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Ken Ham Responds to 'Anti-Creationist' Rachel Maddow 'Rant'
Christian Post ^ | 05/29 | BY STOYAN ZAIMOV

Posted on 05/29/2014 7:46:50 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Creation Museum CEO and President Ken Ham responded to what he called an "anti-creationist rant" by MSNBC host Rachel Maddow, who criticized the $43 million in Kentucky tax incentives being given to his ministry's full-sized Noah's ark attraction.

"Rachel Maddow just went on a long anti-creationist rant on MSNBC (for anyone who still happens to watch low-rated MSNBC) as she commented on the Creation Museum's new Allosaurus fossil (she showed photos of our new exhibit)--then she mocked our Ark Encounter project--actually spent quite a lot of time mocking and scoffing, and totally misrepresented how the construction of the Ark is being funded," Ham wrote on his Facebook page on Tuesday.

Answers in Genesis, the ministry behind the ark attraction and which Ham heads, has clarified earlier that "no money is coming out of the state budget to build the Ark." "[L]et us say for the umpteenth time: no state monies will be used to construct the Ark," the group has stressed.

Maddow criticized the Creation Museum and pointed out that the Kentucky state government has offered $43 million in tax incentives for the Ark Encounter project, which is currently being built. She was also critical of the museum's presentation that dinosaurs lived alongside people and were present on Noah's Ark at the time of the great flood as described in Genesis, arguing that fossil records prove otherwise.

"If you are a Creationist, if you believe that God created the world in six days, and that the Bible is a literal history, then fossils are an awkward thing for you," Maddow stated.

The host highlighted critical studies of the new Allosaurus fossil and the museum's claim that it is thousands, and not millions, of years old.

"... there will be dinosaurs on the new Noah's Ark that's being built in Kentucky, along with all the people and the animals as if they all lived at the same time," she said. "There will be dinosaurs on Noah's ark, just as soon as the creationists finish finding the dinosaurs in piles of leaves and plant debris, and putting them on the ark with little assist from state government – 43 million in tax incentives. Your tax dollars at work – amazing."

Ham has stated numerous times that he believes dinosaurs really were on Noah's ark.

"Evolution has used dinosaurs more than almost anything else to indoctrinate children into millions of years of evolutionary ideas. Evolution has claimed dinosaurs evolved over 200 million years ago. That no humans ever lived with them…that some mysterious event led to the extinction of dinosaurs," Ham, a Young Earth Creationist, said in a 2013 interview.

"But the Bible gives a different history. God tells us he created all land animals the same day He created man about 6,000 years ago and what's more there were even dinosaurs on Noah's ark because God told Noah to take pairs of every kind of land animal. You see, dinosaurs are no mystery at all if you accept the Bible's account of creation," noted Ham.

In his latest Facebook post, he thanked Maddow for "one of the longest pieces I've seen on secular TV on the Creation Museum--which means we are making an impact!"

Earlier in May, Ham also criticized CBN host Pat Robertson for calling Young Earth Creationists "deaf, dumb and blind" for their view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

"Pat Robertson illustrates one of the biggest problems we have today in the church-people like Robertson compromise the Word of God with the pagan ideas of fallible men!" Ham wrote in response to Robertson's statement that evidence such as oil samples show that the Earth is much older than Young Earth Creationists believe.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Evangelical Christian; Religion & Culture; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: aig; creation; kenham; rachelmaddow
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1 posted on 05/29/2014 7:46:50 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Its sad. People with no faith in God seem to have no faith in anything.


2 posted on 05/29/2014 7:48:54 AM PDT by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: SeekAndFind
Does Madow believe that Noah included a pair of lesbians on the ark, or that lesbians evolved over generations of lesbian couplings?

That has to be an "awkward" question for her.

3 posted on 05/29/2014 7:53:05 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

Ha! Ha! Great post!

btw.. they did a good job in school to teach us that all dinosaurs were GIANT animals, ALL the time.

Look at turtles. Born small. Go to your state fair and they have a HUGE one that is 300 years old. It kept growing with time.. Couldn’t it be POSSIBLE that dinosaurs were the same???


4 posted on 05/29/2014 8:02:40 AM PDT by joethedrummer
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To: Don Corleone
Its sad. People with no faith in God seem to have no faith in anything.

SO true.

