Brothers of Jesus: Biblical Arguments for Mary’s Virginity

Seton Magazine ^ | Dave Armstrong

[BeadCounter]

“Third, even if Psalm 69:8 applies to Christ, and even if the mother is Mary, the other children need not be biological children. Revelation 12:17 specifically says that the Mother of Christ’s children are “those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.””

http://catholicdefense.blogspot.com/2011/12/does-psalm-698-proves-that-mary-had.html

Revelation 12:17 (KJ21)
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and he went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 12:17 (ASV)

17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:

Revelation 12:17 (AMP)

17 So then the dragon was furious (enraged) at the woman, and he went away to wage war on the remainder of her descendants—[on those] who obey God’s commandments and who have the testimony of Jesus Christ [and adhere to it and bear witness to Him].

Revelation 12:17 (CEB)

17 So the dragon was furious with the woman, and he went off to make war on the rest of her children, on those who keep God’s commandments and hold firmly to the witness of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 (CJB)

17 The dragon was infuriated over the woman and went off to fight the rest of her children, those who obey God’s commands and bear witness to Yeshua

Etc.

http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Revelation%2012:17

[Iscool]

No where is there any Gospel that suggests that Mary ever had sex.

We do know Mary had kids and usually sex is required for that to happen...Plus, there is not a single thing is the scriptures to suggest Mary didn't have sexual relations with her husband...

[BeadCounter]

Bible wasn’t written in English, try again. That’s what the article is discussing.

[definitelynotaliberal]

Oh, my gosh! I am so moved. Thanks for posting this.

[winodog]

Psalm 69 = Jesus telling Israel his words 1,000 years before. I can show you plenty more messianic psalms if you wish but you would probably refuse to open your eyes anyway.

By the way your revelation scripture is talking about Israel the nation,

[SkyDancer]

You have your right to your or your church’s interpretation.

[af_vet_1981]

Since Psalm 69:5 reads: “5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins are not hid from thee” Are you also contending that Jesus sinned?

Yes, that is the problem with using the entire Psalm to refer to Jesus; it would contradict other Scripture and Apostolic doctrine; we can take the verses that other Scripture explicitly attributed to him but have to go no further than that because of this verse.

[D-fendr]

Up to a point, but past that point, you become your own church.

[af_vet_1981]

Come on now...you know you can't read and understand the clear teachings of the Bible without someone to tell you what it means....:)

I mean really, how can thousands of different denominations have different understandings of those clear teachings of the Bible (not to mention all the lone rangers out there who don't really agree with anyone but their spouses, if they have one, once a year) ?

[DungeonMaster]

Mark 6:4 But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”

[DungeonMaster]

Normal married women have sex, it is the RCC who have made up the evervirgin without biblical proof.

[af_vet_1981]

By the way your revelation scripture is talking about Israel the nation,

It is talking about the Virgin of Israel, Miriam, who is the elect of Israel, the very Israel of God. You cannot separate her from her son, God with us, nor from her nation, Israel, nor from the holy catholic apostolic church. If you go to heaven, you'll get used to her.

[BeadCounter]

With the deepest respect my friend:

You are saying Psalm 69:5 does not apply where it speaks of "sins" or "guilt" but then for your purposes use Psalm 69:8. This is simply contradictory. No remarks on one being blind needs to be said when the Psalm you are using is not consistent in what you are trying to say.

"5 O God, thou knowest my foolishness; and my sins (or guilt) are not hid from thee." <---- Doesn't apply, Christ does not sin.

"8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children." <---- Now applies as Christ.

[Iscool]

The key part of that phrase is "And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS -Matthew 1:25 " The clear meaning of this scripture speaks for itself. Anyone that believes that Mary and Joseph somehow remained celibate for years and years have the burden of proof (not the other way around). In fact we are explictly warned not to make up scripture.

Exactly...That is the definitive statement...It couldn't be more clear...

After Jesus was born, he KNEW HER for the first of many times...

[winodog]

Did Christ take on the sins of humanity or not?

[D-fendr]

I wouldn’t call the Incarnation “normal.”

[winodog]

And if that is not Jesus speaking who is it?
It is not David

[winodog]

I did not say it does not apply. Those are Christs words.

[D-fendr]

“And he smoked not ‘til the day he died.”

Guess he had a cig in the morgue.

[Ransomed]

“Normal married women have sex, it is the RCC who have made up the evervirgin without biblical proof.”

Why leave out every single Orthodox Church? I mean come on.

FReegards