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Rebuilding the temple in Jerusalem?
The Deseret News ^ | May 3, 2014 | William Hamblin and Daniel Peterson

Posted on 05/07/2014 8:26:24 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

The dramatic recent collapse of the Arab-Israeli peace talks and the ongoing political turmoil involving the Temple Mount have again focused world attention on the centuries-old struggle for that sacred site. Since antiquity, the roughly 37 acres of the Temple Mount and its immediate surroundings have frequently been the focus of interreligious strife.

The destruction of the Jewish temple by the Romans in A.D. 70 was a devastating event in the history of Judaism. It served as a transforming catalyst in both the origins of Christianity and the transition of Israelite religion from a priestly sacrifice-centered system to the legalistic text-centered religion of rabbinic Judaism as we know it today. Ever since that catastrophic year, many Jews have longed for the restoration of their lost temple.

During the centuries after its destruction, Jews made three major attempts to rebuild the temple at Jerusalem. The first was the messianic movement of Shimon Bar Kokhba from A.D. 132-135. His efforts were cut short by the overwhelming victory of the Roman emperor Hadrian, who altogether expelled the Jews from Jerusalem and built a temple to Jupiter on the site of the ancient house of the Lord....

(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...


TOPICS: History; Islam; Judaism; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: danielpeterson; gershonsalomon; godsgravesglyphs; hadrian; israel; judaism; letshavejerusalem; romanempire; templemount; thirdtemple; why; williamhamblin
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Daniel C. Peterson, professor of Islamic studies and Arabic at BYU, is editor-in-chief of the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative and a blogger for Patheos. William Hamblin is a professor of history at BYU and co-author of “Solomon's Temple: Myth and History.” Their views do not necessarily represent those of BYU.
1 posted on 05/07/2014 8:26:24 AM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Been hearing rumors about Israelis stockpiling materials to rebuild the Temple since late 1967 after they captured east Jerusalem.

Ain’t gonna happen. The Temple Mount is under Muslim control (voluntarily ceded by Israel) and the Dome of the Rock plus the Al-Aqsa mosque would have to be razed to make room for the new Temple.

Sorry, folks.


2 posted on 05/07/2014 8:35:52 AM PDT by elcid1970
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To: elcid1970

Uh-huh....

2 Thessalonians 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:4 - Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Still in the future, so it will be rebuilt. Just a matter of time.


3 posted on 05/07/2014 8:53:36 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Where the God of Abraham, his friend, makes a stand count on the "world" to immediately camp out all over the top of it.

However patient the present landowner may be, there is a lien on the Title granting a kind of perpetual easement. Those parties are both capable and righteous in taking possession at any time.

Those anxious about rebuilding fail to see their resemblance to Abraham "working out God's will" in a tent with his wife's slave girl. Ultimately, God does not need any of our help in defending his claims or reputation.

When Jesus prophesied the destruction of Jerusalem he was quite specific. "No one stone," he said of Herod's "improvements" on Nehemiah's "Second Temple."

"As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." - Luke 21:6

Last time I looked, and that was just yesterday, interestingly enough, the Wailing Wall, including the incredibly heavy "Western Stone" was still standing.

I sometimes wonder how many Christians' of nominal faith would melt away if (or when) God "watching over his word to perform it" does not fulfill in a manner consistent with what they've been taught.

4 posted on 05/07/2014 9:11:13 AM PDT by Prospero (Si Deus trucido mihi, ego etiam fides Deus.)
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To: elcid1970

I have also read that the Temple could be built beside the Dome of the Rock. The Temple is not very big so it would fit on the site easily.


5 posted on 05/07/2014 9:20:06 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Prospero
I sometimes wonder how many Christians' of nominal faith would melt away if (or when) God "watching over his word to perform it" does not fulfill in a manner consistent with what they've been taught.

Yup--that's why the Pharisees hated Him, and that's why most Jews refuse to accept Christ.