Do you remember Johnny Carson? I LOVED him and always wished him well. I LAUGHED so much at his jokes! He was affable unless crossed. Joan Rivers crossed him once by starting her own show without informing Carson of it first. She became a PARIAH in show biz. She did find "her own" but it wasn't because of Carson. I loved Joan Rivers too.

She had a face lift and used to tell her jokes, then STOP, saying: "Am I smiling? I can't feel anything anymore. Please, am I laughing"? She cracked me up too. She came out all right, with her daughter right at her side.

For all of Carson's chuckling and joking he was one of the unhappiest men around. He came from the Midwest but grew up with NO religious upbringing at all.
He believed in NOTHING and NO ONE metaphysically. It left him with NOTHING to fall back on in his later life.
You won't read about THAT on Wikipedia.

5 posted on 05/29/2014 8:04:16 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: SeekAndFind

I hope Ham builds the biggest and best Ark amusement park, ever. I spent a day at the Creation Museum and loved it! Food was good and moderately priced also. Christians and orthodox people everywhere visit this museum if you can. You can visit the other 99.99% liberal ,propagandist, evolutionary, atheist institutions anytime!


6 posted on 05/29/2014 8:04:59 AM PDT by 2nd Amendment (Proud member of the 48% . . giver not a taker)
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To: SeekAndFind

http://creationmuseum.org/about/

The state-of-the-art 70,000 square foot museum brings the pages of the Bible to life, casting its characters and animals in dynamic form and placing them in familiar settings. Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden. Children play and dinosaurs roam near Eden’s Rivers. The serpent coils cunningly in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Majestic murals, great masterpieces brimming with pulsating colors and details, provide a backdrop for many of the settings.

The area within the museum has been divided into unusually configured spaces that allow for personal interaction with each of the 160 exhibits. Several parts of the museum, including the stunning forty-foot high portico with its cliff wall and floor-to-ceiling glass windows, flaunt open spaces and remarkable designs.

Walk through the Garden of Eden. See the scaffolding, smell the freshly-cut timbers in the busy work site of Noah’s Ark. Dig up dinosaur bones—or come face to face with T. Rex.

Creatures great and small inhabit the three gardens that accentuate the landscape at the Creation Museum. Turtles rest on the logs in the lake, sunning themselves while a 12 foot topiary dinosaur strikes a fearsome pose in the rainforest garden. Bright flowers attract hummingbirds and butterflies to the hillside garden, and the bog garden is home to carnivorous plants like the amazing Venus flytrap and pitcher plant.

Over 6,000 plants have been placed within the lake, and 500 varieties of plants fill the gardens, displaying a rich palette of designs. Enjoy a picnic lunch with your family under the shade of our spacious pavilions. Walk down Cherry-tree Lane. The arching bridges, tiled courtyards, and large gazebo are joined with a five-foot-wide paved walkway, just under a mile long, suitable for strollers and wheelchairs.

Don’t miss a chance to enjoy the wonders of God’s creation in our Petting Zoo—something that’s sure to please children of all ages or just the child in you.

http://creationmuseum.org/whats-here/exhibits/

2800 Bullittsburg Church Rd.
Petersburg, KY 41080

******

Construction Begins!

https://arkencounter.com/?utm_source=creation-museum-creation-evolution&utm_medium=Banner&utm_campaign=ark-encounter-construction-begins

On May 1, The Creation Museum hosted the Hammer and Peg Ceremony (video on left) to celebrate the launching of the Ark Encounter project.


7 posted on 05/29/2014 8:13:19 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t think Ham is doing Judeo-Christianity any favors here.


8 posted on 05/29/2014 8:14:34 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: SeekAndFind
Earlier in May, Ham also criticized CBN host Pat Robertson for calling Young Earth Creationists "deaf, dumb and blind" for their view that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

"Pat Robertson illustrates one of the biggest problems we have today in the church-people like Robertson compromise the Word of God.

Where does the Bible say the Earth & Universe is only 6,000 years old?

9 posted on 05/29/2014 8:18:03 AM PDT by gdani (Every day, your Govt surveils you more than the day before)
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To: Don Corleone
I don't see how people can believe that God can:

But they don't think he can make man from scratch.

10 posted on 05/29/2014 8:19:07 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: SeekAndFind
Progressives like Warren Buffett, George Soros, Melinda Gates and Oprah Winfrey want to destroy people's faith and replace it with an abortion clinic on every block…

They pay Rachel Maddow $8M a year to regurgitate nonsense that she probably doesn't really care about.

