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The Ten Commandments: A Concise Summary for High School Students (and Adults)
CERC ^ | May 29, 2014 | DEACON DOUGLAS MCMANAMAN

Posted on 05/29/2014 2:06:09 PM PDT by NYer

The Ten Commandments in the Torah (Exodus 20) are a formulation of the basic precepts (principles) of morality.

Jews and Christians believe they were revealed by God to Moses, though to understand the content of those precepts does not require the supernatural virtue of faith as such, but are understandable through the natural light of human reason.  Let's go over each one:


1.  You shall have no other gods besides the Lord your God:  As you know by now, it is of the utmost importance to read Scripture in its historical context.  Thus, let's keep in mind that the Jews spent years in Egypt, and when Moses came down from Mount Sinai, he found them engaged in revelry; they'd fallen into the worship of the Egyptian god, Apis, who is represented in the Egyptian pantheon as a bull (Ex 32, 1ff).  Apis was the god of strength and fertility, that is, power and wealth.

To worship something is to make it the center around which your life revolves.  There are many possible things around which a person might center his life.  Although very few can be found who actually bow before idols of gold, few can be found who have not made the pursuit of power and wealth their chief purpose in life.  No matter what form it may take, violating the first commandment, which is the sin of idolatry, is nothing other than the worship of the self; for the pursuit of power and money as one's principal end is, in the end, a pursuit of the self as center of one's life.


2.  You shall not take the Lord's name in vain:  The primary way of violating this commandment is to "swear" an oath, using God's name: "... so help me God" — thus calling on God as a witness that you are telling the truth — and then lying.  This is perjury.  The commandment is also violated when using the name of God as a curse, typically in response to anger, or simply using God's name frivolously, without reverence.  This is "swearing" in the true sense of the world.  Using foul language that does not include the name of God (i.e., the "s" word) is not the same as swearing.  The latter is certainly inconsiderate and a sign of a lack of self-control, but it is much less serious than swearing in the true sense of the word.


3.  Keep holy the Sabbath day:  For Jews, the Sabbath begins on Friday evening and continues throughout the following Saturday.  For Christians, because Christ rose from the dead on Sunday, the Sabbath begins on Saturday evening and continues throughout the following Sunday.  For the Jews, the word 'sacred' means 'set apart.'  The Sabbath is set apart from all other days as a day of worship and contemplation.  This life is about preparing for eternal life, and eternal life is a life of eternal worship and contemplation of God as He is in Himself.  This is represented in the 7 day work week, which is an ever recurring microcosm of human life to remind us where we are going.  Each day of the week is a work day, but our labour is ordered towards 'rest', which is the Sabbath (saba is Hebrew for 'seven' and 'oath' by which we enter into covenant).  Leisure is a holy activity, and the highest way to leisure is to contemplate, and the highest form of contemplation is to contemplate the highest being, which is God.  The very word 'holiday' means holy day.  Western culture has lost a sense of this notion of holiday as a holy day, which is why holidays are devoted less to worship than they are to 'shopping.'  Consumerism has become the new religion, and the malls have become the new churches.

 

No matter what form it may take, violating the first commandment, which is the sin of idolatry, is nothing other than the worship of the self; ...

4.  Honour your father and mother, so that you may live long in the land that the Lord is giving you:  We have a debt to our parents, a debt that we cannot fully repay.  But we are obligated in justice to repay that debt as much as we are able.  We do that by honouring them.  To honour, for the Jews, meant 'to glorify.'  We are called to glorify our parents, who are glorified by our success, because our success reflects back on them.  We need to be careful, however, of the way we define success; for it has come to mean a number of different things for different people.  Good marks, a well-paying job, material prosperity are "success" relatively speaking, but one can achieve a great deal in this area and turn out to be a moral failure, and that dishonours our parents.  Human success has more to do with human integrity, which is a moral achievement.  A saint is an example of what it means to be a genuine success.


5.  You shall not kill:  The human person is created in the image and likeness of God, that is, in the image of "knowledge and love", or "mind and heart."  In other words, a human being is like God insofar as he is a person who has the power to think and choose freely.  Everything else in creation, i.e., plants, animals, minerals, exists to serve his needs.  The human person, on the other hand, was willed into existence by God for his own sake, not as an instrument of the state or an instrument to be used by others (i.e., slavery in all its many forms).  We destroy instruments when they are no longer useful (we throw out old computers, televisions, pens, clocks, etc.).  But the value of a human being cannot be calculated on the basis of his/her usefulness; to do so is to reduce him or her to a mere instrument to be used.  As this utilitarian mentality spreads throughout a culture, we see a corresponding increase in the direct and indirect killing of others (i.e., abortion, infanticide, euthanasia, fraud, the murder of reputations, indifference to the sick, the suffering, the poor, etc.).


