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Can Roman Catholics be saved? (Open)
Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry ^ | 2013 | Matt Slick

Posted on 05/28/2014 5:50:04 AM PDT by WVKayaker

Can Roman Catholics be saved? Yes they can but not if they adhere to Roman Catholic theology. Like anyone else, salvation is found only through faith in Christ alone. ...

(Excerpt) Read more at carm.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Worship
KEYWORDS: cult
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... Roman Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, etc., are no exception. Salvation is found only by believing the gospel that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose from the dead. This message is received by faith alone, and we can add no works to what Christ has done. This is why the Bible says we are justified by faith (Romans 5:1) without the works of the law (Ephesians 2:8).

However, in Roman Catholicism salvation is not by faith alone in Christ alone. In Roman Catholicism, that which is necessary for salvation includes the church (Catechism of the Catholic Church 846), baptism (CCC 1257), penance (CCC 980), sacraments (CCC 1129), service and witness to the faith (CCC 1816), keeping the ten commandments (CCC 2036, 2068, 2070), and detachment from riches (CCC 2556).

In other words, Roman Catholicism teaches works righteousness and because it does, anyone who seeks salvation in the Roman Catholic system will never find it.

So, Roman Catholics must repent of the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church and trust in Christ alone by faith alone for the forgiveness of his or her sins. There is no other way.

"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." (Rom. 3:28). "For what does the scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." (Rom. 4:3). "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).

1 posted on 05/28/2014 5:50:05 AM PDT by WVKayaker
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To: metmom; boatbums; Elsie; daniel1212; Mark17; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...
Just to inform against the constant proselytizing by the other side... and a meted response to How Can Protestants Be Saved?
2 posted on 05/28/2014 5:55:19 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker

What does “ecumenical” mean in this context?


3 posted on 05/28/2014 5:57:47 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: WVKayaker

Yawn.

Time will tell, eh? Hate for you to be on the wrong side of the truth, but that’s your call.


4 posted on 05/28/2014 5:57:56 AM PDT by yldstrk ( My heroes have always been cowboys)
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To: WVKayaker

I was listening to Romans on my way to work today (over an hour commute). Got through chapter 12. It’s pretty darned clear about salvation and works. It even suggests that there is no free will regarding salvation, but that is a subject of another thread. :-)


5 posted on 05/28/2014 6:00:08 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: WVKayaker

Its all divisive and those playing the game at all should be viewed with suspicion.


6 posted on 05/28/2014 6:01:19 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: yldstrk

Time will tell, eh? Hate for you to be on the wrong side of the truth, but that’s your call.


I, myself, am not really concerned about that. The reason is simple: God will not allow those who truly seek Him to follow some false teaching. To me, this means there are saved people in all churches that claim to follow Christ.

I’m thinking of my reference in my previous post about salvation and free will. If you are Christ’s you will not be on the wrong side of the truth.


7 posted on 05/28/2014 6:02:24 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: WVKayaker

Yes, through their baptism through water and the Holy Spirit.


8 posted on 05/28/2014 6:02:56 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: WVKayaker

I love it when folks like you try to tell Catholics what we believe. We are not a Church that believes in salvation by works. We believe in salvation by faith through the cross. But as you know, faith without works is dead. Works are the manifestation of faith. Works won’t earn you salvation; rather they are the fruit of faith.

I suggest spending your time evangelizing non-Christians, rather than the Church Christ founded.


9 posted on 05/28/2014 6:03:59 AM PDT by CWW (Pray for God's Protection!)
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To: yldstrk

Time will tell, eh? Hate for you to be on the wrong side of the truth, but that’s your call.


Also, I said, “To me, this means there are saved people in all churches that claim to follow Christ.”

What I mean by that is that as the saved in these orgainzations that are not truly Christian learn more about the false teaching of the organization they will leave it. Hence groups like Saints Alive (ex-mormons for Jesus).


10 posted on 05/28/2014 6:04:10 AM PDT by cuban leaf
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To: WVKayaker

**Yes they can but not if they adhere to Roman Catholic theology. **

The author is in error here because Catholicism is centered on Jesus Christ, our Savior.


11 posted on 05/28/2014 6:04:35 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: WVKayaker

THE APOSTLES CREED

 

I believe in God,

the Father almighty,

Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord

At the words that follow up and including "the Virgin Mary," all bow.

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell;

on the third day he rose again from the dead;

he ascended into heaven,

and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty;

From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy Catholic Church,

the Communion of Saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and life everlasting.
Amen.


12 posted on 05/28/2014 6:06:32 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: CWW

Very well stated.