$8M a year. You tell me that's a business, at MSNBC. It's the Church of Melinda Gates…

11 posted on 05/29/2014 8:26:50 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: DannyTN

ditto! If Jesus can put trillions of Lazarus’ cells back together and have him walk out of the tomb. He can do anything! “By Him all things consist!”


12 posted on 05/29/2014 8:28:08 AM PDT by 2nd Amendment (Proud member of the 48% . . giver not a taker)
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To: gdani

Where does the Bible say the Earth & Universe is only 6,000 years old?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you narrowly and mindlessly trace back the events in the Bible, and insist that a “day” is only a 24 hour period (which even the Bible says it isn’t), then yes, the Earth and the Universe is only 6,000 and some years old. I’m sure there are even more misguided calculations that say the Universe began on Monday, April xx, 6xxx BC. At 6:00 am, EST.

Pure Creationism is unfortunately misguided. Ken Ham did a horrendous job of representing the Biblical viewpoint in his debate with Bill Nye.

Read “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist” by Dr. Norman Geisler.

Intelligent Design (which is completely Biblical and completely scientific) is where it’s at. Which is why the unbelievers wanted to debate Ken Ham instead.


13 posted on 05/29/2014 8:34:16 AM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Prov 3:5 --- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding")
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To: gdani

At points in the past, individuals have attempted to work out the age of the earth by working backwards through the genealogies provided in Holy Scripture and using the stated ages of people like Adam, Moses, etc. Using that method, and assuming 6 24-hour days for creation, with a 7th for rest, creation took place in approximately 4000 BC. Those years, plus the 2014 years AD we’ve recorded makes approximately 6,000 years. I’m not sure about the methodology and to be honest, don’t know what I personally think about it. The argument is that the Bible says it, but indirectly.


14 posted on 05/29/2014 8:34:40 AM PDT by the lone haranguer (All civilized men love peace, but all truly civilized men must despise pacifism.)
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To: 2nd Amendment; 444Flyer; Diana in Wisconsin; svcw; Esther Ruth; GiovannaNicoletta; Diogenesis; ...

How about tossing a dead man onto a long-dead man’s bones and having him spring to life? That’s a rather amazing trick.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Kings%2013:21&version=KJV

2 Kings 13:21

King James Version (KJV)

21 And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.


15 posted on 05/29/2014 8:52:37 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: SeekAndFind

Hey Maddow, you non-gender-specific sourpuss.
You ever thought maybe, just maybe people actually take an interest in this type thing and like having a place to go learn more about it?
There is more to life than homosexual sex and ranting about birth control. Some people are interested in other things besides some liberals gyrating over non-existent racism that they pulled out of thin air or the constant and incessant toe licking of your lord and savior king obama by a fully paid-for media.
Get that big stick out of your butt and realize that not everyone is a tofu-eating, metro-sexual mangirl with a trendy loft in SanFransisco.
Some people like other things than you.


16 posted on 05/29/2014 8:53:47 AM PDT by envisio (Its on like Donkey Kong!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Who cares what some ranting bull dyke thinks?


17 posted on 05/29/2014 8:54:10 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: Eccl 10:2

~~~(which even the Bible says it isn’t)~~~

OK.

Where is that at, so I can find it? Thanks.


18 posted on 05/29/2014 8:55:59 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: elcid1970

~~~Who cares what some ranting bull dyke thinks?~~~

That pretty much summed up my thoughts when I first saw the thread, too.


19 posted on 05/29/2014 8:56:39 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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20 posted on 05/29/2014 8:56:59 AM PDT by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: Eccl 10:2

How old was Adam when he was created?

Or do you reject the idea that Adam was a real person?


21 posted on 05/29/2014 9:00:02 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: cloudmountain
My grandmother lived near Carson's ex in Sherman Oaks and they used to have coffee together.

According to her what you've asserted about Carson is pretty much true.

He was one of a kind, though.

22 posted on 05/29/2014 9:01:05 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: MrB

Good questions


23 posted on 05/29/2014 9:01:20 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Eccl 10:2

God Himself comes down to Earth, chooses to speak in parables, and people STILL don’t get it.


24 posted on 05/29/2014 9:02:28 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: F15Eagle

I’ve always enjoyed Dr. Ham’s work!