6.  You shall not commit adultery:  The first and immediate community into which we are born is the family, which is the fundamental unit of society, often compared to the cell of the human body.  The family begins in marriage, and marriage is holy.  It is an institution, that is, an organization that exists for the public welfare.  In other words, it is more than a private friendship.  Moreover, it was established by God (see Gn 2, 24).  Marriage is a complete and mutual self-giving of two, male and female; as such it is a joining of two into a one flesh, one body union.  Because this self-giving is total, it is physical, until death, exclusive and undivided, and it is ordered to the generation of new life.  The act of sexual union is an expression of this one flesh union; adultery is an act of infidelity to one's marital promises and reduces the sexual act to a lie (one is joining himself to someone who is not his spouse).  The precept against adultery includes, within its scope, all sexual activity that is outside of marriage.


7.  You shall not steal:  A right always corresponds to a duty, and so if you have a duty to raise your children, to protect, feed and educate them, etc., then you have a right to the means needed to achieve that end.  This means you have a right to the property you need to carry out your obligation.  But that property has to be purchased, and the first step to purchasing the property we need is to develop our skills in order to create wealth (i.e., goods and/or services).  To purchase property, you must enter into a mutually agreed upon transaction with another or others, and so you produce something that someone else wants and is willing to pay for (money is simply an artificial means of exchange).  So you have agreed, for example, to produce a table (since you possess those skills) for someone who has agreed to pay the cost of the materials and labour.  Now, to steal is to take property that rightfully belongs to another; thus, if I steal from you, what I am doing in effect is changing the terms of your agreements with others.  For example, you earned $100 as a result of a mutually agreed upon transaction involving your skills (i.e., carpentry, accounting, or teaching skills, etc.), but I take that money when you are not looking.  Essentially, what I have done is I have decided, without your permission or knowledge, that you are going to produce that table for him, but he is going to pay me for it.  This is a violation of justice.


8.  You shall not bear false witness: A liar is a person who cannot be trusted.  He is one who brings about a "split" within himself, that is, a division, a degree of disintegration.  Lying is an immediate violation of "integrity"; for there is a separation between what is in the liar's word and what is in his mind.  Although the truth is in his mind, it is not in his word.

As the liar continues to lie — for we are creatures of habit — he gradually loses himself, and at some point his loss is virtually irretrievable.

But man has been created in the image and likeness of God, who is absolutely one with His Word, which is why everything comes into existence through the power of His Word: "God said: Let there be light, and there was light..."  Hence, I ought to become increasingly one with my words, not divided from them; for the more our word becomes united and filled with the content of the truth that is in us, the more like God we become.  The more our word is emptied of that content and is made to express not ourselves but some other falsehood (as happens when we lie), the more unlike God we become.

Lying involves a kind of meditation.  Consider a poorly constructed lie: "I couldn't return your urgent call because I was out all weekend, hunting elephants."  It is easy to see through such a lie — not much thought has gone into it.  A more carefully crafted lie requires more thought and meditation.

Why meditation?  The reason is that the mind thinks, but the spirit meditates, and when the liar thinks of the best way to craft his lie, his spirit is open to the best suggestions.  But spirit opens upon spirit, not flesh.  The spirit of the liar does not open upon God, who is Spirit and Truth, but upon the spirit whom Christ refers to as "the father of lies" (Jn 8, 44), whom Scripture refers to as the most crafty of all God's creatures (Gn 3, 1).  The crafty liar engages in a kind of anti-prayer.  And the "split" within the self that the liar brings about by lying is a fissure through which the influence of darkness seeps in even further.

As the liar continues to lie — for we are creatures of habit — he gradually loses himself, and at some point his loss is virtually irretrievable.  Soon he will begin to delight in his lies, because through his successes he demonstrates to himself his apparent intellectual superiority over all who have been hoodwinked, every one of whom has become a means to the liar's own ends, puppets within the environment he schemes to construct for himself.

Lying is the very antithesis of prayer, and its effects are equally opposed to those of genuine prayer, such as integration, light, community, and salvation.  The only remedy against lying is a commitment that absolutely excludes it, always, everywhere, and in every circumstance.


9 & 10.  You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; You shall not covet your neighbor's goods:  To covet, as used here, is to have inordinate desire for something or someone.  The one who covets is unsatisfied with what he has; or more to the point, with what he is.  Everything is subject to the providence of God, and everything that happens is contained within the larger plan of divine providence.  This is true even in light of the fact that human beings make free choices.  Now all of us have a place within the plan of divine providence.  We all have our place in this world, just as an artist assigns a specific place to a particular dab of paint of a particular color.  Our place contributes to the splendor of the whole plan of providence fully realised.  The problem is we love ourselves too much, and so we must spend the rest of our lives working to decrease that inordinate love of self in order to give greater increase to the love of God and the entire plan of providence.  Coveting is a sign that have work to do; it is an indication that we still desire to exceed our natural limitations, to be more than what we are.  And that's the root of the problems in this world; we love ourselves too much and others not enough.  This commandment calls us to learn to love others as 'another self', to delight in their blessings as if they were our own.  The more progress we make along these lines, the happier we become, because the happiness of others eventually becomes our own.