6 posted on 05/07/2014 9:20:54 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Don’t rely on Mormonism for Biblical history.


7 posted on 05/07/2014 10:10:41 AM PDT by iowamark (I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy)
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To: Prospero

>>>Last time I looked, and that was just yesterday, interestingly enough, the Wailing Wall, including the incredibly heavy “Western Stone” was still standing.<<<

I, like many Jews, believe the so-called “Wailing Wall” is actually part of the old Fort Antonia, and not a part of the old temple complex. Therefore, the prophecy of Jesus was fulfilled in AD 70.

Philip


8 posted on 05/07/2014 10:25:48 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Try selling that to the muzzies who control the Temple Mount.

BTW I would never discount Biblical prophecy. It’s just that current politics in Israel don’t favor rebuilding the Temple.

I would love to see the Dome of the Rock & Al-Aqsa mosque obliterated. Of course I also would like to see the Kaaba & the Grand Mosque of Mecca blown sky high but that’s a different subject, sort of.


9 posted on 05/07/2014 10:37:57 AM PDT by elcid1970
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To: elcid1970

The temple is in all modules sitting in storage for years. It is going up at God`s will. Never think it will not be rebuilt. You would be wrong.


10 posted on 05/07/2014 10:43:37 AM PDT by bmwcyle (People who do not study history are destine to believe really ignorant statements.)
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To: StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ...
Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.

11 posted on 05/07/2014 2:16:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; SunkenCiv

Very interesting. I believe the Third Temple will be built but the rest of the thought, I will keep to myself.

History has a way of validating the Biblical prophecies.

Thanks for the ping, SC.


12 posted on 05/07/2014 2:33:54 PM PDT by Monkey Face (Thank God we don't look like what we've been through!)
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

The only “temple of God” that exists since Jesus died on the cross is the Church, which is the Body of Christ on earth.

any building purporting to be the temple of God, built by people who reject Jesus as Messiah CAN NOT BE THE TEMPLE OF GOD.


13 posted on 05/07/2014 2:57:34 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; one Lord one faith one baptism; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; ...

Sometime in the second half of this century — the first of many many large scale off world migrations will begin. (ie it might be nearer to 2050 and it might be nearer to 2090. Right now we are in the midst of accelerating technological development so there is a time compression currently extant for events. The more and longer this compression extends — the sooner starts the migrations.)

To many eyes these migrations will look as star tingly like signs of the world’s end as did 60 years ago —the birth of Israel. That is, these migrations will look like something they might have read from the Left Behind series. Or if they’d read the bible — something out of the book of Revelations.

I don’t know that this will be true. The same sort of mystery of those leaving and those staying behind has been felt by all peoples around the world going back five centuries between those who have come to the New World and those who stayed home.

There will be the same great break between those who stay on earth and those who go into space.

Life is a journey. Its commonly pointed out these days that Abraham begins the specifically Jewish part of Genesis when he is called to a westward migration by God.

There are parts of Abraham’s journey —including faith in things unseen— there are very much like the stories of people coming to america several hundred years ago.

(these day people who migrate to the new world —have seen pictures and movies and videos offline online in detail. So its not the same.)


14 posted on 05/07/2014 3:28:46 PM PDT by ckilmer
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To: ckilmer

15 posted on 05/07/2014 4:09:04 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: elcid1970

Although it would not follow the historical precedent of the temple on the Temple Mount, why couldn’t the Israelis find a new site and build a new temple in Jerusalem.

For example, build up an area next to the Temple Mount along the Wailing Wall and build it to a height slightly above the Temple Mount. Eventually it would be known as the Temple Mount after a couple of thousand years, give or take.


16 posted on 05/07/2014 4:11:52 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: elcid1970
Ain’t gonna happen. The Temple Mount is under Muslim control (voluntarily ceded by Israel) and the Dome of the Rock plus the Al-Aqsa mosque would have to be razed to make room for the new Temple.