25 posted on 05/29/2014 9:04:42 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Do NOT suffer fools gladly…and message boards are full contact arenas)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

I’m sure I don’t enjoy anything Rachel Madcow does.

;)


26 posted on 05/29/2014 9:13:34 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle

most of which would put you into therapy if you thought about it too long….


27 posted on 05/29/2014 9:18:30 AM PDT by C. Edmund Wright (Do NOT suffer fools gladly…and message boards are full contact arenas)
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To: C. Edmund Wright

She’s another perfect fool for MSNBC.

I can’t imagine what people watch that network and call it “truth”.

Then again, there were nodding heads, hundreds, when Calypso Louie spoke of mile-wide spaceships with 450 planes which were going to destroy White America with bombs.

The same bombs that created the mountains on the Earth, which balance the Earth’s rotation, like weights on the wheel of a car.

Yes, that lunatic said all that and more to hundreds of nodding heads.


28 posted on 05/29/2014 9:25:45 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: joethedrummer

“they did a good job in school to teach us that all dinosaurs were GIANT animals, ALL the time.”

Either your schooling failed you or you didn’t study hard enough.


29 posted on 05/29/2014 9:35:21 AM PDT by Fuzz
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To: Eccl 10:2
I’m sure there are even more misguided calculations that say the Universe began on Monday, April xx, 6xxx BC. At 6:00 am, EST.

Allow this misguided soul to correct you: That would be Monday, April xx, 4xxx BC. At 6:00 am, EST. You're welcome.
30 posted on 05/29/2014 10:12:35 AM PDT by Resettozero
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To: SeekAndFind

A lot of people are afraid of looking “ignorant” before the world by believing in the 6-day creation and a young earth. But one of the arguments Ham makes, is everybody brings biases to the table. Nobody living on earth now was there then. So it all comes down to faith. Is God a liar, or are men liars?

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Christ repeatedly spoke of creation (Mark 10), Noah & Lot (Luke 17), etc. The angel that preaches the everlasting gospel also speaks of creation:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

As for me and my house...


31 posted on 05/29/2014 10:17:41 AM PDT by afsnco
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To: laotzu
"Does Madow believe that Noah included a pair of lesbians on the ark, or that lesbians evolved over generations of lesbian couplings?

That has to be an "awkward" question for her."

Too funny, I will be borrowing this one!

32 posted on 05/29/2014 10:20:09 AM PDT by ForYourChildren (Christian Education [ RomanRoadsMedia.com - a classical Christian approach to homeschool])
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To: onedoug

Hah!

Wrong.

Who has more negative “favors”, Ham or Maddow?


33 posted on 05/29/2014 11:03:09 AM PDT by fishtank (The denial of original sin is the root of liberalism.)
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To: F15Eagle

2 Peter 3:8

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.


34 posted on 05/29/2014 11:20:23 AM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Prov 3:5 --- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding")
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To: Eccl 10:2

Well, I wouldn’t agree that proves it, because of the context of that verse,

but, thanks for replying.

FReegards


35 posted on 05/29/2014 11:24:14 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle

Psalm 90:4

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

4 For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it passes by,
[a]Or as a watch in the night.


36 posted on 05/29/2014 11:32:41 AM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Prov 3:5 --- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding")
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To: Eccl 10:2

Yeah I was gonna mention that verse, too.


37 posted on 05/29/2014 11:34:37 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+1%3A5&version=KJV

Genesis 1:5

King James Version (KJV)

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.


38 posted on 05/29/2014 11:35:54 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: MrB

fyi


39 posted on 05/29/2014 11:37:25 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Eccl 10:2

“6 days shall you work”

Does that mean we have to work 6,000 years before we rest on the Sabbath,

or perhaps the verse you quote means something other than what you’re trying to make it mean, like, God is outside of “time”.


40 posted on 05/29/2014 11:44:58 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: F15Eagle

Intelligent Design fully agrees with the Biblical account of creation, and doesn’t compromise anything in the Bible - not one whit.

“Young Earth” Creationism, on the other hand, makes Bible-believers look like fools in the eyes of the very people we are trying to reach.


41 posted on 05/29/2014 11:46:31 AM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Prov 3:5 --- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding")
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To: MrB

Yeah, I think the same thing on Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8.


42 posted on 05/29/2014 11:46:41 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: MrB

There are those Christians who view it that way, 6000 years and then 1,000 years of peace. We’re currently in year 5774.


