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Justin Martyr and Supersessionism
Theological Studies ^ | Michael Vlach

Posted on 05/11/2014 1:50:36 PM PDT by wmfights

Justin Martyr (A.D. 100–165) is important in the history of supersessionism because he was the first Christian writer to explicitly identify the church as “Israel.”[1] Justin declared, “For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham . . . are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.”[2] He also said, “Since then God blesses this people [i.e., Christians], and calls them Israel, and declares them to be His inheritance, how is it that you [Jews] repent not of the deception you practise on yourselves, as if you alone were the Israel?”[3] Justin also announced that, “We, who have been quarried out from the bowels of Christ, are the true Israelite race.”[4]

For Jeffrey S. Siker, “Justin is a transitional figure”[5] in the development of supersessionism. Justin does not mark the beginning of supersessionism, but he does openly advocate a replacement approach concerning Israel and the church that had been forming for nearly a century: “Justin marks the end of an era, the culmination of a process in formative Christianity that had begun much earlier.”[6] Justin’s hermeneutical approach to the Old Testament was also important in the development of supersessionism. He reapplied Old Testament promises so that the church, not Israel, was viewed as the beneficiary of its promised blessings. Justin declared to Trypho: “And along with Abraham we [Christians] shall inherit the holy land, when we shall receive the inheritance for an endless eternity, being children of Abraham through the like faith. . . . Accordingly, He promises to him a nation of similar faith, God fearing, righteous . . . but it is not you, ‘in whom is no faith.’”[7] Siker adds, “According to Justin, the patriarchal promises do not apply to the Jews; rather, God has transferred these promises to the Christians and . . . to Gentile Christians in particular.”[8]

[1] Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho 11, The Ante-Nicene Fathers, eds. Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1950–51), 1:200. See also, 1:261, 267. Peter Richardson has observed that the first explicit identification of the church as “Israel” was made by Justin Martyr in A.D. 160. See Peter Richardson, Israel in the Apostolic Church (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press), 1.

[2] Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho 11, ANF 1:200.

[3] Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho 123, ANF 1:261. He also says, “Those who were selected out of every nation have obeyed His will through Christ . . . must be Jacob and Israel.” (1:265).

[4] Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho 135, ANF 1:267.

[5] Jeffrey S. Siker, Disinheriting the Jews: Abraham in Early Christian Controversy (Louisville, KY: Westminster/John Knox, 1991), 15.

[6] Ibid., 16.

[7] Justin, Dialogue With Trypho 119, ANF 1:259.

[8] Siker, 14. Diprose asserts that Justin “adopts a typically Greek attitude” toward the characters in the Old Testament, referring to Abraham, Elijah, and Daniel’s three friends as “barbarians.” Ronald E. Diprose,Israel in the Development of Christian Thought (Istituto Biblico Evangelico Italiano, 2000), 79.


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism; supersessionism
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Justin Martyr (A.D. 100–165) is important in the history of supersessionism because he was the first Christian writer to explicitly identify the church as “Israel.”

It's hard not to notice that this radical view emerged after the Apostolic Era ended.

1 posted on 05/11/2014 1:50:36 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights; Kandy Atz; Mrs.Z; CynicalBear; Iscool; amigatec; kjam22; boatbums
Dispensational Caucus ping

If you would like to be added to this ping list please mail me.

2 posted on 05/11/2014 1:53:27 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: wmfights
It didn't just emerged after the apostles. It is in the scriptures and was the teaching of the church. The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Rather the church IS Israel. Justin Martyr simply happened to be the first to write about what everyone knew was the teaching of scripture and of the church.

We are saved by grace through faith just like our father Abraham. We will dine with our father Abraham. We were aliens from God's chosen nation but now we are made part of that chosen nation through Christ. As Paul writes:

Our nation is not here.

3 posted on 05/11/2014 2:07:31 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: wmfights

Here is what the Apostle Paul had to say:

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
—Romans 2:28-29


4 posted on 05/11/2014 2:08:53 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: wmfights

This view is put forth by non-Catholics.

http://www.theologicalstudies.org/about/statement-of-faith


5 posted on 05/11/2014 2:09:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: HarleyD

Indeed. We’ve been grafted in.


