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Robert Spencer in FrontPage Mag: Pope Francis: ‘The Che Guevara of the Palestinians’?
Jihad Watch ^ | 5/22/14 | Robert Spencer

Posted on 05/23/2014 7:48:40 AM PDT by BlatherNaut

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To: Zionist Conspirator
"Would it do any good to point out that these are all beliefs and that they are not self-evidently true? By insisting on reading the Hebrew Bible through the lens of the "new testament" all chrstians are guilty of the logical fallacy of "affirmation of the consequent.""

There is no logical fallacy, and they most assuredly are self-evidently true, when you affirm the Divinty of Jesus Christ. It is not affirming the consequent, but mere hindsight.

"Fundamentalist Protestants, whose only "chrstendom" is Biblical Israel and for whom historical chrstianity is "the great apostasy," have a very different position from yours."

Okay...And?

21 posted on 05/23/2014 9:03:45 AM PDT by Wyrd bið ful aræd (Pope Calvin the 1st, defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades)
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To: BlatherNaut
FR Catholics' heads are exploding today as they try to reconcile Pope Frank's romance with the Palestinians with the reality of Muslim hatred and murder. There simply is no common ground.

Time to wake up from the cathedral dreams and face the reality that your church is not the one Christ built. His Church is built on Him alone, not church traditions, not saints, not Mary, not celibacy, not priests and certainly not fallible and corrupt popes.

Once you accept the Truth, everything about Israel and her enemies starts to make sense.

22 posted on 05/23/2014 10:02:29 AM PDT by Dr. Thorne ("How long, O Lord, holy and true?" - Rev. 6:10)
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To: BlatherNaut

I have been holding off, but today I officially start praying for a new Pope.


23 posted on 05/23/2014 10:03:20 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Dr. Thorne

Staying put where I am.

Besides, like it or not, WE ARE ALL CHRISTIANS, united by our COMMON BAPTISM. We are all in it together.


24 posted on 05/23/2014 10:07:12 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Give me a break. Go bash Catholicism, Mary, the saints, etc., somewhere else.

We just have a lousy, stupid Pope. It’s happened before.

It’s easy for you to have a “perfect” church, since yours exists only in your imagination.


25 posted on 05/23/2014 10:15:10 AM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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To: Arthur McGowan

Arthur:

Man, I could not have said that better.


26 posted on 05/23/2014 11:04:11 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd
Some say that Israel is now Babylon, due to the talmud having been compiled there

Paul sure seemed to feel a different way, didn't he?

You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” [...] For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? (Ro 11:19,24)

27 posted on 05/23/2014 11:11:45 AM PDT by Former Fetus (Saved by grace through faith)
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To: Arthur McGowan
I have been holding off, but today I officially start praying for a new Pope.

Very forbearing of you to have held off this long.

28 posted on 05/23/2014 11:21:20 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Zionist Conspirator; defconw

I thought this website provided a reasonable explanation behind the pre-Vatican II Catholicism’s relationship with Zionism.

http://www.dcdave.com/article4/031206.html


29 posted on 05/23/2014 2:22:47 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Zionist Conspirator
What do you say to those orthodox Jews who are anti-Zionism? Is it possible that they have a point (given they are orthodox Jews)?
30 posted on 05/23/2014 2:29:30 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

“I thought this website provided a reasonable explanation behind the pre-Vatican II Catholicism’s relationship with Zionism.”

I didn’t find it reasonable at all.


31 posted on 05/23/2014 3:01:05 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Dr. Thorne

“FR Catholics’ heads are exploding today”

Everything you “know” is wrong.


32 posted on 05/23/2014 3:03:50 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: dragonblustar

“Anyways, she is the biggest lib I’ve ever known. She not only supports things like abortion but belongs to some of the biggest left wing groups out there. Not only that, she is the mean spirited.”

A liberal-anything is always a liberal first and the “anything” a distant second.

I don’t even know if it’s a good thing or a bad thing that they remain in the Church. I do wish that no liberals were in charge of anything anywhere, because they always try to remake things in line with their ideology, which is of and from Satan.


33 posted on 05/23/2014 3:09:51 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: piusv
What do you say to those orthodox Jews who are anti-Zionism? Is it possible that they have a point (given they are orthodox Jews)?