43 posted on 05/29/2014 11:48:05 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Eccl 10:2

I don’t agree.

Genesis is pretty clear what the first day was. Unless you’re saying it was 500 years of light and then 500 years of darkness.

But in the end, it doesn’t really matter in regards to the Gospel.

For it’s not the central issue in John 3:17-18.

I’ve heard more than a couple silly notions on Genesis. And inside a church. Not the least of which was allegory.


44 posted on 05/29/2014 11:49:12 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: RegulatorCountry

~~~We’re currently in year 5774~~~

Surely there are going to be some tacking on millions of years to that.


45 posted on 05/29/2014 11:50:27 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle

That’s the current year under the Hebrew lunar calendar. Take it up with them, lol.


46 posted on 05/29/2014 11:51:05 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry

lol


47 posted on 05/29/2014 11:51:18 AM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: MrB

http://www.normangeisler.net/articles/Bible/Inspiration-Inerrancy/DoesInerrancyRequireBelieveInYoungEarth.htm

Does Believing in Inerrancy Require One to Believe in Young Earth Creationism?

By Norman L. Geisler

The age of the earth is a hotly debated issue among evangelicals. Old Earthers believe, like most scientists, that the universe is billions of years old. Young Earthers, measure the age of the universe in terms of thousands of years. The debate is not new, but the insistence by some Young Earthers that belief in the inerrancy of the Bible demands a Young Earth position is relatively new.

The Biblical Status of the Young Earth View

In order to establish the Young Earth view one must demonstrated that there are (1) no time gaps in the biblical record and that (2) the “days” of Genesis are six successive 24 hour days of creation.

Possible Gaps in Genesis

Unfortunately for Young Earthers, these two premises are difficult to establish for many reasons. (1) There could have been a gap of long periods of time before Genesis 1:1 (called Recent Creationism). (2) There could be a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 (called the Gap Theory with or without and intervening fall of Satan, as C. I. Scofield had it). (3) There could be long gaps between the six literal 24-hour days (Alternating Day-Age Theory). The point here is not to defend any one of these views, but it is to note that belief in an Old Earth is not incompatible in principle with belief in inerrancy and a literal interpretation of Genesis. (4) There are known gaps after Genesis. For example, Mathew 1:8 affirms that “Joram begat Uzziah.” But in 1 Chronicles 3:11-14 it mentions three missing generations between Joram and Uzziah. Likewise, Luke 3:35-36 lists one missing generation (Cainan) not mentioned in Genesis 11:20-24.

So, with demonstrable gaps in the genealogies, the “Closed-Chronology” view needed to support the strict Young Earth view is not there. This would mean that a Young Earth view of creation around 4000 B.C. would not be feasible. And once more gaps are admitted, then when does it cease to be a Young Earth views?

Evidence that the “Days” of Genesis May Involve more than Six 24 hour days of Creation

Not only is it possible that there are time gaps in Genesis 1, but there is also evidence that the “days” of Genesis are not 6 successive 24 hour days, called the Day-Age View (see Hugh Ross, Creation and Time and Don Stoner, A New Look at an Old Earth). Consider the following:

(1) First, the word “day” (Hb. yom) is not limited to a 24 hour day in the creation record. For instance, it is used of 12 hours of light or daytime (in Gen.1:4-5a).

(2) It is also used of a whole 24 hour day in Genesis 1:5b where it speaks day and night together as a “day.”

(3) Further, in Genesis 2:4 the word “day” is used of all six days of creation when it affirms: “These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created in the day [yom] that the LORD God made them” (Gen. 2:4).

(4) What is more, on the “seventh day” God “rested” from His work of creation. But according to Hebrews 4:4-11, God is still resting and we can enter into His Sabbath rest (v. 10). So, the seventh day of creation rest is still going on some 6000 plus years later (even by a Young Earth chronology).

(5) Further, there are biblical alternatives to the strongest argument for a 24 hour day. (a) For example, numbered series with the word “day” (as in Genesis 1) do not always refer to 24 hour days, as Hosea 6:1-2 shows. (b) Also, “evening and morning” sometimes refers to longer periods of time rather than 24 hours, as they do in the prophetic days of Daniel 8:14. (c) And the comparison with the work week in Exodus 20:11 need not be a minute-for-minute but a unit-for-unit comparison. Further, the seventh day is known to be longer than 24 hours (Heb. 4:4-11). So, why cannot the other days be longer too? (d) As for death before Adam, the Bible does not say that death of all life was a result of Adam’s sin. It only asserts that “death passed upon all men” because of Adam’s sin (Rom. 5:12, emphasis added), not on all plants and animals, though the whole creation was subject to “bondage to corruption” (Rom. 8:21).