13 posted on 05/28/2014 6:09:16 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: CWW

Very well stated.


14 posted on 05/28/2014 6:09:16 AM PDT by wordsofearnest (Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
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To: WVKayaker

Catholic belief is succinctly expressed in the profession of faith or credo called the Nicene Creed:

The Nicene Creed

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
(At the words that follow, up to and including "and became man." all bow.)

and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come. Amen.


15 posted on 05/28/2014 6:09:20 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Yes, through their baptism through water and the Holy Spirit.

Baptism is for conscious believers, not for infants being sprinkled by some guy in fancy garb. It is a result of a person seeking God on his own, after the realization that he/she needs to die to the old nature. It is not by dedication into a cult by some brainwashed parent.

Nice try, but no banana!

.....

What Does Baptism Mean
by Dr. Ray Pritchard

If the meaning of baptism could be boiled down to one word, that word would be identification. Baptism speaks primarily of a personal, public identification with Jesus Christ. I

n Romans 6:3-4 the Apostle Paul puts the matter this way:

Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Notice the strength of the expressions—"baptized into Christ" and "baptized into his death" and "buried with him in baptism." Someone may suggest that the primary reference here is to Spirit baptism. That's true, but at the very least, water baptism is in the background of this passage.

How important is your baptism? It is your personal identification with the greatest act of human history—the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Baptism doesn't save you—salvation comes by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). Your guilt before God is removed the moment you trust in Christ. But baptism is your personal testimony to, and the inward assurance of, your passage from the old life to the new life....

When you are baptized, you are in fact visually preaching the gospel. As you stand in the water waiting to be baptized, A, you symbolize Jesus dying on the cross. As you are lowered into the water, B, you symbolize Jesus buried in the tomb. As you are raised from the water, C, you symbolize Jesus rising from the dead.

And since you personally are being baptized, you are also saying, "I died with Jesus Christ, I was buried with him and now I am raised with Christ to brand-new life."

In short, in your baptism you are preaching a sermon without using any words at all. And your sermon in your baptism will be more effective with your friends than any sermon the pastor preaches on Sunday morning—more effective because it comes directly from you.

(Excerpted from "Taking the Plunge" from Keep Believing Ministries )

16 posted on 05/28/2014 6:12:07 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker

17 posted on 05/28/2014 6:13:20 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: narses

18 posted on 05/28/2014 6:17:07 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker
Interesting article.

An old friend of mine (Baptist turned Presbyterian) and I went on a FOOTSTEPS OF GOD Pilgrimage with Steve and Janet Ray to the Holy Land in 2011.
Steve Ray was an evangelical Baptist minister who was convinced that all of us Catholics were going to hell. Being a good man he wanted to save us. So he and his wife spend a year reading about the Catholic Church. He knew that they first had to learn what all these Catholics were about. Logical.

Steve said that one night, a year after their reading began, he and his wife were on the living room floor, surrounded by all these books. He started weeping and said: "Oh no! We're Catholics!"

They both converted and they now run tours to the Holy Land. It was a WONderful tour. Steve knew his Bible backwards and forwards and was able to ALWAYS give us chapter and verse for things, throughout the entire trip.

His website: http://www.footprintsofgodpilgrimages.com

19 posted on 05/28/2014 6:30:39 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: narses
Grapic: Lol.
WHERE did you come up with that.
20 posted on 05/28/2014 6:32:33 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: WVKayaker

Thanks for your deep concern about my immortal Catholic soul.


21 posted on 05/28/2014 6:32:40 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: Salvation
"Catholic belief is succinctly expressed in the profession of faith or credo called the Nicene Creed:...."

Protestant belief is also expressed in the same Nicene Creed and Apostles Creed that you quoted.

In another thread, I once quoted the Apostles Creed, asking "if this is what I base my faith on, why do you Roman Catholics tell me I am not a Christian nor am I saved?"

I was basically told that it does not matter that I believe in that Creed, because if I am not a Roman Catholic then I still am not saved.

So apparently in the eyes of Roman Catholics, there are man-written other "works" that must be performed before one can be saved saved. Joining the Roman Catholic church seems to be one of those works.

22 posted on 05/28/2014 6:33:14 AM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: WVKayaker
Yes they can but not if they adhere to Roman Catholic theology.

Funny stuff, completely wrong, but darn funny. If they bring back "Laugh in" this guy has a job for life.

23 posted on 05/28/2014 6:35:42 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertatrian)
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To: WVKayaker

Popes and saints don’t go to heaven?