A final thought.  There is a reason why the first three commandments have to do with our relationship with God, while the last seven govern our relationship to our neighbours.  The reason is that we simply cannot love our neighbour unless we love God first.  A right relationship with our neighbor is simply the result of a right relationship with God.  If I do not see my neighbour in relation to God, that is, as belonging to Him, it is not long before I begin to love him primarily for the sake of what he does for me.  It is only when I see him from God's point of view that I can love him for his own sake, and not for my sake, because God has loved each person into existence for his own sake.  Our love of neighbour will merely be an extension or an expression of our love for God.  If an atheist truly and genuinely loves his neighbor for his own sake — something I am simply unable to judge with any certainty, one way or another — then I would have to say that such an "atheist" loves God without explicitly knowing it, just as whoever says, "I love God," but hates his brother, is a liar, "for whoever does not love a brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen" (1 Jn 4, 20).


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 05/29/2014 2:06:09 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 05/29/2014 2:06:41 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

Commandment 5 is described in error.

Murder is forbidden, not killing.

The original is quite clear, so this is either an error driven by agenda or sloppy writing.


3 posted on 05/29/2014 2:24:09 PM PDT by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est - because of what Islam is and because of what Muslims do.)
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To: Alex Murphy; metmom; Elsie
To worship something is to make it the center around which your life revolves. There are many possible things around which a person might center his life.

Like Mary?

4 posted on 05/29/2014 3:03:02 PM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: GladesGuru

Very correct. To kill is simply to end life. It carries no moral connotation.


5 posted on 05/29/2014 3:21:49 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: NYer

Actually nine with one statement.


6 posted on 05/29/2014 3:35:29 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: NYer

The 10 commandants were written to keep old Jewish men in charge.


7 posted on 05/29/2014 4:10:25 PM PDT by Tzimisce
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To: GladesGuru; NYer; Viennacon

Using “kill” in place of “murder” is, I’ve been told, based upon the KJV translation. When “kill” was commonly understood to mean what we now call murder. Something premeditated. such as Cain murdered Able.


8 posted on 05/29/2014 4:31:16 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: NYer

A note should be made that Jews do not consider Christians to be the inheritors of Mosaic law, but instead are covered by the seven laws of Noah, the Noahide Laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Laws_of_Noah

They see it as somewhat paradoxical that Christians would generally disregard the Hebraic laws, statutes and judgments devolving from Mosaic law, which is according to Christian doctrines, yet embrace just the Ten Commandments.

And even stranger that Christians would cherry pick *some* of the Hebraic laws, statutes and judgements, even though their doctrines tell them they have been superseded.


9 posted on 05/29/2014 4:50:18 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: Gamecock

Thankfully there is not single Catholic that does this, in spite of the constant violation of the eighth commandment by prots about this.


10 posted on 05/29/2014 5:07:30 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertatian)
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To: verga

It is quite evident that they do.


11 posted on 05/29/2014 5:09:18 PM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: NYer
The Ten Commandments: A Concise Summary for High School Students (and Adults)
Lists Every Catholic Should be Familiar With: The 10 Commandments
The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments? Ecumenical]

The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Christian Morality
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, The Ten Commandments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, First Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Second Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Third Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Fourth Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Fifth Commandment
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Sixth and Ninth Commandments
The Essentials of the Catholic Faith, Part Three: The Will of God, Seventh and Tenth Commandments

The Essentials of the Catholic Faith; Part Three: The Will of God, Eighth Commandment
Catechism of Aquinas |SUMMARY OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS| THE OUR FATHER & FIVE QUALITIES OF PRAYER
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 34: The First Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 35: The Second Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 36: The Third Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 37: The Fourth Commandment
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 38: The Fifth Commandment (w / special prayer request)
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 39: The Sixth and Ninth Commandments
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 40: The Seventh and Tenth Commandments
A Brief Catechism for Adulst - Lesson 41: The Eighth Commandment

12 posted on 05/29/2014 5:13:32 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer; GladesGuru; Gamecock; SkyDancer; Viennacon
What christianity has labeled as the “Ten Commandments” is a blunt and complete misrepresentation of what Moses was given by God. In the Tanakh what was inscribed on those stone tablets are called “The Ten Words or “The Ten Sayings”. They were the Ten Words because there were only ten words inscribed on the tablets.

The first time the hebrew name Asereth ha-D'bharîm was mistranslated as the “Ten Commandments” was the Geneva Bible in 1557ad. The King James Bible followed and the Asereth ha-D'bharîm has been mistranslated in christianity as the Ten Commandments ever since. However, the Septuagint did properly translate the Ten Sayings as the dekalogos literally meaning the “Ten Words”.

The two stone tablets of which Moses famously brought down from Mount Sinai were also not labeled the “Ten Commandments” or the “Commandments Tablets”, or any variation thereof. In the Tanakh they are called Luchot HaBrit or the the “Tablets of the Covenant”. The first tablet, containing the first five declarations, identifies duties regarding our relationship with God, while the second tablet, containing the last five declarations, identifies duties regarding our relationship with other people.

The above facts have significant meaning because the Ten Words were never considered to be the “core commandments” nor were the Ten Words considered to be a “paring down of the Law of Moses”. Simply put, from the inception of the Law of Moses, the Ten Words were a simple categorizing of the Law, or the summary headings of the whole Law. Each word on the tablets corresponds to a whole section of the Law, each word represents a whole chapter of the Law.