Why do you right wing Catholics and palaeocons get so excited about anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews? Do you think they're opposed to some imaginary plot to rule the world? They are not. They are very much in favor of the real Mashiach HaMelekh ruling Israel and the entire human race from Jerusalem. Their objection to Zionism is for one reason and one reason only: Zionism is a secular nineteenth century European nationalist movement no different than Irish Republicanism or the Armenian Dashnaks or the Italian risorgimento or the various Slavic nationalisms under Austria and the Ottomans. That's all it ever was, and that's why they oppose it. They are opposed to a "secular Jewish state" (a contradiction in terms) that is governed according to Western secular "democratic" means. They are Theocrats in the truest sense of the word, and to them "secular Jewish nationalism" is an abomination and an impossibility--somewhat on the order of a square circle.

It may interest you to know that I myself am opposed to secular Jewish nationalism and a secular Jewish state, and I regard the Fundamentalist Protestant assumption that the state founded in '48 is the "messianic state" as the ultimate in naivete. This is because I believe in an Israel under the Davidic King and ruled entirely by Halakhah, much as moslem pseudo-"theocracies" are. This was never in the minds of the vast majority of the founders of Zionism or Zionists at any time. The goal of secular Zionism has always been what Rabbi Me'ir Kahana' (zt"l; Hy"d) called "a Hebrew speaking Portugal."

Those "anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews" cannot wait for Mashiach to arrive and govern the entire world--and for that matter, neither can I. There is no "Zionist plot" to crown the "antichrist" as king of the world nor are "anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews" going to protect you from Mashiach when he gets here. They're not "good Jews" who are so very sorry that the big bad Zionists are plotting to rule the world. And the big bad Zionists, whatever you have been told, have never had any such goal in mind. Of course, if you define "Zionism" to include "international banking" and flooding America with Third Worlders (moslems?) nothing I say is going to get through to you.

Just please cut the "anti-Zionist Jews are good Jews because they're against the false Jewish 'messiah'" schtick. Because they're much more for the worldwide messianic reign than any secular Zionist could even possibly be.

34 posted on 05/23/2014 4:49:46 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Why do you right wing Catholics and palaeocons get so excited about anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews?

Not on my radar screen. Ditto pro-Zionists or any belief system which rejects Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I have never personally encountered anti-semitism or disparagement of other faiths in traditional Catholic circles. Our focus is on Our Lord and his Holy Will.

35 posted on 05/23/2014 9:52:14 PM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: BlatherNaut

“Not on my radar screen. Ditto pro-Zionists or any belief system which rejects Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I have never personally encountered anti-semitism or disparagement of other faiths in traditional Catholic circles. Our focus is on Our Lord and his Holy Will.”

Truth well expressed. Good job.


36 posted on 05/23/2014 11:23:40 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Wow. I’m not “excited” about the anti-Zionist Jews at all. They still are not Catholic. I do think it is interesting, however, that they go against the mainstream, Jewish thought regarding the return to a Jewish State. Apparently my question struck a nerve. I just wanted to know your opinion, that’s all.


37 posted on 05/24/2014 6:04:14 AM PDT by piusv
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To: dsc

Reasonable in the sense that it didn’t come off as anti-Semitic. Unless of course we want to say that Pope Pius X was anti-Semitic.


38 posted on 05/24/2014 6:09:27 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Thanks for the link.

From your link: “Regardless of the prudence of this decision, the Vatican has consistently remained critical of Israel’s repressive policies towards Palestinians (both Muslim and Christian). This is an absolutely necessary measure, because the Church, as the ultimate moral authority on earth, must maintain its moral credibility”


Spencer’s article illuminates the lack of consistency in the Pope’s approach to this issue. While critical of Israeli treatment of Palestinians, he falsely asserts that the Koran opposes violence and seems disinclined to forcefully address the plight of Christians and Jews in the Middle East (and throughout the world) who are beset by Palestinian and Muslim violence.


39 posted on 05/24/2014 9:29:08 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: piusv

“Unless of course we want to say that Pope Pius X was anti-Semitic.”

No, I don’t. He was too intelligent and wise not to realize that the Jews who shouted “Give us Barrabas” were only a tiny fraction of the entire population of Jews.

I mean, how many could there have been crammed into such a small area?


40 posted on 05/24/2014 12:59:41 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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