Vatican statistics report Church growth remains steady worldwide

The Catholic Register ^ | 5/5/15 | Carol Glatz

[Mrs. Don-o]

Don't want to be pedantically tiresome, but this whole argument is based on a category mistake.

The Catholic Church doesn't have a policy of mandatory clerical celibacy (which I keep saying --- hey, is anybody listening?)

Almost all of our Latin Rite permanent deacons (Western Church) are married clergy, and there are in the USA, more married deacons (15,000) than there are priests in religious orders like the Jesuits, Franciscans, etc. --14.000.)

Moreover only one of the 22 Churches have a historic tradition of celibacy (the Latin Rite). All the others --- yes, Catholics, under the Pope (Bishop of Rome) ---traditionally ordain priests from the ranks of married men, unless they are monks.

So, theologically, the Catholic Church does not have mandatory clerical celibacy.

If I were a married man and I felt I had a vocation to Holy Orders, I would pursue this either in the Lay Diaconate or, say, aim for priesthood with the Byzantine-Melkites. And yes, people do this.. For instance, Fr, Emmanuel McCarthy, married, father of 12, Catholic priest.)

Why don't more Catholic men pursue this? I don't know, but possibly because they understand themselves to be called to celibate Catholic priests?

[Mrs. Don-o]

Yes, but it wouldn’t have to be so, canonically.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I’m quite in accord with the tradition and discipline of priestly celibacy. No argument here.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

“...they (priests) lived with their wives and raised families. In practice, ordination (to the priesthood) was not an impediment to marriage, therefore some priests did marry even after ordination. The tenth century is claimed to be the high point of clerical marriage in the Latin communion (Catholic Church). Most rural priests were married and many urban clergy and bishops had wives and children.” Source: Wikipedia.com-—look up clerical celibacy. Further, you can do as I did: Go to your local library and sign out books on this topic.

Even more annoying is the fact that many theologians-—most notably St. Jerome and St. Damian even attempted to rewrite the Bible to further enforce their prudish devotion to celibacy. The Bible clearly states that Jesus had brothers and sisters, which is what you would expect considering that Mary and Joseph were a happily married couple. But St. Jerome twists the meaning of the Bible when he came up with the ridiculous idea that Bible “meant” to say they were his cousins. Truly outrageous to do that.

Then, later in 19th Century, you had Pope Pius IX develop this yarn that Mary herself was born of an immaculate conception, which of course there is no mention of such an occurrence in the Bible. This same pope also developed the concept of “Papal Infallibility” -—perhaps so no one would question some of his theories and pronouncements.

I am a loyal and faithful Catholic and love my Church and practice my faith. But NO church has the right to rewrite history or rewrite the Bible. The Lord commands us to be fruitful and multiply. He created Eve because He did not want Adam to be alone. We are supposed to CELEBRATE and create life, not to be celibate. Celibacy may be part of the Church’s plan-—it was introduced in the Middle Ages to fight corruption and nepotism-—but it is certainly NOT God’s plan. Let’s please stick to what is in the Bible and not make things up.

[Salvation]

Your opinion? If not, please source it.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

I DID source it. Look up clerical celibacy in Wikipedia.com.

[Salvation]

Thanks, most people put their source with the article the copied.

[Salvation]

Thanks, most people put their source with the article he copied.

[BlatherNaut]

Let’s please stick to what is in the Bible and not make things up

By all means. Anyone who reads the Bible knows that mocking celibacy ("prudish devotion to celibacy") is mocking the example of Our Lord.

But NO church has the right to rewrite history or rewrite the Bible.

How is it possible to accuse the Church of rewriting history or the Bible and ridicule celibacy (which ALL unmarried Catholics are called to practice) yet remain a "loyal and faithful Catholic"?

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

My dear friend, it is rewriting history and rewriting the Bible when the following false claims are made:

1) That Mary was ALWAYS a virgin. Wrong! She was happily married to Joseph and they had other children mentioned in the Bible.

2) That Mary herself was conceived of an immaculate conception. Sheer nonsense. There is no mention of this in the Bible.

3) That mandatory clerical celibacy is something advocated in the Bible. Wrong! Priests in the Bible were married men. As were priests, bishops, and popes in the Catholic Church for at least the first ten centuries of the Church’s existence.

As Sgt. Joe Friday would say, “Just the facts,please.”

[Solson]

the FACT remains THERE IS NO PROOF allowing Married Priests means there would be more OR BETTER of them. There would be no Bible without Tradition.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

And in the early tradition of Church history, popes, bishops and priests were married men.

Mandatory clerical celibacy was introduced much later-—around the late Middle Ages. The policy was implemented largely as measure to fight corruption and nepotism which was rampant in the Church at that time.

[BlatherNaut]

1) That Mary was ALWAYS a virgin. Wrong! She was happily married to Joseph and they had other children mentioned in the Bible.

"After the birth of our Lord, although the Gospels do not give us many details of His childhood, no mention is made of Mary and Joseph ever having other children. Never does it refer to the "sons of Mary" or "a son of Mary," but only the son of Mary.

This point is again corroborated at the crucifixion scene: Before He dies, our Lord says to Mary, "Woman, there is your son," and then to St. John, who is definitely not a blood brother, "There is your mother."

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0090.html

2) That Mary herself was conceived of an immaculate conception. Sheer nonsense. There is no mention of this in the Bible.

"Proof from reason"

"There is an incongruity in the supposition that the flesh, from which the flesh of the Son of God was to be formed, should ever have belonged to one who was the slave of that arch-enemy, whose power He came on earth to destroy. Hence the axiom of Pseudo-Anselmus (Eadmer) developed by Duns Scotus, Decuit, potuit, ergo fecit, it was becoming that the Mother of the Redeemer should have been free from the power of sin and from the first moment of her existence; God could give her this privilege, therefore He gave it to her. Again it is remarked that a peculiar privilege was granted to the prophet Jeremiah and to St. John the Baptist. They were sanctified in their mother's womb, because by their preaching they had a special share in the work of preparing the way for Christ. Consequently some much higher prerogative is due to Mary. (A treatise of P. Marchant, claiming for St. Joseph also the privilege of St. John, was placed on the Index in 1833.) Scotus says that "the perfect Mediator must, in some one case, have done the work of mediation most perfectly, which would not be unless there was some one person at least, in whose regard the wrath of God was anticipated and not merely appeased."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

That mandatory clerical celibacy is something advocated in the Bible.

The Lord's perfect example is sufficient.

[Trapped Behind Enemy Lines]

OK. Try reading Mark 6:3

“Is not this (Jesus) the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us? And they took offense at him.”

As for your second point, someone concocted that gobbledygook. The ONLY Immaculate conception mentioned in the Bible is that of Jesus, not His mother.

As far as your third point Jesus never said that you had to be celibate in order to become a priest. No where in the Bible is there such a mandate. The Church implemented mandatory celibacy in the Middle Ages as a response to rampant corruption, nepotism, and simony.

So....PLEASE....let’s stick to the FACTS and not make up a lot of nonsense out of whole cloth.

Many ancient religions, such as the ancient Roman, Greek, and Egyptian religions were based largely on myths, legends, and fables. The Judeo-Christian tradition is based upon HISTORY-—real people who lived in a real time period, and did real things. Let’s not make up a lot of nonsense which simply isn’t true.

I first learned that Jesus had brothers and sisters in a Bible Study class taught by a CATHOLIC priest. I am thankful to this day that he taught the Bible as it is written and did not make up things which simply aren’t there.