The significance is awesome in that while christianity has erroneously taught that the Torah or Mosaic Law has a singular purpose, the ancient biblical and cultural understanding of even the Ten Commandments shows that the Torah is not singular in purpose. Jesus taught as much and whether it was First Temple Judaism or Second Temple Judaism the meaning of the Ten Words never changed and Jesus himself never changed them. Just as Jesus taught the whole of the Law and Torah, you cannot have the Ten Words separate from the Law and Torah. The Ten Words are the written Mosaic Law and vice versa.
13 posted on 05/29/2014 7:11:29 PM PDT by brent13a
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To: brent13a

Was just saying.


14 posted on 05/29/2014 7:21:59 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: NYer

Just one thing I disagree.

Keep holy the Sabbath day:
The Christians worship on the first day of the week but it
can not be their Sabbath if they also believe in the father.

Exodus 20
8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,


15 posted on 05/29/2014 10:38:24 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Gamecock
It is quite evident that they do.

And every Catholic wishes that the prots would quit violating the eighth commandment. Start a trend be the first.

16 posted on 05/30/2014 2:44:51 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertatian)
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To: Gamecock
Like Mary?

ARRRGH!!!

Not another Catholic-bashing thread!!!!

17 posted on 05/30/2014 4:11:29 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga
Thankfully there is not single Catholic that does this, in spite of the constant violation of the eighth commandment by prots about this.

"Just look carefully, I only want you to look carefully. Do not repeat the lies of liars. Do not become like them. Once again, I blame Al-Jazeera before it ascertains what takes place. Please, make sure of what you say and do not play such a role."

18 posted on 05/30/2014 4:14:24 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Salvation

It’s really interesting that AFTER the ‘ten’ were given; there seems to be NO ‘explantion’ of them to be found in the Bible...


19 posted on 05/30/2014 4:20:19 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: brent13a
What christianity has labeled as the “Ten Commandments” is a blunt and complete misrepresentation of what Moses was given by God.

"Search for the truth. I tell you things and I always ask you to verify what I say. I told you yesterday that there was an attack and a retreat at Saddam's airport."

20 posted on 05/30/2014 4:21:43 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
Just one thing I disagree.


Acts 15

The Council at Jerusalem
 1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.

 5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

 12 The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13 When they finished, James spoke up. “Brothers,” he said, “listen to me. 14 Simon[a] has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15 The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:

 16 “‘After this I will return
   and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
   and I will restore it,
17 that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
   even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’[b]
 18 things known from long ago.[c]

 19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

   The apostles and elders, your brothers,

   To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:

   Greetings.

 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

   Farewell.

 30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers. 33 After spending some time there, they were sent off by the believers with the blessing of peace to return to those who had sent them. [34] [d] 35 But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, where they and many others taught and preached the word of the Lord.

Disagreement Between Paul and Barnabas
 36 Some time later Paul said to Barnabas, “Let us go back and visit the believers in all the towns where we preached the word of the Lord and see how they are doing.” 37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the believers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.
21 posted on 05/30/2014 4:22:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga
And every Catholic wishes that the prots would quit violating the eighth commandment.

You shall have no other gods besides the Lord your God:


#11 It is quite ok to VENERATE and/or ADORE others to the MAX; as GOD needs all the help HE can get.

22 posted on 05/30/2014 4:24:57 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I don’t think you ever answered my question about Colton Burpo seeing and meeting Mary in heaven. Do you think he is lying? After all you keep denying her place in heaven.


23 posted on 05/30/2014 4:25:17 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertatian)
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To: Elsie

See my post about prots violating the eighth commandment.


24 posted on 05/30/2014 4:26:37 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertatian)
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To: NYer

Verse 20:4-6 always seems to be left out when certain folks discuss the thou shalt nots...


25 posted on 05/30/2014 6:12:30 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: Elsie

Ok, so how does that change the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day?

How does it change what day God rested on? if you took off work last Saturday and rested can you later change that day you rested to Sunday?

Can you change the date you were born?

Can we change the date or the outcome of Custer’s last stand?

I have no problem with holding Church service on Sunday or any other day of the week.

But we can not change the Sabbath to something it was not.


26 posted on 05/30/2014 7:34:54 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

And then there is God’s timekeeping He keeps in the sky for us - sun, moon and stars that were for signs, seasons, days and years..

And most use just the sun... unless it is a jewish feast month, then for two months, the moon gets involved for them..

Scripture says times and laws would try to be changed..and the premise we all accept is that the greco romam latin pope gregory calendar is the only way to tell time..
Problem is for the time the bible represents, there was no calculated gregorian.

That seems to have been accomplished.. and believers and non believers accept the wall calendars and smart phones as gospel truth for what day or month it is...

Just a little Wikipedia search of days of week or days of months and some of the origins, I found enough as a believer, to be uneasy with the gods and goddesses and creation represented for certain days/months...