6 posted on 05/11/2014 2:10:14 PM PDT by .45 Long Colt
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To: wmfights

Ping me, please


7 posted on 05/11/2014 2:28:34 PM PDT by imardmd1 (Fiat Lux)
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To: wmfights

I think “supersession” is the wrong term.

The Church did not replace or supersede the Jews. The Church fulfilled God’s covenant with the Jews, and fulfilled many of the signs and prophecies in the Old Testament.

Numerous times in the Old Testament, God says that His Covenant with Israel is forever. And St. Paul repeats that same promise in one of his Epistles.

Many early Christians thought that the Jews would just fade away, after God made his new Covenant with His Church. But they did not, and I think a fair consideration of history reveals that God still keeps His first Covenant with those Jews who keep the faith.


8 posted on 05/11/2014 2:33:48 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: wmfights

Many of the Jews Jesus referred to did say “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” before they died, and they were counted as remnant - the 144,000 present at the wedding feast.


9 posted on 05/11/2014 3:07:57 PM PDT by impactplayer
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To: wmfights; HarleyD

Justin Martyr was not the first Christian writer to identify the Church as Israel, that honor belongs to Paul:

Galatians 6:16 “peace and mercy be upon all who walk by this rule, upon the Israel of God”

earlier in Galatians 3:29, we find “and if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise”.


10 posted on 05/11/2014 3:29:16 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: wmfights
Justin Martyr (A.D. 100–165) is important in the history of supersessionism because he was the first Christian writer to explicitly identify the church as “Israel.”[1] Justin declared, “For the true spiritual Israel, and descendants of Judah, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham . . . are we who have been led to God through this crucified Christ.”

There's Paul, too.

11 posted on 05/11/2014 3:30:32 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Lee N. Field; wmfights

see post #10


12 posted on 05/11/2014 3:35:26 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: Salvation
This view is put forth by non-Catholics.

http://www.theologicalstudies.org/about/statement-of-faith

Not news.

Theological Studies.org appears to be the personal site of the author, who is associated with John McArthur's Master's Seminary. American Protestant, conservative, Baptist, and apropos to this thread, dispensationalist.

Just glancing over it, he appears to have an obsession with "supersessionism".

13 posted on 05/11/2014 3:35:40 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Cicero
Many early Christians thought that the Jews would just fade away, after God made his new Covenant with His Church. But they did not, and I think a fair consideration of history reveals that God still keeps His first Covenant with those Jews who keep the faith.

The covenant with Abraham, that Christians are explicitly part of.

Apart from Christ there is no salvation. In Christ, the old barriers are done away with.

14 posted on 05/11/2014 3:37:36 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: one Lord one faith one baptism
Many early Christians thought that the Jews would just fade away, after God made his new Covenant with His Church. But they did not, and I think a fair consideration of history reveals that God still keeps His first Covenant with those Jews who keep the faith.

Check the time stamps. Your post is 1.25 minutes ahead of mine.

15 posted on 05/11/2014 3:39:18 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: Cicero
Posting the truth about Justin Martyr

The saint who was one of the earliest Fathers of the Church
Justin Martyr: 1st apology: Sacraments, Eucharist {Catholic/Orthodox caucus}
Justin Martyr Walks a Tightrope
Church History, Justin Martyr, Preeminent Apologist
The First Apology of St. Justin Martyr, Early Church Father (long)
St. Justin Martyr: He Considered Christianity the “True Philosophy” (March 21, 2007)
Justin Martyr on Christian worship - (the earliest record of Christian worship)
Orthodox Feast of Martyr Justin the Philosopher and those with him at Rome
St. Justin Martyr

16 posted on 05/11/2014 3:51:51 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: HarleyD
The church doesn't "replace" Israel. Rather the church IS Israel.

