Skip to comments.Conservative United Methodists say divide over sexuality is `irreconcilable'
Posted on 05/31/2014 12:06:01 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
Will the United Methodist Church soon have to drop the United part of its name?
A group of 80 pastors, including at least two from North Carolina, says the nations second-largest Protestant denomination faces a split because of an inability to resolve long-standing theological disputes about homosexuality and church doctrine.
But more than lamenting the divisions, the pastors indicated there is little reason to think reconciliation or even coexistence could be found. Like a couple heading to divorce court, the pastors cited irreconcilable differences that cant be mended.
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It’s a shame Christianity does not have a governing book that would answer these questions on sexual immorality by providing clear guidance.
The Methodist church of my childhood (My grandmother’s current church) has taken a decidedly conservative turn.
Yeah, they could refer to such a book as “The Bible of Christianity” or, for short...
The United was taken with the Methodist merger with the Evangelical United Brethern in 1968.
Is sexual immorality the only sin that the UMC will tolerate? Or will it give its blessing to stealing, lying, and murder as well?
Since there are some 30,000 different Protestant denominations (Google, Wikipedia) I think that the possibility of Protestant "unity" is gone forever. That ship has sailed...a LONG time ago.
Protestants today might not even know where their name came from. They aren't "protesting" anymore...just splintering ever more. That is a shame. It doesn't make folks feel better about their faith. It might even make them apprehensive.
“.....because of an inability to resolve long-standing theological disputes about homosexuality and church doctrine..”
Christianity has been around since 33AD. That is 1,981 years. For 1,965 of those years, EVERY Christian denomination has unequivocally regarded Homosexual activity as a sin. Long standing, NOT!
Hell, for 1,900 years every Christian Denomination considered artificial contraception to be a sin. So there is little in all of Christendom that is a long standing dispute. Heck the Protestant Reformation is only 600 years old, a mear blip in the Church time line.
The broken sinner, convicted by the Holy Spirit, can always find refuge in the grace of God in Christ! These deceivers are like the adulteress who “eats, wipes her mouth and says, ‘I’ve done nothing wrong’”—Proverbs 30:20
The UMC is a strong supporter of abortion and has been since 1971. So yes, they are OK with child murder. They say it is A-OK!
Who is the implacable foe?
Its a shame Christianity does not have a governing book that would answer these questions on sexual immorality by providing clear guidance.
It’s called the Holy Bible - It is perfectly clear. However, some do not want to obey it.
Divided over sexuality?
Wouldn’t King Solomon say: “Let’s cut the Queer in half”?
All I can say, being part of the “New” Christian denominations, (only 600 years old), READ THE BOOK! You know, the “God Breathed” book.
You don’t even have to use the “New Fangled” Testament, (nearly 2000 years old). You can simply rely on the “Old” Testament, as in, THOUSANDS of years “old”.
There is absolutely no question as to whether homosexuality (married people have sex), is a sin and that by habitually sinning against God you cannot be a “Christian”, period.
Since there is no governing body of Methodism or any Protestantism, would you agree that people interpret the Bible differently?
If so SOME folks might think that they ARE obeying the Word of God as they interpret it. It MIGHT be a VERY different interpretation of those same words by YOUR standards.
Protestants are allowed to interpret the Word of God as they wish. There is no HINT of papal interference and they can establish Jesus as their own personal Savior, via the Bible, and THEIR OWN interpretation of it.
Many are on the way to hell, some will be in heaven.
Every major Protestant denomination has split in two, one side orthodox, the other Situation Ethicist. The United Methodist Church has not been united for a very long time; when it divides, it will be doing de jure what it has been doing de facto for at least two generations.
In my family, we have pretty ferocious disagreements about a great many things, Howell wrote. But we love. We dont divorce. We are a family
It is not about family sir. It is about will you follow and teach the Word of God or not. If half of you want to and the other half does not, then a split has to happen.
Years ago I went to a Methodist Easter service with my MIL. No mention of Jesus or the resurrection in the entire service. The minister (heavy female person) talked as I recall mostly about social justice.
But there is: the Council of Bishops, as guided by the General Conference. UMC churches do not even get to choose their own pastors: they are appointed by each annual conference's bishop.
Catholics are as confused about what they believe as any Protestants (which I will grant are confused). Rome is a “unified” mess! How could it not be with its labyrinthine structure? Or it’s rebellious children deciding for themselves which edict, which council, which “Vatican” they will acknowledge—as if they have any warrant from Rome to do so.
Suck it up and obey Francis, all you rebels of Rome!
SOME protestants think are allowed to interpret the Word of God as they wish just as SOME Catholics think they are allowed to interpret the Word of God.
Holy Spirit will guide in all truth. A Spirit-filled believer does not need a Pope or a Preacher dictating what he should believe.
But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come.
The Council of Bishops is not the governing body of United Methodism.
An individual bishop can do whatever and the Council of Bishops can complain, and that’s about it.
Conservative Methodists. Who knew?
I,for one,can't see the slightest bit of ambiguity in "Thou shalt not commit adultery".
There really does need to be a PCA-like designation for the UMC churches, such as my sister’s home church in North Carolina, that designate that they are NOT the one-world one-church un-Christian UMC any more.
There really is an problem with a good many UMC churches and what MANY UMC members believe.