OK, so un-cede it, knock down the Dome, and build the Temple.

Israel doesn't have "eminent domain"?

17 posted on 05/07/2014 4:12:06 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: PhilipFreneau; Prospero

18 posted on 05/07/2014 4:12:13 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: bmwcyle
>>>The temple is in all modules sitting in storage for years. It is going up at God`s will. Never think it will not be rebuilt. You would be wrong.<<<

The so-called "third temple" might be built, but not by God's will. It is not prophesied anywhere in either the old or new testaments; so the pretense has been squeezed (e.g., spiritualized) out of the text.

The following passage in Ephesians identifies the true holy temple of the Lord, of which all Christians are a part:

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." (Eph 2:19-22 KJV)

Paul also identified the holy temple in the Corinthians:

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor 3:16-17 KJV)

The holy temple is also identified in the Revelation of Jesus Christ as being located in the holy city, New Jerusalem (the Church;) and, again, it is not a physical building of any sort:

"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22 KJV)

The same was also mentioned in the Acts:

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;" (Acts 17:24 KJV)

Philip

19 posted on 05/07/2014 4:55:55 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: wildbill
The specific area of the Jewish Temple, its very location, is overwhelmingly fundamental to its very existence.

Isiah 66:1 This is what the LORD says (to David): "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?

David built the Temple so that God would have a place to rest on Earth. That place is the holiest site for Judaism and is the very basis for its structure. Jews are still forbidden today to walk above on the Temple Mount because that is where God's Spirit had taken up to rest as signs in several languages give ample warning to all. God's resting place is what anchors the Temple and which is its raison d'etre for having been constructed.

Where is this specific site where the Jewish God rested?? It's the exact same spot where these G-d dammed misbegotten Muslims decided to build their Whore house of prayer, the Dome of The Rock, exactly right on top of the spot where the Jewish God's Spirit rested.

So, if you want a Jewish Temple that exists, is built according to the specifications, protocols in which God's Spirit would rest as it did in the previous two Temples, you're not going to build it in Short Hills, New Jersey, just like you won't build a Lincoln Memorial in Astana, Kazakhstan, it's capital city.

20 posted on 05/07/2014 5:03:34 PM PDT by lbryce (Barack Hussein Obama:The Worst is Yet to Come)
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To: PhilipFreneau
All your arguments assume that chrstianity is true and that the "new testament" is genuine Divine revelation.

You probably have never even considered this, but neither of these is self-evident.

21 posted on 05/07/2014 5:03:59 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; SunkenCiv
The specific area of the Jewish Temple, its very location, is overwhelmingly fundamental to its very existence.

Isiah 66:1 This is what the LORD says (to David): "Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. Where is the house you will build for me? Where will my resting place be?

David built the Temple so that God would have a place to rest on Earth. That place is the holiest site for Judaism and is the very basis for its structure. Jews are still forbidden today to walk above on the Temple Mount because that is where God's Spirit had taken up to rest as signs in several languages give ample warning to all. God's resting place is what anchors the Temple and which is its raison d'etre for having been constructed.

Where is this specific site where the Jewish God rested?? It's the exact same spot where these G-d dammed misbegotten Muslims decided to build their Whore house of prayer, the Dome of The Rock, exactly right on top of the spot where the Jewish God's Spirit rested.

So, if you want a Jewish Temple that exists, is built according to the specifications, protocols in which God's Spirit would rest as it did in the previous two Temples, you're not going to build it in Short Hills, New Jersey, just like you won't build a Lincoln Memorial in Astana, Kazakhstan, it's capital city.

22 posted on 05/07/2014 5:07:46 PM PDT by lbryce (Barack Hussein Obama:The Worst is Yet to Come)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism

Call it whatever you want—IT will be rebuilt. Just a matter of time, whenever the next ME war begin and Israel destroys the Arab coalition in “Palestine”, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt.

The people you say that reject Jesus will accept Him in huge numbers actually—Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah all say it.