Not quite; the Church is the Church, and Israel is Israel, until the end when all Israel shall be saved. The Israel of God are the foundation of the Church, those Jews (apostles, prophets, and disciples) who were redeemed by the LORD and believed in the Messiah, the Holy One of Israel. But if one really feels strongly he is Israel he can always take the slings and arrows directed against actual Israel. It's too late to go back to the 1930s but there are millions of moslems in the world waiting to kill you. There is an adversary intent on annihilating Israel and thwarting God's divine mercy.

17 posted on 05/11/2014 3:53:59 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Lee N. Field

Check the time stamps. Your post is 1.25 minutes ahead of mine

I did, I guess great minds think alike. :)


18 posted on 05/11/2014 3:57:06 PM PDT by one Lord one faith one baptism
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To: af_vet_1981
The nation of Israel eventually became a paganistic nation sacrificing their children to the god of Molech, just as Moses had foretold. Only a remnant remained of those who believed by faith in God our Lord by His grace. We are what remains of that remnant.

As far as Israel taking the slings and arrows, one should examine what our dear Christian brothers and sisters are going through today and their persecution.

19 posted on 05/11/2014 4:25:08 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: wmfights
If God did not keep his covenant with the Jews, why should he keep it with the Church? The Church's adoption of Homosexual marriage, false teachers, false prophets, and other abominations certainly disqualifies us?

Hosea chapter 1 shows that God used the Jews rejection of the Messiah to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles. We are grafted in to believing Israel. However this does not supercede his covenant with the Jews, who will again become "His" people (Hosea chapter 1) and be grafted into the believing remnant.

The "time of the gentiles" is at its end. He will again turn his face back to Israel, whom he has gathered from the 4 corners of the earth. I hope that the Rapture is the event that kicks this off.

Question: for my replacement theology friends. If the New Covenant nullifies the biblical promises made to the children of Israel, including the Abrahamic Covenant, the Land Covenant, and the Davidic Covenant, why would God honor the covenant with the Church given the great apostasy of our day?
20 posted on 05/11/2014 4:31:25 PM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: HarleyD
The nation of Israel eventually became a paganistic nation sacrificing their children to the god of Molech, just as Moses had foretold. Only a remnant remained of those who believed by faith in God our Lord by His grace. We are what remains of that remnant.

No, Israel did not become a Gentile nation. It does not matter what some Israelites/Jews/Israelis have done. It matters what God does. God made an eternal covenant with Israel and He is not finished with Israel. Israel remains Israel, the physical descendants of Jacob, and as the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

As far as Israel taking the slings and arrows, one should examine what our dear Christian brothers and sisters are going through today and their persecution.

Yes, persecution is very real for some Christians in pagan nations like North Korea, and in much of the Islamic world. The persecution is more nuanced in the postChristian/neoPagan/secular nations of the West. I meant if you really want to identify yourself as Israel, then you should suffer the same persecution as Israel. If you are a man, being a Christian does not make you a woman or vice a versa. You should dress like a man. Cross dressing would be inappropriate. So in this world, we still have Jews and Gentiles, men and women, and to some extent bond and free.

21 posted on 05/11/2014 4:41:28 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: .45 Long Colt

“Indeed. We’ve been grafted in.”

Hence my screen name. :)


22 posted on 05/11/2014 4:49:26 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: af_vet_1981
God made an eternal covenant with Israel and He is not finished with Israel. Israel remains Israel, the physical descendants of Jacob, and as the Apostle to the Gentiles wrote As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Blood line had nothing to do with being part of Israel. The promise of a great nation WASN'T given to Jacob-it was given to Abraham. The apostle Paul also wrote the following:

And, as Paul points out, there were many children of Abraham but only a few children of the promise. And Israel is a type of what God had in mind.

So the real question is who are the children of the promise?

23 posted on 05/11/2014 5:01:41 PM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: HarleyD
Blood line had nothing to do with being part of Israel. The promise of a great nation WASN'T given to Jacob-it was given to Abraham. The apostle Paul also wrote the following:

And further:

Jacob is one of only three in the Scriptures who were called tam or its plural, tamim (perfect). Noah, Job, and Jacob were tam while Abraham was

So it makes sense to see Jacob as perfect in the same sense as Noah, Job, and Abraham (who was commanded to be tamim).