The schism always arises from the left, who are never happy with doctrines of the faith, unless they fully embrace the political agenda of the left.
So say today, the schism is caused by the left demanding recognition and embrace of homosexual marriage, or whatever issue. No matter the effort at reconciliation, the left will never respect doctrine. So “next week” the schism will be over the divinity of God, whether there are more than one god, or if there isn’t any God at all.
This is because the left, wearing clerical garb or not, neither embraces nor respects religion, or God. They want the agenda of the left, and only the agenda of the left, and paid for out of the organization’s treasury.
So the bottom line is that if you are people of faith, the first time someone chimes in about an agenda of the left item, show them the door. They are not there to embrace the faith, they are there to subvert and destroy it.
I think the Council can defrock a bishop, though I don't know of any time that has occurred.
Full disclosure: I was a Methodist for the bulk of my first my first 35 years. At one point I applied to be a missionary in Japan and was rejected, not because of me but because the council of bishops decided they didn't want anyone going to Japan. I worked for Methodist churches in full-time music ministry for a while, and was halfway to becoming a diaconal minister in the denomination, when I switched first to college teaching, and then to the LCMS Lutheran church, 25 years ago. Spiritually it was the best move at the time, and I certainly would not go back with the UMC in its present condition, unless it was the only Christian option available.
‘Is sexual immorality the only sin that the UMC will tolerate? Or will it give its blessing to stealing, lying, and murder as well?’
There is an article, I forget where, that tells of the theft of I think 3 million bucks to help The Big 0 get elected. The money was gifted to the UMC and only to be used for alcoholic treatment and education, it was set up as a trust strictly for that purpose and that purpose only. The story tells of the hierarchy getting caught when dipping in the trust and the meeting that was held to get their story straight. All members agreed to lie except for one, he was promptly kicked off the board.
I was a member some years ago of a conservative UMC church and when I found out this and other things, I copied them and took them to my pastor to see if they were true. He said they were and asked me not to tell anyone, I didn’t and when he left, forced retirement by the UMC, I left.
The UMC is so far to the left in their polices that if members, especially in the rural south, knew where they stood there would be a mass exodus.
So in answer to your question, they already condone stealing and lying, as well as several perversions. If you look deeply at almost all Protestant churches, you will find the they are corrupt from the inside, they have been taken over by the secular humanists or commies or just plain nutjobs.
Embracing sin as okay and normal is never compatible with Christianity
In these situations I think it’s more that the secularizers are coming to terms with the net effects of their forebears’ heresies, and saying to themselves: You know what, we should get comfortable with and openly proclaim the implications of what this church was really about in the first place.
If some people want to redefine Christ’s teachings so as to allow for blatant sin, then let them go in peace to form their own church. It is better to endure an organizational split than to compromise with sin.
“Its a shame Christianity does not have a governing book that would answer these questions on sexual immorality by providing clear guidance.”
On this topic that would be redundant. There are plenty of passages that are plenty clear on the subject. The problem is not in the clarity of the Bible, it is on the willingness of people to have faith and character to obey what God tells them.
Looking it over again, I’m sorry if that comes off as harsh. But I have to ask some questions about the, uh, dynamics of these church-related disasters... like, why do people “queer” churches, how do they gain a foothold and when is there no turning back... I won’t go on about those things, but IMO a disaster like this usually exposes some aberrant organizational philosophy that was buried deeply in a sect’s belief structures all along; for example some churches have a belief that I myself do not share, in the feasibility of really being a church together when one is pre-committed to a certain subjectivism about religious matters.
The fact that the minister was female would be enough of a reason not to attend IMHO.
Remember, the PCUSA had to rewrite part of their pew Bibles to fit their changes.
The UMC condemns the use of bottled water.
One of my former Sunday School students is involved in the rewriting of the rules about homosexuality in the UMC. He’s a really good kid and plans to become a minister.
But it isn’t a good thing. He’s a lib. He had a lot of problems with my lessons but liked me. I saw him today as a matter of fact.
There is a hint of truth what you say, but there is a difference. There are lots of individual Catholics who don’t know dude dilly squat about their Faith, that is most certainly true. There are bad bishops, nuns and theologians as well, not going to deny that. But there is one clear standard of the faith, so if is easy to see who is going in the wrong direction and at times, sometimes very slowly, Rome eventually cracks down. For example, several women have been excommunicated formally for mimicking ordination to the priestly ministry, which is tantamount to potentially causing a schism because it can falsely lead Catholics, most likely the not so solid ones, or just good folks who are misguided, to think they can receive the sacraments from a woman who is no more a priest than I as a man can give birth to children.
In the end, the be fully Catholic is to be in communion with a Bishop and Diocese that is in communion with the Church and Bishop of Rome. Once you break that sacramental bond of communion, one is in schism.
Protestantism is no anchor at the Institutional level, the Methodist will probably split and now you have 2 different groups from the former United Methodist.
Great idea! They could title it “Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth” and it could be known by the acronym “BIBLE.”
They also ban hymns that get too theological and talk about such uncomfortable things as “atonement.”
How about the unity found with in the true Body of Christ (not withstanding church membership), of those who have been “born of the spirit (John 3)”?
I don’t know this individual but I don’t see how the terms “really good” can apply to someone who wishes to pervert and subvert Biblical teachings about sexuality, marriage and the natural family.
“Really polite” or “really nice” maybe. But “really good?” No.