23 posted on 05/07/2014 5:21:42 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

>>>All your arguments assume that chrstianity is true and that the “new testament” is genuine Divine revelation. You probably have never even considered this, but neither of these is self-evident.<<<

No, I have never even considered it. I am no fool.

Philip


24 posted on 05/07/2014 5:56:55 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Roman_War_Criminal

>>>Revelation, Daniel, Ezekiel, Isaiah all say it.<<<

Please cite those verses/passages. Thanks.

Philip


25 posted on 05/07/2014 5:58:58 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PapaBear3625

“Israel doesn’t have “eminent domain”?”

Nope. Soon after east Jerusalem was captured in 1967, the Israelis gave the Arab Muslims police authority over the Temple Mount, in an attempt to win the muzzies over.

Really worked out, hasn’t it?

Most Israelis believe that if Al-Aqsa & the Dome were blown up that a billion enraged muzzies would rise up & overrun the land of Israel in a giant tsunami of smelly flesh.


26 posted on 05/07/2014 5:59:03 PM PDT by elcid1970
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To: Monkey Face

Thanks M!


27 posted on 05/07/2014 6:00:59 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv

For lack of a better term, it’s ‘Face. And I’ll see you on FB!


28 posted on 05/07/2014 6:08:12 PM PDT by Monkey Face (You may find yourself in the middle of nowhere. In the middle of nowhere you may find yourself.)
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To: elcid1970

Israel did not turn over the Temple Mount to Muslims in an attempt to ‘win muzzies over’.

Israel hurriedly surrendered the Temple Mount to prevent expected Messianic fervor for a rebuilt Temple that would arise with Jewish sovereignty over it.


29 posted on 05/07/2014 6:14:18 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: PhilipFreneau

If you read Daniel 9:25, he talks about 70 weeks. At the time Christ was crucified, the clock stopped at the 69th week. The last “seven” or week cannot start until the “he” who is the AntiChrist confirms the covenant in Daniel 9:27 for one “seven”. These are the last seven years before the 2nd coming of Christ. The soon to be built temple is mentioned in this passage. It cannot refer to the old temple destroyed by the Romans because there was never a “covenant” back then. Daniel 12:11 also refers to the abomination in the temple where the AC demands worship of himself instead of God.

Isaiah 17 must happen before all of that though (see the oracle against Damascus).

Maybe this link will help?

http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-temple.html

Daniel and Revelation are mirrors of each other in a lot of ways.


30 posted on 05/07/2014 6:25:03 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: jjotto

Whose “Messianic fervor”?

Specifics, please.


31 posted on 05/07/2014 6:41:24 PM PDT by elcid1970
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To: SunkenCiv

https://www.templeinstitute.org/temple_mount.htm


32 posted on 05/07/2014 6:41:54 PM PDT by Pelham (If you do not deport it is amnesty by default.)
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To: elcid1970
the Dome of the Rock plus the Al-Aqsa mosque would have to be razed to make room for the new Temple.

And that would be a bad thing because?...

I'll go on record and say that some strategically placed high explosives would do wonders for any mosque. They already contain plenty, why not detonate them in place?

33 posted on 05/07/2014 7:03:40 PM PDT by zeugma (Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss (I'll see you again someday Hope))
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To: lbryce
>>>David built the Temple so that God would have a place to rest on Earth.<<<

And God destroyed it, twice. The last time he made it clear that he had rejected Israel and their religion by his complete desolation of Jerusalem and the surrounding areas. God also broke any ties he had to the old order (e.g., to Israel as his chosen people) by taking his kingdom away from Israel and giving it to all nations: Jews and Gentiles (Mat 21:43.) That fulfilled God's promise to Abraham (Gen 22:18) that through Abraham's seed (Jesus Christ - Gal 3:16) all nations would be blessed. This was accomplished by rendering all who believe in Christ as Abraham's seed, and therefore heirs to the promise (Gal 3:29.) In doing so, God also made void any genealogical claims.