Now, for righteousness' sake, let's include Daniel to see what a high standard the word indicates.


24 posted on 05/11/2014 5:25:29 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: af_vet_1981
I left off the reference for tamim; here it is. tamim
25 posted on 05/11/2014 5:27:17 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Jan_Sobieski
Question: for my replacement theology friends. If the New Covenant nullifies the biblical promises made to the children of Israel, including the Abrahamic Covenant, the Land Covenant, and the Davidic Covenant, why would God honor the covenant with the Church given the great apostasy of our day?

What you-all (in general, not necessarily you in particular) want is it fulfilled in a very particular way, not accepting any other answers.

Abrahamic Covenant

Fulfilled in Christ. Those who are of faith are heirs.

"the Land Covenant"

(Ignoring for the moment that it's not a covenant in its own right, but a part of God's very different covenants with Abraham and through Moses) Romans 4:13, expanded to include the world, applied to Abraham and his seed.

Davidic Covenant

Fulfilled in Christ, the ultimate Davidic heir.

26 posted on 05/11/2014 5:38:31 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: af_vet_1981

Noach was only perfect in his GENERATION, which doesn’t say much.


27 posted on 05/11/2014 6:05:21 PM PDT by hecht (america 9/11, Israel 24/7)
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To: hecht
Noach was only perfect in his GENERATION, which doesn’t say much.

The testimony in Ezekiel about Noah, Daniel, and Job speaks volumes. We should honor and love those whom God loves.

28 posted on 05/11/2014 6:53:02 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Jan_Sobieski
Great post

Hosea chapter 1 shows that God used the Jews rejection of the Messiah to bring the Gospel to the Gentiles. We are grafted in to believing Israel. However this does not supercede his covenant with the Jews, who will again become "His" people (Hosea chapter 1) and be grafted into the believing remnant.

Romans 11 offers a great follow up to your point.

Rom. 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

In order for supersessionism to become a popular interpretation the whole process for understanding Scripture had to change. We see this begin with Justin Martyr. A literal reading of Roms. 11:25 makes it clear that God is not done with Israel.

29 posted on 05/11/2014 6:54:07 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: imardmd1
Done!

Look forward to your input.

30 posted on 05/11/2014 6:54:49 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: HarleyD
Blood line had nothing to do with being part of Israel. The promise of a great nation WASN'T given to Jacob-it was given to Abraham.

Ezekiel 28:25
'Thus says the L-rd G-D, "When I gather the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and will manifest My holiness in them in the sight of the nations, then they will live in their land which I gave to My servant Jacob."

Isaiah 49:6
He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also make You a light of the nations so that My salvation may reach to the end of the earth."

Micah 4:2
Many nations will come and say, "Come and let us go up to the mountain of the L-RD And to the house of the G-d of Jacob, That He may teach us about His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion will go forth the Torah, even the word of the L-RD from Jerusalem.


31 posted on 05/11/2014 7:26:13 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Cicero
If there were only Christians, if all Jews accepted Christ, then would there be no more Jews?
All Jews are not necessarily Semitic any more. The ARABS still are.

I always thought that being Jewish was a FAITH not a race/nationality. There ARE a ton of Arab Israelis in Israel, doing the work that the Jewish Israelis don't want to do--farming, washing toilets, etc.

When I took a tour of the Holy Land (Steve & Janet Ray tour) in 2011 our guide for part of the way was a Palestinian Arab Catholic. Nice guy.

32 posted on 05/11/2014 8:14:37 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: wmfights

I’ve read about him. Wonderful read.


33 posted on 05/11/2014 8:15:08 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
“Indeed. We’ve been grafted in.”

We are grafted into the root...We are not grafted into the branches...

The root is not Israel...We are not grafted into Israel...The root is Jesus Christ...