That is a reason days are numbered in scripture.. not given ‘names’....

But a study of His calendar shows that the entire world of business, politics and religion would be hard pressed to scrap the calculated standard of the gregorian (or any calculated one) and observe His calendar and timekeeping He gave us in the sky..

Restoration of His timekeeping can occur when the Spirit moves in believers and convinces them that the world is counterfeit, set on a number of false premises and lies.. and one is that saturnsday or Sunsday is the sabbath from time immemorial..
They were both work days according to Ezekiel 46:1 in the last gregorian month...

We know restoration has occurred when Saturn’sday/Sun’sday debate has ended and the true Sabbath has been revealed...


27 posted on 05/30/2014 8:36:44 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: verga
I don’t think you ever answered my question about Colton Burpo seeing and meeting Mary in heaven. Do you think he is lying?

I don't jump through hoops well.

You really don't care WHAT I think about something that he alleges; do you?

28 posted on 05/30/2014 8:54:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: verga
See my post about prots violating the eighth commandment.

I did.

Have you read mine on mackerel snappers posting foolish things on FR?

29 posted on 05/30/2014 8:55:04 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: ravenwolf
I have no problem with holding Church service on Sunday or any other day of the week.

Seems that thou beest in goode companie.


Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.

30 posted on 05/30/2014 8:57:11 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: delchiante

I don`t know anything about all of that, but I agree that Gods time line is probably much different than ours, but if a day is ten thousand years or one of our days does not change anything.

What we are talking about here is that it is recorded that God rested on the seventh day and called it the Sabbath.

Many Christians say that the first day of the week is the Christian Sabbath.

Jesus being risen on the first day of the week does not Change the fact that God rested on the seventh day of the week.

We can not change the day God rested.


31 posted on 05/30/2014 9:22:14 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Elsie

Seems that thou beest in goode companie.


Right.


32 posted on 05/30/2014 10:04:17 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf
Messiah in scripture rose on first fruits, which is according to scripture, the 16th day of His first month...

That was a Gregorian Thor's day this year if the sun, moon and stars are used to tell time- not a Sunday... so I don't accept the premise that the Gregorian days are anything but a counterfeiting of scripture and God's timekeeping...

The messiah did rise on the first day of the week... and that first day isnt called Sunday in God's calendar.. It is called simply the first day of the week..

And the Gregorian floats around His calendar so even the gregorian Saturn's day or the Moon's day or Twi’s day, or Woden’s Day, or Thor's day or Frig’s Day or even the Sun's day can be the first day of His week because His pattern doesn't follow man's attempt to pattern Him..

Jews almost universally celebrated passover on a Moon's day this year, which was the 14th (a coincidence that the new moon occurred on the first day of the Gregorian month so the actual days in leviticus matched up to the months of april and may-rare..).

according to Torah, the next day, the 15th (a Twi’s day), is a sabbath because that is the feast of unleavened bread... the 16th or the feast of first fruits would be on the Woden’s day if they kept the feast accurately.. and resurrection day this year, by the Jews using the sun and moon together , clearly shows that the time immemorial annual Good Friday, Saturday, easter Sunday template to be counterfeit...

To make matters even more interesting, if the sun,moon and stars were all used together- Passover would have been in gregorian may... but easter was celebrated in april, before Passover!

God's calendar has no names for the days..and no postponement rules or suspension rules for when His real sabbath bumps up against the man made sabbath... and He uses those set times, sabbaths and feasts to show and shadow as rehearsals for His ultimate plan of salvation, written in the sky if only one would look up..

And it is in the Scriptures... and it can be revealed to anyone who asks, seeks and knocks.. and if prepared to live it, life changes will happen...

And when you can actually see the Messiah's life in the calendar? Wow... scripture unlocks so much that church can't..

I can say with confidence and biblical proof that scripture hints to the day He was born, when He was circumcised, the day He was dedicated to the temple, baptized, killed, rested and raised- and know that they were appointed times and set times in scripture(Torah)...(new moon, sabbath, feasts)

December 25 and easter Sunday doesn't do that because scripture and even the modern Jews show those days as man made and not scriptural..

It actually probably keeps Jews from even seeing the Messiah of Israel as they don't recognize Him as Torah in the flesh...

But if you believe the Word, the written oracles, became flesh and dwelt among us as the Living oracles , it stands to reason that those set times and appointed times in the Word would be important times in the Messiah's life on earth..

And each marker in His life can be found with His calendar with hints and proof in scripture..

Gregorian doesn't do that for us.Nor was it desiged to..

But our Heavenly Father's calendar always points to Him...Him is always the purpose,..
HalleluYah!!

33 posted on 05/30/2014 10:39:57 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: ravenwolf

Correction for you raven..

The 16th day, if the sun, moon and stars are used t determine the first month,
Was a Frig’s Day- the 15th and the Sabbath was on Thor’s day..

Sorry for the confusion..

Same applies though that as good Friday, Saturday and easter snday was celebrated, it wasn’t even passover yet if one uss the sun, moon and stars..