>>>Jews are still forbidden today to walk above on the Temple Mount because that is where God's Spirit had taken up to rest as signs in several languages give ample warning to all. God's resting place is what anchors the Temple and which is its raison d'etre for having been constructed.<<<

God's Spirit now rests in the Church, which is also called New Jerusalem. There is no longer any need for a physical temple since all who believe in Christ are now a part of the holy temple (Eph 2:19-22.) The following passages explain the temple part, and also that God has made all nations to be "one blood," thus tearing down the wall between Jews and Gentiles:

"Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are." (1 Cor 3:16-17 KJV)

"God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;" (Acts 17:24-26 KJV)

"But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father." (Eph 2:13-18 KJV)

"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Rom 10:12-13 KJV)

Joel mentioned the second part when prophesying the destiny of the remnant of Israel who Christ called to be his elect:

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call." (Joel 2:32 KJV)

Philip

34 posted on 05/07/2014 7:05:41 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: elcid1970

http://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/s99-yc.htm

http://www.redstate.com/diary/jeffdunetz/2010/05/10/obamas-fight-over-jerusalem-its-all-moshe-dayans-fault/


35 posted on 05/07/2014 7:15:07 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
>>>If you read Daniel 9:25, he talks about 70 weeks. At the time Christ was crucified, the clock stopped at the 69th week. The last “seven” or week cannot start until the “he” who is the AntiChrist confirms the covenant in Daniel 9:27 for one “seven”. These are the last seven years before the 2nd coming of Christ. The soon to be built temple is mentioned in this passage. It cannot refer to the old temple destroyed by the Romans because there was never a “covenant” back then. <<<

There is not one shred of evidence supporting the new-age, dispensational "stopped-clock" theory. It can only be derived by spiritualizing the scriptures.

Only seventy weeks (490 years) were determined: not thousands of years. The seventy weeks were fulfilled three and one-half years after Christ was crucified. In fact, the scripture plainly states that Christ arrived at the end of the 69th week. Since his ministry lasted one-half week (3.5 years,) that would leave only one-half week (3.5 years) to fulfil the prophecy. The only part left to be fulfilled within the seventy weeks was the remaining 3.5 years of confirmation of the covenant, which his disciples fulfilled for him (while seeking the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and prior to beginning their ministries to the Samaritans and Gentiles.)

The punishment phase (the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 by the Roman armies of Titus) was not part of the seventy weeks. Only the six items in 9:24 required fulfillment within the seventy weeks!


>>>Daniel 12:11 also refers to the abomination in the temple where the AC demands worship of himself instead of God.<<<

That prophesy was fulfilled by Antiochus IV around 145 BC. Jamieson, Fausset & Brown explained it this way:

    "As to this epoch, which probably is prophetically germinant and manifold; the profanation of the temple by Antiochus: (in the month Ijar of the year 145 B. C., till the restoration of the worship by Judas Maccabeus on the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month (Chisleu) of 148 B. C., according to the Seleucid era, 1290 days; forty-five days more elapsed before Antiochus’ death in the month Shebat of 148 B. C., so ending the Jews’ calamities;" [Commentary, Old Testament Vol II - Proverbs to Malachi]

Note the remarkable exactness of the fulfilled dates! The prophecy states:

    "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days." (Dan 12:11-12 KJV)

Amazing! The daily sacrifice was restored on day 1290, and the tyrant, Antiochus IV, died on day 1335.