34 posted on 05/11/2014 8:41:38 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: Lee N. Field
(Ignoring for the moment that it's not a covenant in its own right, but a part of God's very different covenants with Abraham and through Moses) Romans 4:13, expanded to include the world, applied to Abraham and his seed.

Romans 4:13 has nothing to do with the land covenant...

The land covenant was given only to Jacob's seed...Not to all of the seed of Abraham...

Gen 35:10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
Gen 35:12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.

Gen 48:3 And Jacob said unto Joseph, God Almighty appeared unto me at Luz in the land of Canaan, and blessed me,
Gen 48:4 And said unto me, Behold, I will make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, and I will make of thee a multitude of people; and will give this land to thy seed after thee for an everlasting possession.

(Ignoring for the moment that it's not a covenant in its own right, but a part of God's very different covenants with Abraham and through Moses) Romans 4:13, expanded to include the world, applied to Abraham and his seed.

Of course it's a covenant in its own right...And not to be ignored...It's a covenant made with Jacob's seed thru Abraham...It doesn't include all of Abraham's seed...Never will...It's a land covenant that has not yet been fulfilled...

Davidic Covenant

Fulfilled in Christ, the ultimate Davidic heir.

That's absurd...Jesus never sat on the throne of David and he is not right now...Jesus is sitting on 'his Father's throne' and will not sit on the throne of David til he shows up after the Tribulation...

David's throne is a physical throne on a piece of land in Israel in a temple that has not yet been rebuilt...

Abrahamic Covenant

Fulfilled in Christ. Those who are of faith are heirs.

And unlike the land covenant, this covenant includes all the descendants of Esau and Jacob who are spiritually in Jesus; Chinese, Jewish, Arabs, Africans; Gentile and Jew alike, for the is no difference spiritually, in Jesus Christ...

Outside of Jesus Christ there is still a world of difference between Jew and Gentile, Jacob and Esau......

35 posted on 05/11/2014 9:43:33 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: af_vet_1981
Jacob is one of only three in the Scriptures who were called tam or its plural, tamim (perfect). Noah, Job, and Jacob were tam while Abraham was

Edited for what I meant to write:

Jacob is one of only three in the Scriptures who were called tam (perfect). They are Noah, Job, and Jacob. Abraham was called to be its plural, tamim.

36 posted on 05/12/2014 4:25:18 AM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: Tzfat; af_vet_1981
Look, we can pick and choose verses until the cows come home. Paul clearly explains in practically the entire last half of Romans (9-11) that Gentiles are grafted into the nation of Israel and that many "Israelites" do not belong to Abraham. The whole purpose of Romans 9 is to tell Gentiles they are part of the Abrahamic covenant.

And Romans 11 goes even further:

The Jews are blinded because of their unbelief. We are graffed in.

We are that "foolish" nation.

Honestly, I don't know how much clearer it has to be. Some simply want to throw out Romans 9-11 or ignore it. I wouldn't recommend it.

37 posted on 05/12/2014 5:00:55 AM PDT by HarleyD ("... letters are weighty, but his .. presence is weak, and his speech of no account.")
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To: HarleyD

Picking and choosing verses, spiritualizing, and redefining words, are what supercessionists and other judeophobes are best at.


38 posted on 05/12/2014 5:15:11 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat
The next thread in this series will be on Origen, which leads right to your point.

The spiritualizing, allegorical interpretation, and redefining of words didn't start until after the Apostolic Era ended. Prior to this change the approach was first literal. If we return to this approach so much more becomes clear. One example of this is the Book of Revelation. Once we recognize it is about God opening Israel's eyes it makes sense.

39 posted on 05/12/2014 6:52:09 AM PDT by wmfights
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To: Iscool

My screen name is not “I am grafted into the branches”.

“Now if some of the branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive branch, have been grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, ....”

One grafts branches.
Also, the root was Jesse, from which Christ is the shoot out of that stump.

Some research before you preach, please.

ImaGraftedBranch


40 posted on 05/12/2014 12:13:53 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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To: ImaGraftedBranch
Also, the root was Jesse, from which Christ is the shoot out of that stump.