24 posted on 05/28/2014 6:38:12 AM PDT by redhawk.44mag (The problem with the world today, is that it wants to be digital, but it's really analog)
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To: cuban leaf

it means “pile on.”


25 posted on 05/28/2014 6:40:15 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: WVKayaker

“And the Lord looked at Peter and said “You are the Rock upon which I will build my Church.”

That mission was given to my Church directly by Jesus and it’s why I stick around.

The truth is in the Catholic Church and is taught here. Granted it has been obscured by millennia of ceremony, legalism, semi-occult practices, and misunderstandings by the Laity which the Church has, for some reason or other, chosen not to try and correct.

Protestants exist because frankly at various points in our history we have fallen way, way short of our mission.


26 posted on 05/28/2014 6:40:21 AM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: paterfamilias
Thanks for your deep concern about my immortal Catholic soul.

You forgot the sarcasm tag, but I do sincerely hope you will come to know the saving GRACE of Jesus, not the restrictive and cumbersome requirements of some manmade cult! There is enough truth in Roman Catholocism, but I like to equate the rat poison theory: 90% good nourishing food, but 10% poison that leaves you dead.

But, as you talked about your "immortal soul", that is a long, long time to find the error of what a cult teaches.


27 posted on 05/28/2014 6:41:21 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker

Again, thanks for your deep concern about my immortal Catholic soul.


28 posted on 05/28/2014 6:45:34 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: WVKayaker

So, converts to the Catholic faith who are baptized as adults, their baptisms ARE valid?


29 posted on 05/28/2014 6:47:33 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: WVKayaker

We have this thing called confirmation. Takes care of the birth, baptism thing. Maybe you have heard of it? Come back when you have a clue what you are talking about.


31 posted on 05/28/2014 6:49:37 AM PDT by prof.h.mandingo (Buck v. Bell (1927) An idea whose time has come (for extreme liberalism))
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To: WVKayaker

Every minute wasted on attacking Catholics, is another minute lost for your own Salvation.


32 posted on 05/28/2014 6:50:42 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: redhawk.44mag
Popes and saints don’t go to heaven?

Membership and status mean nothing to God. I am a saint, according to Scripture, as is any believer and follower of Jesus Christ.

Romans 3: .. 21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26 he did it to demonstrate his righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. ...

33 posted on 05/28/2014 6:50:46 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

“In another thread, I once quoted the Apostles Creed, asking “if this is what I base my faith on, why do you Roman Catholics tell me I am not a Christian nor am I saved?”

Pope Benedict confirmed this:

“It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church”

So if your Catholic friends disagree tell them to take it up with the Pope.

This crazy ‘Christian Apologetics & Reasearch Ministry’ website lumps Orthodox and Catholic Christians with Islam. That’s pretty far out there, in my opinion.

Freegards


34 posted on 05/28/2014 6:52:32 AM PDT by Ransomed
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Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: Buckeye McFrog
"That mission was given to my Church directly by Jesus and it’s why I stick around."

You are wrong.... that mission was given directly by Jesus to the "Universal Church", meaning the body of believers who make up Christ's church. Some people have the mistaken idea that the word 'catholic' belongs to the Roman Church. But simply because Rome claims to be the catholic church, doesn't make it so. In truth the word catholic is simply a form of the Greek word [katholikos] which means, "of the whole." Taken from two root words [kata], meaning pertaining to, or about, and the word [holos], meaning the whole. i.e., the it means the whole or Universal Church or body of believers in Christ Jesus.

From those original body of believers, there have evolved various denominations or groups declaring their interpretation is the best. First there were the Romans declaring they and they alone owned the commission that was given by Christ to Peter. Almost all Christians went along with that declaration for a while until they began to see the corruption in the church in Rome.

The truth is that there is ONE body of Christ and all believers are in it irregarless of whether or not they belong to the ROMAN catholic church..

36 posted on 05/28/2014 6:55:40 AM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: WVKayaker

So if Christ started the one true Church, and his direct apostles were all good, holy, faithful men

So please tell us - when exactly did the Roman Catholic Church start promoting false doctrines? who did it, when, and why?


37 posted on 05/28/2014 6:56:51 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: WVKayaker

“So, Roman Catholics must repent of the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church”

YAWN.


38 posted on 05/28/2014 6:57:37 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died;we should thank God that such men lived" ~ Patton)
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To: WVKayaker

Jesus said, in John 3:3, A man must be born again.

In Luke 23:39-43, Jesus tells the man to His right, this day you will be in Paradise with Me.

The man had, confessed that Jesus was God, that he was a sinner worthy of death and asked Jesus to forgive him and let him be His slave.