Josephus also wrote about the reign of Antiochus:

    "AT the same time that Antiochus, who was called Epiphanes, had a quarrel with the sixth Ptolemy about his right to the whole country of Syria, a great sedition fell among the men of power in Judea, and they had a contention about obtaining the government; while each of those that were of dignity could not endure to be subject to their equals. However, Onias, one of the high priests, got the better, and cast the sons of Tobias out of the city; who fled to Antiochus, and besought him to make use of them for his leaders, and to make an expedition into Judea. The king being thereto disposed beforehand, complied with them, and came upon the Jews with a great army, and took their city by force, and slew a great multitude of those that favored Ptolemy, and sent out his soldiers to plunder them without mercy. He also spoiled the temple, and put a stop to the constant practice of offering a daily sacrifice of expiation for three years and six months. But Onias, the high priest, fled to Ptolemy, and received a place from him in the Nomus of Heliopolis, where he built a city resembling Jerusalem, and a temple that was like its temple concerning which we shall speak more in its proper place hereafter." [Josephus, Wars of the Jews I.1.1]

Matthew Henry wrote:

    "The event fixed from which the time of the trouble is to be dated, from the taking away of the daily sacrifice by Antiochus, and the setting up of the image of Jupiter upon the altar, which was the abomination of desolation." [Commentary on the Whole Bible Volume IV (Isaiah to Malachi)]


Anyway, the so-called "Anti-Christ" in Daniel 12 died about 145 BC. When Jesus spoke of the Abomination of Desolation in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, he was referring to Antiochus IV. The disciples could not possibly know what the Dan 9:27 abominations were referring to at that time since they were not fulfilled until AD 70.

Philip

36 posted on 05/07/2014 7:48:55 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
>>>Isaiah 17 must happen before all of that though (see the oracle against Damascus).<<<

The destruction of Damascus occurred during the reign of Ahaz, king of Judah:

   "So Ahaz sent messengers to Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, saying, I am thy servant and thy son: come up, and save me out of the hand of the king of Syria, and out of the hand of the king of Israel, which rise up against me. And Ahaz took the silver and gold that was found in the house of the Lord, and in the treasures of the king's house, and sent it for a present to the king of Assyria. And the king of Assyria hearkened unto him: for the king of Assyria went up against Damascus, and took it, and carried the people of it captive to Kir, and slew Rezin. And king Ahaz went to Damascus to meet Tiglathpileser king of Assyria, and saw an altar that was at Damascus: and king Ahaz sent to Urijah the priest the fashion of the altar, and the pattern of it, according to all the workmanship thereof." (2 Kin 16:7-10 KJV)

Note that while Isaiah gave us wonderful prophecies of the coming of Christ, he also prophesied about events that occurred during his own time period:

   "The vision of Isaiah the son of Amoz, which he saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah." (Isa 1:1 KJV)

Philip

37 posted on 05/07/2014 7:58:43 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: lbryce

I guess I should have titled my post “A Modest Proposal”


38 posted on 05/07/2014 8:04:28 PM PDT by wildbill
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To: Roman_War_Criminal
>>>http://www.gotquestions.org/end-times-temple.html<<<

That link simply referred to several passages which have been spiritualized to make them appear to refer to a third temple. There are no prophecies about a third temple. None.


>>>Daniel and Revelation are mirrors of each other in a lot of ways.<<<

In some ways, yes. But I doubt they relate in ways that you think. For example, the resurrection mentioned in Daniel 12:1-2 was only for Daniel's people. Guess who Daniel's people were? This is the passage:

   "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Dan 12:1-2 KJV)

That resurrection was only for the children of Israel. Note also that during the resurrection, some went to heaven, and some went to hell. How does that fit into the dispensational scheme?

Philip

39 posted on 05/07/2014 8:11:17 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau
"And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it." (Rev 21:22 KJV)

True...Jesus is the non physical spiritual temple...It is most definitely NOT the Catholic church or any particular religion...

The 3rd Temple is a physical temple...It is not Jesus Christ...It is Solomon's Temple, rebuilt...With the throne of David...

40 posted on 05/07/2014 9:07:13 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: Iscool

>>>The 3rd Temple is a physical temple...It is not Jesus Christ...It is Solomon’s Temple, rebuilt...With the throne of David...<<<

Where can I find the third temple and a future, earthly throne of David in the scriptures. Something that significant should have many clear references.