I fail to see any scripture for your theory...

Isa_11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

Jesus is never called the shoot of a stump...Jesus IS the root and the stump...

Rev_22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

We're not talking modern forestry where you cut off a branch and graft a new branch to it...We're talking about the branch being ripped off from the trunk...The branch is gone...And Christians are grafted into the trunk which is part of the root...

Some research before you preach, please.

Oh I've done plenty of research...That's why I'm not taken in by this 'the church is Israel' replacement theology...

The Gentile church is in Jesus, it is not in Israel...Jewish Christians are in Jesus, they are no longer in Israel...

41 posted on 05/12/2014 12:51:23 PM PDT by Iscool (Ya mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailer park...)
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To: HarleyD; wmfights
Eph 2:12-13 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

If that is the verse you think shows that the “church” has replaced Israel better try again. The “church” is “made nigh” to God through the blood of Christ but in no way does that verse show that it has replaced Israel in the “covenant of promise” made to Israel.

The “church” has not replace Israel and never will.

42 posted on 05/12/2014 2:31:05 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Jan_Sobieski

And the specific land given to the nation of Israel “forever” does not belong to the “church”. Once the “fullness of the Gentiles” as come God will once again deal with the nation of Israel.


43 posted on 05/12/2014 2:44:36 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Iscool; ImaGraftedBranch
>> The root is not Israel...We are not grafted into Israel...The root is Jesus Christ...<<

Amen! Great point!

44 posted on 05/12/2014 2:50:07 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: wmfights
It's hard not to notice that this radical view emerged after the Apostolic Era ended.

If the Apostles Peter and Paul didn't advocate for what Justin Martyr asserted, I find it hard to believe it was what God meant to teach AFTER their death. God is NOT done with the nation of Israel. He declared:

This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar— the Lord Almighty is his name:
“Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.” declares the Lord.

This is what the Lord says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

God is not a man that He should lie.

45 posted on 05/12/2014 2:55:09 PM PDT by boatbums (quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus)
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To: Jan_Sobieski

Well said! Thank you.


46 posted on 05/12/2014 3:09:34 PM PDT by boatbums (quod semper, quod ubique, quod ab omnibus)
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To: Iscool
The Gentile church is in Jesus, it is not in Israel...Jewish Christians are in Jesus, they are no longer in Israel...

Thank you for making this point. I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand it.

47 posted on 05/12/2014 3:26:04 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: CynicalBear; HarleyD
The “church” is “made nigh” to God through the blood of Christ but in no way does that verse show that it has replaced Israel in the “covenant of promise” made to Israel.

If the "church" is replacing Israel, not just being drawn close to God, why even talk about Israel being blinded for a time (Rom. 11:25)?

Justin Martyr is noteworthy in this discussion because he was the first Christian writer to explicitly identify the church as “Israel.”. The movement popularizing this view grew with Origen and his allegorizing of Scripture and then became dominant with the emergence of the State sponsored church. In posting these threads I hope my Reformed FRiends come to understand the history behind the emergence of Supersessionism. It is not supported by a literal understanding of Scripture.

48 posted on 05/12/2014 3:41:07 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: boatbums
If the Apostles Peter and Paul didn't advocate for what Justin Martyr asserted, I find it hard to believe it was what God meant to teach AFTER their death. God is NOT done with the nation of Israel.

Amen, Amen, Amen!

If we are going to make Scripture the rule of our faith (Sola Scriptura) then we have to be willing to look at what is taught and question it. A lot of churches teach Supersessionism so from a very early age we just accept it as true.

God is not a man that He should lie.

Not the one true God we worship.

49 posted on 05/12/2014 3:47:58 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: CynicalBear

You people seem to think I have some position about Israel being the root.

I merely mentioned my screen name earlier as a branch grafted in, and was attacked.

Give it up, already.


50 posted on 05/12/2014 4:45:02 PM PDT by ImaGraftedBranch (...By reading this, you've collapsed my wave function. Thanks.)
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