(6) Others like Hermon Ridderbos (Is There a Conflict Between Genesis 1 and Natural Science?) took the “days” of Genesis as a Literary Framework for the great creative events of the past. Still others (Bernard Ramm, The Christian View of Science and Scripture) considered the “days” of Genesis to be six 24 hour days of revelation (wherein God revealed what he had done in the ancient past to the writer of Genesis) but not literal days of creation. Again, the point here is not to defend these views but to point out that there are alternatives to a Young Earth View, most of which are not incompatible in principle with a belief in the inerrancy of Scripture.

(7) The Relative Time View claims the Earth is both young and old, depending on how it is measured. Gerard Schroeder, a Jewish physicists (in Genesis and the Big Bang), argued that measured by God’s time when He created the universe it was only six literal days of creation. But measured by our time, the creation of the universe is billions of years old.

(8) The Apparent Age View proposes that the universe just looks old, even though it is young. The book by Philip Henry Gosse was titled Omphalos (1857), meaning navel, proposing that Adam had a navel, even though he was created as an adult. Likewise, on this view the first tree would have had rings in them the day they were created.

If there is evidence for Gaps in Genesis and longer period of time involved in the six day of Genesis, then the Young Earth view fails to convincingly support its two pillars. At a minimum it leaves room for reasonable doubt. In view of this, one can ask why is it that many still cling to the Young Earth view with such tenacity.

A Theological Assumption

For some the belief in a Young Earth seems to be based on a kind of intuition or faith in God’s omnipotence. It reasons that if God is all powerful, then certainly He would not have taken millions of years to make the earth. However, by reduction ad absurdum, one could ask why God did not create it in six minutes or six second rather than six days? If He is all-powerful and can make something from nothing, then why did He not create the whole thing lock-stock-and barrel instantaneously!

The Evolutionary Fear

Many Young Earthers seemed to be afraid to grant long periods of time for fear that it may help support an evolutionary conclusion. However, this is unnecessary for two reasons. First, time as such does not help evolution. Dropping red, white, and blue confetti from an airplane a thousand feet above the ground will not produce an American flag in one’s yard. And going up to ten thousand feet (and giving it more time to fall) will not help. Time as such does not organize things into complex designs; it further randomizes the material. It takes an intelligent cause to form it into an American flag. Further, separating God’s supernatural acts of revelation to Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, and the prophets by many hundreds of years does not make them less supernatural. It just makes his revelation progressive over a period of time. The same could be true of God’s acts of creation, if they were separated by long periods of time.

Second, there are plenty of other problems with macro-evolution for it does not explain (without an intervening intelligent cause) how (a) something can come from nothing; b) how non life cannot come from life; c) how non-consciousness can produce consciousness, and d) how non-rational beings can produce rational beings. Longer periods of time as such do not overcome any of these problems; it takes intelligent intervention to do it.

As we have seen, both premise of the Young Earth View are open to serous objections. There is no air-tight case for a Young Earth from a biblical point of view. So, while it may be compatible with inerrancy, nonetheless, inerrancy does not necessitate a belief in a Young Earth.

The Historical Status of the Young Earth Theory

Historically, the Young Earth View has never garnered an important, let alone a crucial role in the history of the Church. It was known to the early Church Fathers (see St. Augustine, City of God 11.6), but it was never made an essential doctrine, let alone given a special status.

First of all, Young Earth creationism was never given a creedal status in the early Church. It does not appear in any early creeds or in any other widely accepted creed in the history of Christendom.

Second, it was not granted an important doctrinal status by the historic Fundamentalist (c. 1900). That is, it was not accepted or embraced by the Old Princetonians B. B.Warfield, Charles Hodge, or J. Gresham Machen.

Third, Young Earth creationism is notably absent in the famous four volume series (1910-1915) The Fundamentals: A Testimony to the Truth edited by R. A. Torrey and C. C. Dixon. In fact, not a single article in this landmark set defends the Young Earth Creationism view. Indeed, all the articles on science and Scripture were written by scholars favorable to an Old Earth view.