34 posted on 05/30/2014 10:44:12 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: delchiante

Was a Frig’s Day- the 15th and the Sabbath was on Thor’s day..


Thanks but as far i know the Church does not use the moon ,sun and stars to compute the dates, i have no quarrel about that.

My argument is based on the premise of the Church teaching.


35 posted on 05/30/2014 12:21:48 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

The church uses the sun only for its calendar basis.. and then has it’s traditional worship on the sun’s day... (not Son’s day)

There were ancient peoples before Messiah walked the earth who did the same exact thing... obelisks and pregnant domes are some of the symbols and are even used today that represent that ancient sun god worship...

As for the church, it teaches that He was killed on something called good frig’s day and raised on a sun’s day...

The scriptures says He died on passover and raised on first fruits..
.
And it appars that never the two (the church and scripture) should meet on this :)

I will trust scripture over the traditons of men.

And it is awesome to know when the Messiah was truly born- and He doesn’t share His day with any pagan gods or goddesses like December 25 appears to...


36 posted on 05/30/2014 5:14:57 PM PDT by delchiante
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To: delchiante

I will trust scripture over the traditons of men.


I will too, but I do not think the modern church intentionally uses pagan beliefs in their rituals, they have just been sold a bill of goods.

The scriptures says He died on passover and raised on first fruits..>>>>

But what I read in my bible is that Jesus rose on the first day of the week, I have saw nothing about the first fruits, if I did it has not got my attention

And it is awesome to know when the Messiah was truly born>>>>

I don`t know when Jesus was born but I doubt very much if it was December the 25th and yes I believe it is another pagan day, not because I know anything but just by the way it smells, so to speak.

I only believe what Jesus taught and am not fond of any religion.

The reason I brought up the Sabbath is because the Church teaches just what the KJV Bible says, that God rested on the seventh day and called it the Sabbath rest.

But then they call the 1st day of our week )Sunday )the Christian Sabbath, some simply because Paul preached on the 1st day of the week and others because Jesus rose on that day.

When it comes right down to it I do not know when the seventh day was but I do know that to change it God would have to go back and do it all over again.

Jesus told his apostles that they would be hated for his name sake, he was a Jew and the Jews kept the Sabbath even if wrongly.

I believe the Roman church started holding the first day of the week as the Sabbath for two reasons, one was to come to terms with the non Jewish people who believed in the worship on the Sabbath day an two to get the pagans in on the Christian rituals.

Not to mention it would alienate the Jews.

The Sabbath is the day of rest but for hundreds of years Sunday has been the day of rest, not only in the Christian world but also forced on the people who have no such belief.


37 posted on 05/30/2014 6:38:31 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

Sadly, too many have no idea what the feasts represent like first fruits- or when they are or what a new moon day is/was.. Jews are as much at fault for they have conformed themselves to the world in many respects too and have failed as a holy, set apart nation of priests.

But as gentile believers we have many who say He fulfills the feasts and set times.. and then go about and not even mark those as times that are special..

We kind of sort of know about passover but all of Torah is amazing for a believer to study.. I spent more time in Leviticus 23 than in anything when asking, seeking and knocking :)
It is a template for the Messiah’s entire life, death and His return..

Those feasts are construed as ‘Jewish feasts’ but everything the Jews endured and were taught were rehearsals for the coming of their king and the kingdom and us gentiles could learn a lot from them.. and maybe even teach the Jews something that could provoke them to jealousy..

I wonder now if Jews wonder why the day of atonement is on the 10th day of the seventh month? Or why scripture says to circumcise your male on the 8th day? Or why there were ceremonies and banquets of the ‘new moon day’? Or why a male babe must wait 40 days to be dedicated to the temple?

All of those were ordinances and rules in Torah and it’s because everything in ‘The Word’ points to ‘The Word’ that became flesh!

New moons, Sabbaths and set feasts are rehearsals and confirmation that the messiah has indeed come and will come again and all of these will be restored..

From study and His grace I have come to see the Messiah set days as ‘findable’ amd seachable’

Messiah was born, according to scripture, on the new moon day (1st day) of the 6th month of His calendar- under the sign in the sky of Virgo,when the new moon was under her feet..(revelation 12 is a zodiac sign)

Messiah was circumcised, then, on the 8th day of the month according to Torah, which is a seventh day sabbath, and by the prophets, who were given the template in Ezekiel 46:1, as told by our Heavenly Father:
Day 1 of month- new moon day
Day 2-7 of month, six work days
Day 8 of month, seventh day sabbath (pattern would then be the 15th,22nd and 29th days as Sabbaths in His months)

Messiah and His mother, Miriam, had to wait another 33 days before her purification was done, according to Torah.

Male babies at 40 days, per Torah, were to be dedicated to the temple.

It just so happens that 40 days after the Messiah was born falls exactly on the 10th day of the 7th month. According to Torah, that day is Yom Kippurl or the Day of Atonement!
There are ‘hints’ to these in the new testament..
And at the tender age of 45 days, He would have celebrated His first Tabernacles and ‘dwelt’ among them..

