting experiment - what good has come from Harvard in the last 20 years?


30 posted on 05/05/2014 7:28:42 AM PDT by RinaseaofDs (.)
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To: IronJack

wont be the last...


31 posted on 05/05/2014 7:32:54 AM PDT by Walkingfeather
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To: nonsporting

The Church, which is ALL of the Christian faith community is the “ New Jerusalem” in question.


32 posted on 05/05/2014 7:45:52 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: nonsporting

Take Post number 32 as a gentle correction.


33 posted on 05/05/2014 7:47:11 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Gamecock

Religion is not under attack. People like their religion. What’s under attack is Jesus Christ the Savior - the way, the truth, the life.


34 posted on 05/05/2014 7:51:20 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay (http://jonah2eight.blogspot.com/)
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To: Walkingfeather

To be sure. The Prince of Lies never sleeps.


35 posted on 05/05/2014 8:23:41 AM PDT by IronJack
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To: xzins
1. Someone in the 500’s AD found a way to write on paper that wasn’t made until the 700’s AD.

3. That scholars appeared to declare “authentic” words about Jesus not written down until 500 or so years after He walked on earth.

Inconclusive. What was written in 700 AD or in 500 AD could have been a copy of something written earlier, the original of which we don't have. I could hand copy Genesis on modern paper with modern ink and that wouldn't mean the content was wrong.

And no, I don't believe Jesus had a wife.

36 posted on 05/05/2014 9:52:30 AM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the and breadth of "ignorance. individual be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

Disagree.

My writing down the statement “Jesus was an epileptic” on this message board should have to be proven authentic and not disproven as inauthentic.

Additionally, since there is no previous information to that effect, then it should automatically be assumed to be inauthentic with a huge burden of proof on anyone claiming such to be the case, and especially if it includes my claim written in the year 2014, many years after His having been on earth.


37 posted on 05/05/2014 10:03:49 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Gamecock
Reminds me about Twain's comment on the shortening of the Mississippi, which concludes with ...

"Such large returns in conjecture, from so little investment in fact."

38 posted on 05/05/2014 12:00:32 PM PDT by publius911 ( At least Nixon had the good g race to resign!)
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To: Ted Grant
Islamic texts remain untouched, though.

Not exactly...

The Hadith jettisoned tens of thousands of verses of the then existing Korans.
The different versions of the quran had gotten out of hand --- 200 years after the child-rapist's death.

39 posted on 05/05/2014 12:06:18 PM PDT by publius911 ( At least Nixon had the good g race to resign!)
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To: xzins
Disagree.

If you're disagreeing with "Inconclusive", okay we can disagree.

If you're disagreeing with the rest of it, I used the word "could" to indicate possibility and therefore you seem to be disagreeing that what I posited is even possible. I suppose we can disagree on what is possible.

I was going to just let your post go, but you wrote:

My writing down the statement “Jesus was an epileptic” on this message board should have to be proven authentic and not disproven as inauthentic.

And:

Additionally, since there is no previous information to that effect, then it should automatically be assumed to be inauthentic with a huge burden of proof on anyone claiming such to be the case, and especially if it includes my claim written in the year 2014, many years after His having been on earth.

So, can you prove your statements:

"...should have to be proven authentic and not disproven as inauthentic."

"...there is no previous information to that effect..."

"...should automatically be assumed to be inauthentic with a huge burden of proof on anyone claiming such to be the case..."

40 posted on 05/05/2014 12:37:44 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the and breadth of "ignorance. individual be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

Jesus was not an epileptic.

That was the assertion. That is what I have to prove.

I can’t. No way to do it that I can see.

Jesus had a wife.

That was the assertion. That is what King had to prove.

She couldn’t. No way to do it that I can see.


41 posted on 05/05/2014 3:13:05 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins

Accurate enough, but evasive.


42 posted on 05/05/2014 5:07:50 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the and breadth of "ignorance. individual be those who don't.)
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To: KrisKrinkle

I dealt above board with the issues I suggested

I couldn’t prove as authentic the fact that Jesus was an epileptic.

I know of no previous information to that effect.

I can’t prove any of it, so it should be assumed to an inauthentic writing.


43 posted on 05/05/2014 5:35:38 PM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: xzins
I dealt above board with the issues I suggested

In your post 37 you made the following statements:

"...should have to be proven authentic and not disproven as inauthentic."

"...there is no previous information to that effect..."

"...should automatically be assumed to be inauthentic with a huge burden of proof on anyone claiming such to be the case..."

In my post 40 I wrote: "So, can you prove your statements:" followed by the list of your statements recorded directly above this paragraph. I was not asking about the "epileptic" or the "wife" parts. I was asking about your statements.

You responded with your post 41 which I found accurate enough, but evasive because it did not respond to what I was asking about in my post 40.

44 posted on 05/05/2014 7:41:23 PM PDT by KrisKrinkle (Blessed be those who know the and breadth of "ignorance. individual be those who don't.)
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To: Tennessean4Bush

“However, the Harvard group that analyzed it was not careful enough.”

What a dilemma, as it is their “education” that is responsible for their carelessness.


45 posted on 05/05/2014 11:25:02 PM PDT by ourworldawry
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To: Gamecock

Same institution which allowed Obama to pass no is exposed to another fraud.


46 posted on 05/05/2014 11:36:16 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: KrisKrinkle
He's not the one evading, his point is crystal clear.

You're the one who is giving reality a way to stretch itself into something else.

47 posted on 05/05/2014 11:46:29 PM PDT by Lakeshark (Mr Reid, tear down this law!)
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To: hometoroost
They were as careful as anyone that wants what they found to be true more than they want to find the Truth.


48 posted on 05/06/2014 12:23:05 AM PDT by uglybiker (nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!)
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To: KrisKrinkle

I made those statements about Ms King’s claim that Jesus was married.

She would have prove that claim by those methods.

Are you asking me to prove that those standards I came up with are valid or rational?


49 posted on 05/06/2014 3:19:44 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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