Fourth, the founders and framers of the contemporary inerrancy movement (ICBI) of the 1970 and 80s explicitly rejected the Young Earth view as being essential to belief in inerrancy. They discussed it and voted against making it a part of what they believed inerrancy entailed, even though they believed in the “literal” historical-grammatical view of interpreting the Bible, a literal Adam, and the historicity of the early chapters of Genesis. Given this history of the Young Earth view, one is surprised at the zeal by which some Young Earthers are making their position a virtual test for evangelical orthodoxy

If the Young Earth view is true, then so be it. Let the biblical and scientific evidence be mustered to demonstrate it. Meanwhile, to make it a tacit test for orthodoxy will serve to undermine the faith of many who so closely tie it to orthodoxy that they will have to throw out the baby with the bathwater, should they ever become convinced the earth is Old. One should never tie his faith to how old the earth is.

Even if the Young Earth view were true, it would not thereby earn it a position in the Christian Creed or the equivalent. That is another matter altogether reserved for truth that are essential to the Gospel (see Geisler and Rhodes, Conviction without Compromise). There are many minor Christian doctrines that have not earned creedal status along with The Apostles’ Creed which declares of creation only that “I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth” (emphasis added) and nothing about how long ago it happened.

Some Concluding Comments

After seriously pondering these questions for over a half century, my conclusions are: (1) The Young Earth view is not one of the Fundamentals of the Faith. (2) It is not a test for orthodoxy. (3) It is not a condition of salvation. (4) It is not a test of Christian fellowship. (5) It is not an issue over which the body of Christ should divide. (6) It is not a hill on which we should die. (7) The fact of creation is more important than the time of creation. (8) There are more important doctrines on which we should focus (like the inerrancy of the Bible, the deity of Christ, the Trinity, and the death and resurrection of Christ, and His literal Second Coming. As Repertus Meldenius (d. 1651) put it: “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty, and in all things charity.” And by all counts, the age of the earth is not one of the essentials of the Christian Faith.


48 posted on 05/29/2014 12:01:08 PM PDT by Eccl 10:2 (Prov 3:5 --- "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding")
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To: joethedrummer

“Look at turtles. Born small. Go to your state fair and they have a HUGE one that is 300 years old. It kept growing with time.. Couldn’t it be POSSIBLE that dinosaurs were the same???”

Well, we know dinosaurs started out pretty small, because we have the eggs to see exactly how large they were at birth. So it’s not far-fetched that someone might have been able to pack up a bunch of juveniles on a boat without a lot of trouble. It might have gotten a little cramped after a year of growth though.

Still, we can look at similar-sized animals we can observe, like elephants, and see that even 1 year old elephants have a way to go to get to adult size. Also, elephants are mammals, so they have several months of headstart on reptiles, since mammals can start growing while in the womb. A similar sized reptile, all other factors being equal, should be smaller at one year than a mammal.

One thing that is fascinating to me about the size question is that it doesn’t seem possible for any creature to grow to the size of the larger dinosaurs in today’s environment. Anything much bigger than an elephant or a giraffe just wouldn’t be able to live without some new kind of biology. Yet, not just dinosaurs, but all sorts of creatures like insects and plants grew to enormous sizes at some point in history. I tend to think that it was very different atmospheric conditions that allowed this hypergrowth, and that could explain how dinosaurs died suddenly, if it was an atmospheric change they could not adjust to.


49 posted on 05/29/2014 4:19:30 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Eccl 10:2

“If you narrowly and mindlessly trace back the events in the Bible, and insist that a “day” is only a 24 hour period (which even the Bible says it isn’t), then yes, the Earth and the Universe is only 6,000 and some years old. I’m sure there are even more misguided calculations that say the Universe began on Monday, April xx, 6xxx BC. At 6:00 am, EST.”

Misguided calculations like the traditional Hebrew calendar, which gives nearly the same date range as Usher’s calculation?

I just find it funny that so many Christians seem so quick to scurry and line up behind the wisdom of the world if there might be a conflict with the Word of God, and the traditional reading thereof, when it comes to this one point.

You don’t see that reaction so much when it comes to other issues, at least not yet. Who knows, though? Maybe in a few years we will be lucky enough to have people coming around telling us that it’s only a narrow, mindless reading of the Bible that could arrive at the conclusion that two men can’t marry, or that murder is murder whether the child has been delivered or not.


50 posted on 05/29/2014 4:27:04 PM PDT by Boogieman
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