There is nothing in the Bible, that I know of or that the Pastor knows of that precludes doing more, only that doing less cannot comply.

In James, the half brother of Jesus, James says that he shows his salvation by his works and that faith without works is dead.


39 posted on 05/28/2014 6:58:16 AM PDT by The_Republic_Of_Maine (Be kept informed on Maine's secession, sign up at freemaine@hushmail.com)
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To: paterfamilias

I have often wondered if the Protesters have a secret quota on how many Catholics they have to try and turn.


40 posted on 05/28/2014 7:01:13 AM PDT by defconw (Well now what?)
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To: Salvation

In all the years I was a Baptist and Pentacostal we never once recited the Nicene Creed at church services. Only thing church was was a preacher prancing back and forth, beating his fist on a Bible telling us we were all going to hell if we didn’t change out ways.


41 posted on 05/28/2014 7:01:15 AM PDT by NKP_Vet ("It is foolish and wrong to mourn the men who died;we should thank God that such men lived" ~ Patton)
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To: cloudmountain

Funny, i had the same conversion, in Reverse.

Was Catholic now Reformed Baptist.

Rome believes in “faith” and Works salvation.

Catholics must appropriate “grace” via the Mass, etc.. that enables them to perform the works necessary for salvation where the soul is righteous enough to please God and worthy of Heaven.


42 posted on 05/28/2014 7:01:15 AM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: Berlin_Freeper
Every minute wasted on attacking Catholics, is another minute lost for your own Salvation.

I have complete assurance of my salvation, Friend, unlike those following the Romans Catholic cult of personality...

2 Timothy 1: 12 ...because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day.Titus 1: ... 10 For there are many rebellious people, full of meaningless talk and deception, especially those of the circumcision group*. 11 They must be silenced, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain. 12 One of Crete’s own prophets has said it: “Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons.” 13 This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the merely human commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted. 16 They claim to know God, but by their actions they deny him. They are detestable, disobedient and unfit for doing anything good.

*Those are people who insist on following the dictates of any cult which proclaims to hold the sole path to God... no matter how long out it has been able to deceive so many!

43 posted on 05/28/2014 7:05:04 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: PGR88

A bit before Rome, broke away from the other One True Church (Orthodox)


44 posted on 05/28/2014 7:05:39 AM PDT by bkaycee (John 3:16)
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To: WVKayaker
I was just on another just as stupid divisive thread the other day by a Catholic so blind and so stuck on following an institution rather than God, that he called all not in his Catholic institution heretics. It was one of the saddest examples of losing sight of God and following fallible man I had ever seen.

Maybe Protestants should worry about their own Protestant churches that are no longer following the "Bible" in their teachings and let God decide who is saved. Maybe we should just point out in scripture why we think something is wrong and walk away. Teach instead of let blind arrogance turn someone away from even listening to the word of God, that might actually have someone hear what God is saying.

Calling Catholics unsaved is just arrogant and off-putting if your real goal is to reaching people for God. If your goal is causing two sides to hate each other.....CONGRATULATIONS your goal is accomplished.

45 posted on 05/28/2014 7:10:31 AM PDT by Lady Heron
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To: WVKayaker
the Romans Catholic cult of personality
It might make you feel better about yourself to to insult others (not very Christian mind you), but Roman Catholics worship God.
46 posted on 05/28/2014 7:11:08 AM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: WVKayaker

You’re right. I’m a guilty Roman Catholic whose faith is based on a cult of personality - Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. I’m hopelessly in love with and dedicated to Him.

Seriously? Cult of Personality? What personality would that be? The RO=oman Pontiff is merely out Shepard who helps gude the Church. He’s not God.

Not to cast aspersions on my protestant bretheren, but don’t throw stones if you live in glass houses.


48 posted on 05/28/2014 7:15:51 AM PDT by CWW (Pray for God's Protection!)
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To: WVKayaker

Here’s one of those Protestant bashing threads that my fellow Protestants tell me exist yet never ping me to upon my request . . .oh wait it’s the Catholic bashers AGAIN. These people or so full of hatred I wander how they make it through their days.


49 posted on 05/28/2014 7:16:56 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: NKP_Vet
Oh goody you are here also, see post 45.

What you are both doing is done in hatred and has done nothing for God and his glory. Maybe both you and WVKayaker need to step back and ask yourselves who your are really serving. If your goal is to teach the truth of God you both have failed miserably but you are causing hatred....Congratulations....

Is that really God's goal or yours.

50 posted on 05/28/2014 7:17:44 AM PDT by Lady Heron
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