Posted on 05/15/2014 8:58:50 PM PDT by Salvation
AMEN!
God only cares and sees what is in our hearts.
So—Lying is OK?
Me too. I have to be fast beofre someone tries to grab my hand.
The celebrant has the congregation do it in the parish where I interpret. I agree; it’s a little creepy looking.
if you can’t figure that out by now, i doubt the internets is gonna help ya
Unless you're one of those parents who'd never stifle the little darlins while they're havin' fun. "The Lord be with you, Go-ahead-and-twerk, ya little rascals."
What the NT church did is not the criteria for Rome. In the NT church there simply was no distinctive sacerdotal class of believers called "priests," which is a distinctive word (hiereus) which the Holy Spirit NEVER uses as a title for NT pastors, nor does presbuteros (elder) or episkopos (overseer) mean that.
The former is made to mean that by way of imposed functional equivalence, supposing that presbuteros engaged in a unique sacrificial function in turning bread and wine into human flesh and blood to be consumed to provide spiritual and eternal life for the flock, as per the ignorant literalism imposed on Jn. 6:53,54. But which NT pastors are never even shown doing, nor is this the means of obtaining spiritual and eternal life.
Nor is it shown that the Lord's supper was the source and summit of their church life, around which all else revolved, and in its sole manifest description of this "feast of charity" then it is the body of Christ as the church which is the "body" that was not being discerned, by ignoring others, so as to "shame them that have not," but not even waiting for them to eat but filling their faces while others had none.
As for hand holding, this is actually consistent with the unity of the body with Christ who bought the church with His own sinless shed blood, (Acts 20:28) and each other who were bought, which a true observance Lord's Supper shows.
But which Catholics turning into a focus on the elements, while for most Prots it has become that of remembering the Lord's with a repentant clear conscience (hopefully), distinct from a emphasis upon the communal nature of the body which "communion" is to show.
And then you have the exhortations this Yankee never even saw in his upbringing in his house, let alone church:
Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you. (Romans 16:16) All the brethren greet you. Greet ye one another with an holy kiss. (1 Corinthians 16:20) Greet one another with an holy kiss. (2 Corinthians 13:12) Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss. (1 Thessalonians 5:26)
Four times. I am surprised no one has turned this into a sacrament, but which i would feel uncomfortable doing.
That said, what i object to among some Prot pastors is the practice of some pastors telling the people, "say to the person sitting next to you...". But occasional "Amen" or "Preach it" as fitting can be signs of life.
I have noticed this for some time now. It DOESN'T matter what a priest may say because people WILL do what they want. It's an unconscious response, I think, passed on from their families/mentors.
One can only hope that it will go away with time.
My stance for the "Our Father" is standing, hands clasped loosely. I usually gaze at the crucifix, the statue of Our Lord as as adult and then at the statue of Mary holding the Baby Jesus.
I am always in a front row because it's helpful for concentration.
That is exactly what I do, Sal.
As for:
...hand-holding intrudes a false air of chumminess into the Mass (and undercuts the immediately-following sign of peace....
***
That stupid sign of peace is a false air of chumminess and disrupts the flow of the Mass.
Oh, yes, I know exactly what you mean about that extended hand gesture. I won’t do it.
Another thing I won’t do is applaud for musicians, choir, First Communicants, etc.
LOL. I have never thought of that but now that you mention it....
While we are on the subject or liturgical abuse, what is with all this chattiness before Mass starts? My old parish we said the Rosary people want to run their mouths, lets have prayer. Don't even get me started on the rush from the pews after Mass.
My standard practice for several years now is right before the Our Father, I get out a Kleenex or usually a cotton handkerchief from my purse, put it in my right hand, and when the hand holding or shaking hands comes, I show the person that and gesture to my nose like I have a cold, and they NEVER want to shake hands. Like stopping a moose in his tracks...........
The last thing about both postures, the orans and the hand holding, is that it has a sort of show-offy evangelical “look how caught up in the spirit I am” feel to it. I prefer my relationship to the Lord to be very private, not that I don’t express my gratitude or give Him praise, but that I know it’s what is in my heart that matters to Him. But then again maybe that’s the Episcopalian thing in me still, they’re not exactly known for emotionalism, LOL.
(((
Except for the last sentence, that paragraph could have been written by me, as that was the way I was taught at home and in my 12 years of Catholic schooling in the 1950s and 1960s.
I go to Mass alone, as my husband is not Catholic, and I, also, look for an isolated seat in order to escape the handshake nonsense.
Not all parishes, BTW, do this nonsense, but, as your children are attending the parish school, I guess you are stuck with that stuff.
God bless and welcome home.
Since, as you say, you will never attend a Roman Mass, it seems odd that you would be concerned about our rules for such.
I teach at a Catholic school and we decided last year that no one should hold hands or shake hands due to all the colds, flu, viruses, etc.
I know God does not have a check list on who has their hands doing what. But it's important. Like placing your hand over your heart when the Flag goes by. It's tradition and it does have meaning, it's symbolic. :)
...make me shake hands with all sorts of people I don’t know.
***
I used to be cowed into shaking hands, but, starting about 4 years ago, I will not shake hands. I keep the missalette open in my right hand, so it is obvious that nobody can shake it. I nod and say, “Peace be with you”, to people near me.
Actually, I picked up the idea from a man I saw in church one Sunday. Since I have started this, I have noticed lately a few other people doing the same in my small parish.
Neither the orans nor holding hands is ideal. However, to declare them gravely illicit under rules whose expressly stated purpose is to block a loophole for co-consecration is just foolish. It validates enormously liberals who feel that orthodoxy and orthopraxis have been officially done away with.
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