And at the age of 30, our Messiah was baptized to begin His ministry. If we follow the story, He then went into the wilderness for 40 days and nights.

(Which is the same amount of time of purification between His birth and His dedication to the temple)
The Jews as a matter of fact, have a ‘40 days of awe’ that begins on the first day of the 6th month and ends on the Day of Atonement(Yom Kippur) on the 10th day of atonement..

Jews note it is because of Moses on the mountain but if we are believers in the Word that became flesh, The Word all points to the Messiah ultimately and it corresponds to His 40 days of purification at His birth and the 40 days of purification in the wilderness..

And then, we of course have His entry, death , burial and resurrection that follows exactly as Torah says.

Death on the 14th, rested (even in death He rested on the Sabbath) on the 15th, and was raised the third day( 16th day-first day of the week, after the 7th day Sabbath, which is a High sabbath in scripture) which is the feast of first fruits - why Paul called Him the first fruits of those who sleep..

I can tell you, without study of His full Word and His Help, I would not know any of this.but complete faith in His Truth is what I was asking for.. not what people told me to believe..

With studying His calendar and timekeeping and comparing it to today’s calculated calendars, I saw he importance of the new moons, sabbaths and set feasts to what our Heavenly Father was giving to Israel and to us and how the Messiah in his life, death, resurrection and return, is truly the Savior of the Whole world- and I can back it up with what the Bereans used, Torah and the prophets..

And you just don’t get that from the church. They seem to have substituted their own savior for His.. with a substitute birth day, death day, and resurrection day...even his name is a substitute... Worship in Spirit and Truth?

That worries me greatly..and it didn’t two years ago before I asked, sought and knocked..

Today, I can defend my faith in the Messiah of Israel.. I am not so sure I can defend the savior of today’s church,.


38 posted on 05/31/2014 9:23:16 AM PDT by delchiante
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To: delchiante

They seem to have substituted their own savior for His.. with a substitute birth day, death day,


I can assume that the ones who say that Jesus was born on the 25th of December are probably wrong but many admit they do not know.

As for resting on the Sabbath and raising on the first day of the week, most will say that Jesus was raised on the first day of the week, but I have not heard any one say that he rested on the Sabbath.

We kind of sort of know about passover but all of Torah is amazing for a believer to study.. I spent more time in Leviticus 23 than in anything when asking, seeking and knocking :)
It is a template for the Messiah’s entire life, death and His return..>>>>>

I have no doubt that the things you have said explain many things.

But you may have heard the saying G.P.C. (go preach Christ or go plant corn)

I believe most people including my self were told to go plant corn.

To put it plain, what you are saying is not simple to me at all but what Jesus said is simple, so I will just have to take your word for it as you seem to know where you are coming from.

I have read the O.T enough to know that God rested on the seventh day and called it the Sabbath rest and it is said to be an ever lasting commandment.

It is also history and I do not think we can change history.

So that was my reason for disputing the so called Christian Sabbath.


39 posted on 05/31/2014 11:01:39 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

Our Heavenly Father placed His seal(name, title and territory ) in the Sabbath commandment.

If you believe that Satan is a master counterfeiter, which I do, would there be a potential counterfeit sabbath that would rob proper worship from our Heavenly Father? One that instead of sealing His children in the hand and the frontlets of the eyes, it marks them?

Here are some seal and ‘mark’ verses- Deut 6:5-9; deut11:18-19, exodus 13:9,16-19; exodus 31:13, jeremiah 44:25, revelation 22:4, revelation 14:9-12- rev 16:2, rev 19:20, rev 20:4, rev 14:1,rev 12:12

So biblically I ask, can a substitute sabbath be created that robs worship?...And it is counterfeits with a counterfeit calendar, so no can find His True Sabbath (currently named after a pope, pope gregory) and.. that calendar will counterfeit holy days and make new ones up and let’s throw in even a counterfeit savior (named jesus, the greco roman latin name instead of the english transliteration- joshua, which is an actual name found in the old testament) ...
Add to this that some believers and some churches teach that He has done away with the law, especially the sabbath law?

Could Satan be that evil, crafty and subtle enough that even the very elect could be deceived?

Scripture says its possible....
And I don’t read revelation in the same light as the church.. I see parts of them(maybe most of them) on the wrong side...
Revelation and Daniel are happening today... and the whole world has wondered after the beast..
And we are called to come out of her....


40 posted on 05/31/2014 8:43:39 PM PDT by delchiante
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To: delchiante

Revelation and Daniel are happening today... and the whole world has wondered after the beast..
And we are called to come out of her....


I most likely see a lot of it the same way, it looks to me like the harlot and her daughters are the Catholic Church and the daughters are the ones that sprang from her,

At the same time I believe the gospel has been preached to all of the world for a witness as Jesus said it would.

So biblically I ask, can a substitute sabbath be created that robs worship?...>>>>>

I believe the Sabbath day was originally for rest, so if we are resting in regards to the commandment I think that would be worship.

The 1st day of the week is the false day of rest.

and let’s throw in even a counterfeit savior (named jesus,>>>

Here is where we do not agree, regardless of if his name is Jesus or Joshua he is the Son of God so it does not matter what the name is but it is Jesus in the Bible I read.

