Posted on 05/30/2014 3:20:22 AM PDT by Biggirl
For the first time in history, a pope will visit the Rome Olympic Stadium for an international charismatic renewal convocation, the Vatican has announced.This Sunday, Pope Francis will attend and meet members of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal Movement in its 37th National Assembly. The June 1-2 gathering is expected to draw some 50,000 people from over 50 countries.
(Excerpt) Read more at zenit.org ...
Luke 22:19
Matthew 26:26
1 Corinthians 11:24
It is an EO statement.
Note that even “suggesting that the Church of Christ needs renewal” is condemned!
So Catholic charismatics are heretics?
Not necessarily. Most of them are probably just silly and naive.
good answer, it is way of expressing the faith that I don’t care for. They are not heretics otherwise the movement would have been condemned long ago. It is Legitimately sanctioned movement within the Church in communion with the Bishops, but is it not a movement that I would ever affiliate with in terms of prayer meetings like this one.
There are many Gifts of the Holy Spirit, I just prefer to let other people experience and associate with said gifts!!!
Not my cup of tea, but they are Catholic in that they don’t reject Catholic Doctrine, there way of expressing said doctrine does not really interest me at all.
It is, as you say, an EO statement.
It goes quiet well with the childish, feminized liturgies so popular among the happy-clappy dopey-gropey.
So if not all are heretics, and most of them are probably just silly and naive, are any right in claiming they have the gifts such as tongues?
If their gifts include engaging in such buffoonery as spontaneous, emotional outbursts of gibberish, then yes.
If their gifts include engaging in such buffoonery as spontaneous, emotional outbursts of gibberish, then yes.
So those who engage in "such buffoonery as spontaneous, emotional outbursts of gibberish" are those who have the gift of tongues, or what Rome herself sanctions is theoretical .
While i do not sanction all that is claimed as being of the Spirit, your judgement is one more example of the diversity of interpretation and belief in Catholicism.
First, let us be clear: What the charismatics call "talking in tongues" is certainly not what occurred on Pentecost, when the Apostles spoke in languages they had not studied, and people from other lands understood what they were saying. Rather, it is the stringing along of nonsensical utterances. There seems to have been some kind similar phenomenon among a tiny portion of the VERY early Church, the exact nature of which is ambiguous.
Now, there are areas which are core to the faith, outside of which one is not considered a Catholic. Core issues are things such as the triune Godhead, the divinity of Christ, the inspiration of Scripture, etc. There are other areas over which faithful Catholics disagree, and are not pillars of the faith. Non-essential areas are things such as Marian apparitions, charismatic tomfoolery, etc. The Church may tolerate, even encourage these things, but we are not required to believe them.
I suppose I could be more charitable in my attitude towards charismatic hijinks, but it's not going to happen.
1 Corinthians 14
Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues
14 Make love your aim, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, he who prophesies speaks to men for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than he who speaks in tongues, unless some one interprets, so that the church may be edified.
6 Now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how shall I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? 7 If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will any one know what is played? 8 And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle? 9 So with yourselves; if you in a tongue utter speech that is not intelligible, how will any one know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning; 11 but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. 12 So with yourselves; since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church.
13 Therefore, he who speaks in a tongue should pray for the power to interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. 16 Otherwise, if you bless[a] with the spirit, how can any one in the position of an outsider[b] say the “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying? 17 For you may give thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified. 18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind, in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
20 Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; be babes in evil, but in thinking be mature. 21 In the law it is written, “By men of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.” 22 Thus, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church assembles and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.
Orderly Worship
26 What then, brethren? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. 30 If a revelation is made to another sitting by, let the first be silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged; 32 and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. 33 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace.
As in all the churches of the saints, 34 the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35 If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36 What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached?
37 If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. 38 If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39 So, my brethren, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues; 40 but all things should be done decently and in order.
Isn’t this wonderful!
While this Pope fawns over the the Charismatic Catholics, which originated in Protestantism, and the Neocatechumenal Way, which originated in the twisted minds of Kiko and Carmen, he keeps an iron fist hammered down on the traditional Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate and the order of nuns associated with them!
His speeches about mercy are as hollow as Obama’s speeches about health care.
Ludicrous, isn't it? But right in line with the clown nose, beach ball, pinocchio mass, tango mass, hand-kissing of heretics, ostentatious humility, etc.
I attended a charismatic meeting once and there were people screeching, throwing themselves down and writhing on the floor, jabbering and claiming to receive "words" directly from above and announcing them to the assembly. Many of the attendees were behaving as though they were mentally ill. Nauseating experience. Neocats are another group which marches to its own drummer so naturally Francis is drawn to them like a blue jay to a shiny object. The merciless destruction of the FFI is monstrous, but consistent with his modernist agenda.
Another protestantization, uh, I mean “fruit”, of Vatican II.
There seems to have been some kind similar phenomenon among a tiny portion of the VERY early Church, the exact nature of which is ambiguous.
It is true the miracle at Pentecost was speaking in known foreign languages, but 1Cor. 14 clearly describes a phenomenon of speaking in unknown languages, "not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries..." "my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful." (1 Corinthians 14:2,14)
Thus an interpreter was needed if more than the speaker was to be edified, "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." (1 Corinthians 14:28)
And rather than this being "among a tiny portion of the VERY early Church," this is the most descriptive account of a church service in the NT, and Paul, who said he spoke "with tongues more than ye all," (v.18) lists tongues (last) along with other spiritual "sign" gifts ("the manifestation of the Spirit") as being standard issue to Christians, "dividing to every man severally as He will." Which is part of the interdependence of the Body. (1Cor. 12:7-10)
Which would continue until "that which is perfect is come," "which is when the believer no longer sees thru a "glass darkly," but is know even as also he is know. (1Cor. 13:10,12) With that being most evidently being realized when the believer sees Christ Jesus as He is, and is made like Him as regards a glorified body. (1Jn. 3:2)
Though i see much of what is claimed to be the exercise of these gifts today as being counterfeit (most esp. prophecy), Whether one believes this is what is realized today or not, or how much, your own church (unless you are Orthodox: FR says your account is banned or suspended) affirms such are for today, "Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church." http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2003.htm
Thus my questions to you in the face of your simply negative comments;.
In truth, many of those folks are devout Catholics who have a love for the Lord in both the Bible and sacraments.
The Charismatic Renewel movement is simply a working of the Holy Spirt and it helps bring those faithful closer to God and the Church.
Thank-you and God Bless.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.