Philip


41 posted on 05/07/2014 11:38:55 PM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: PhilipFreneau

If you’re not willing to read and actually study scripture then there’s not point in us even discussing this.

When did Damascus cease to become a city and get obliterated?

Has an A/C and his false prophet ever demanded worship and kill everybody he possibly could who doesn’t take his mark worldwide?

Has the 2 million man army written about in Revelation 9:16 ever come to take on Israel?

There’s not one shred of evidence that these have come to pass. Your theories are flawed. Antiochus IV was never even close to what the real deal will ever be—not even by a long shot.


42 posted on 05/08/2014 5:33:10 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: PhilipFreneau

Right....
Damascus is still very much alive and populated.

17 A prophecy against Damascus:

“See, Damascus will no longer be a city
but will become a heap of ruins.”

That means it will no longer be inhabited...ever.

What’s so hard to understand about that?


43 posted on 05/08/2014 5:35:06 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: PhilipFreneau

This is about as clear as it can get.

Note—Jesus said these words and your “A/C” Antiochus IV Epiphanes was already dead by two centuries when this was spoken.

Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18 and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19 And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20 Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. 22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.”

Note: The Holy Place is the Temple (3rd Temple).

I’m not Catholic, so that’s probably where we have just have to agree to disagree.


44 posted on 05/08/2014 5:42:46 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: PhilipFreneau

Daniel 12:1-2 refers to the tribulation when it states “and there shall be a time of trouble such as never was since”.

Michael is the designated Protector of Isreal, he always has been and always will be (even now).

IMO the part where it states, “and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book”. This refers to the Final White Throne Judgement.

The resurrection hasn’t happened yet—if it has it was never documented and you, me and everybody else living since that event is SOL.

Since you think Prophecy has already been fufilled, tell me why this hasn’t Isaiah 11 happened yet?


45 posted on 05/08/2014 5:52:31 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal (Bible Summary in a few verses: John 14:6, John 6:29, Romans 10:9-10)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
any building purporting to be the temple of God, built by people who reject Jesus as Messiah CAN NOT BE THE TEMPLE OF GOD.

you are completely wrong
jesus was a JEW. why do jews reject jesus?
because CHRISTIANS have made him into someone else

46 posted on 05/08/2014 8:34:43 AM PDT by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
All your arguments assume that chrstianity is true and that the "new testament" is genuine Divine revelation.

You probably have never even considered this, but neither of these is self-evident.


"Christianity" has fallen in the same way the Jews fell.
the Jews did not recognize their messiah, because he did not fit their pre-existing expectations.
Jesus was a JEW, so Christians have made him into someone else. They also no longer know their messiah.

the "New Testament" is only commentary on the Torah. the Torah is the most important. Jesus said, if you dont believe Moses, you will not believe me.
47 posted on 05/08/2014 8:39:43 AM PDT by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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To: PhilipFreneau
he had rejected Israel and their religion

do you know what 'forever' means? does God break his promises?

if so, why do you follow a God that cannot keep his promises?
48 posted on 05/08/2014 8:41:22 AM PDT by wafflehouse (RE-ELECT NO ONE !)
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To: wildbill

:-)


49 posted on 05/08/2014 1:36:54 PM PDT by lbryce (Barack Hussein Obama:The Worst is Yet to Come)
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To: PhilipFreneau

The Jews didn’t, don’t accept the New Testament Jesus had made known to the world and have not, did not acknowledge him as Messiah, Savior. Therefore, from the Jewish perspective the quotations you utilize as quoted in the New Testament in nullifying God’s relationship with the Jewish people and that of the Temple as being sole heirloom of the Jewish people have no bearing on the way the Jewish people see their destiny.


50 posted on 05/08/2014 1:48:32 PM PDT by lbryce (Barack Hussein Obama:The Worst is Yet to Come)
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