If Jesus is a counterfeit then we better figure the whole bible is counterfeit, why would I put any credibility in revelations if I thought I could not put any in the gospels?

Here is the one thing we need to consider.

Jeremiah 31
31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The above covenant was put into affect on the day of Pentecost.

Still there is no such thing as a Sunday Sabbath, also Jesus taught that we are to keep the commandments but we are to do it with love rather than fear because no one is going to stone us to death if we don`t, well I better hope not.

We are to keep Gods laws in our hearts and minds because that is where God said he would put them.

A man can keep the commandments to the very letter but if they are not in his heart and it is just for the sake of religion it is for nothing.

And we are called to come out of her....>>>>

I came out of the Church several years ago.

.


41 posted on 06/01/2014 12:27:28 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

We all meet the savior as jesus because every thing in christianity points to it.. all the songs, bibles, leaders etc.
But that isnt a name His mother used... Nor His disciples... the name did not exist when He walked the earth... the Words attributed to the Messiah are Truth in scripture though...

Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8- what does your bible say?

My old reprint from 1599 has ‘Jesus’ in both places even though it was discussing Joshua of the OT.
The newer translations have made the change to both of those Jesus’ to Joshua because it was referring to the Joshua who led Israel into the promised land and the name Jesus made no sense...

Sounds insignificant on its own...translation just seems to be clearing up the confusion.

but if it is the same name,why wouldnt the english Joshua work for the other 900 plus times ‘jesus’ occurs in the New Testament?
Of course Joshua isn’t the name either, as it is also a transliteration, but it is at least an english transliteration...

Tradition is obviously a big part..

Now, when adding things piece by piece, the evidence started adding up..

There even is our misunderstanding of the word ‘Antichrist’.. ‘anti’ in our culture means ‘against’ but in the Greek concordance language it has been defined as ‘in place of’or ‘instead of’... I prefer the word ‘substitute’..

But an ‘in place of’ messiah or ‘instead of’messiah would also work, but a little awkward..

The problem with counterfeit anything is if one doesnt know and study the genuine, the counterfeit cannot be detected...it can slip right by...

People who are trained to spot counterfeit aren’t trained at looking at the counterfeit, they are trained on the genuine, so they can spot the phony...

And the counterfeit can look so much like the genuine that it can fool those that are not knowledgeable of the genuine. I think of the only thing people get from the Messiah of Israel comes from church, those churches are false prophets leading entire congregations to worship a savior that sounds like the Messiah of Israel but everything else is counterfeit... little subtle lies that are incorporated into each denomination that was birthed by their mother churches greco roman latin foundation.

Sunday is not the Sabbath so that is a lie... regardless of why the church explains it, they are lying.. Scripture tells us who the father of all lies is..

And two years ago, I would not have thought about it.. but having a church and culture do our supposing for us can do great damage..
Test all things...

Has the true gospel been preached to the whole world if the church and believers responsible to do it, preaches and worships an ‘in place of’ or a substitute, of no fault of their own, but out of ignorance of what the Word that became flesh, represented?

I watched an old billy graham crusade and even he ended it with ‘be sure to go to church next sunday’...

Could the billy grahams of the world and the popes just be more false prophets accepting Satan’s false premises??

The first reformers believed the papacy played a role in revelation.. my Geneva bible says as much... but what if the daughters are just as much to blame?

Everyone, in at least the industrialized world, is a slave to the pope’s calendar as it is the world’s standard.(may not seem like slavery but everybody’s thoughts and actions revolve around that calendar).
So, because of the calendar, the world worships the pope’s sabbath (or use the popes counterfeit calendar to find their day- even jews and Muslims do this- secular humanists like their weekends too).
And the calendar has all the man made holy days a person can enjoy including December 25 and easter ( but ignores the actual biblical feasts and holy days in scripture)...

Days like memorial day or labor day or fourth of July are all man made holy days found only with the pope’s calendar..

And then add all of this to the greco roman latin named savior that the pope worships,and all her daughters worship- and even most of the world shuts down for that savior’s birthday (except for 24 hour diners and chinese /Japanese restaurants :). )

And I can tell you this, it is really difficult to buy or sell anything on that day, at least in america..

And at some point in this country’s history, December 25 was illegal...so it certainly has changed..

One thng we know- Only our Heavenly Father knows the heart and His grace and His mercy is needed more than we can ever know...

What is a man to think - I have chosen to deny myself, pick up my cross and follow Him daily, trusting only on Him by faith for not just my future, but my present..

Amd that faith, the Holy Spirit has taught me and led me away from who I always thought he was- and drawn me away further from what most every other believer in Him believes

I can believe that I have been led away from the counterfeit and drawn to the genuine Messiah because the entire world is on the opposite side.. and I no longer am conformed by the world..

HalleluYah!
I pray all believers will Have His Spirit work these miracles of healing us of spiritual blindness.

May He bless you more than He has me..


42 posted on 06/01/2014 11:58:33 AM PDT by delchiante
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