Skip to comments.Pope: Half-hearted Catholics aren't really Catholics at all
Posted on 06/06/2014 11:46:00 AM PDT by NYer
VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Those who insist others pray and believe exactly like they do, those who have alternatives to every church teaching and benefactors who use the church as a cover for business connections may call themselves Catholics, but they have one foot out the door, Pope Francis said.
"Many people say they belong to the church," but in reality have "only one foot inside," the pope said June 5 at the morning Mass in the chapel of his residence.
The Church isn’t a rental unit... it’s a home .... Ping!
But half-hearted Protestants are still Protestants ...
That group thinks that their critics are excessively and invalidly "rigid." Anybody know where I can find the Pope's complete remarks?
I'm not sure who has made that contention here.
The Pope just described Cardinals Kasper and Maradiaga, two of his top henchmen, to a "T".
Why doesn't he get rid of them?
I have heard over the years from some fellow Catholics stuff like...
If you don’t attend Mass said in Latin, it’s not a legitimate Mass....
Or...here’s another one...if receive Holy Communion in your hand (as opposed to the tongue) you’re not really a Catholic.
Then there are some scriptural and theological differences as well. I know some Catholics who believe that Mary was ALWAYS a virgin, even though the Bible clearly states that she was married to Joseph and that Jesus had brothers and sisters.
“But half-hearted Protestants are still Protestants ...”
What does that have to do with Francis’ statement?
As soon as the Catholic church kicks out apostates like Nancy Pelosi, you can start throwing stones at others. Until then, STFU.
lol ... i forgot the sarcasm tag ...
How else can we explain the Kennedy's multiple annulments, Pelosi and the other faux catholics receiving the sacrements and all the infiltration by homosexuals and communists.
You nailed it!
I actually was unfortunate enough to have sat through a mass where the priest (a visiting priest) basically told everyone there that day back in 2008 that “social justice” trumped “sanctity of life.”
I sat through that mass — But the next time it came up myself and two dozen other parishioners actually got up and left — Along with our check books.
Two things happened after that, that priest was never invited back and collection basket donations went way down until they started talking about protecting the truly vulnerable and innocent amongst us was far more important than social justice. We will only see how long that lasts.
The following is from the Vatican News Service and is as close as you can come since his homilies are all in Italian.
2014-06-05 LOsservatore Romano
Uniformists, alternativists and advantagists are three buzz words that Pope Francis coined [in Italian] martyring the Italian language a bit as he himself admitted in order to describe the 3 types of Christians who create divisions in the Church. The Pope spoke of this in his homily during Holy Mass on Thursday, 5 June, wherein he also reflected upon the days reading from the Gospel of John (17:20-26).
With the Gospel as his starting point, the Holy Father paused on the image of Jesus in prayer: he prays for his disciples; he prays for all those who will be coming, coming to hear the preaching of the Apostles; he prays for the Church. And what does the Lord ask of the Father?, the Pope asked himself. The response was, the unity of the Church. That the Church may be one, that there be no divisions, that there be no battles. For this, he remarked, the Lords prayer is essential, because [creating] unity in the Church isnt easy . He then referred to the many who claim to be in the Church, but have only one foot inside, while the rest remains outside.
For these folks explained Pope Francis the Church isnt really their home. This means those people who live like renters a little here, a little there. Actually there are some groups who rent the Church, but dont consider her their home.
Among them, the Bishop of Rome identified 3 precise categories, starting with those who want everyone to be equals in the Church: the uniformists, whose manner is to uniformize everything: everyone as equals. These people have been present from the very beginning, that is, from when the Holy Spirit willed that the pagans be allowed to enter the Church, recalled the Pope, referring to the many who demanded that pagans become Hebrews before they could join the Church. This shows that uniformity goes hand in hand with rigidity; and it was not without reason that Pope Francis described these Christians as rigid, because they dont have the freedom that the Holy Spirit bestows. And they confuse what Jesus preached in the Gospel [with] their doctrine of equality, although Jesus never wanted his Church to be rigid. Therefore, because of their attitude, they dont enter the Church. They call themselves Christians, they call themselves Catholics, but their rigid attitude distances them from the Church.
Regarding the second group, the alternativists, the Pope categorized them among those who think, Ill enter the Church, but with this idea, with this ideology. They propose conditions and their membership in the Church is thereby partial. They too have one foot outside the Church; theyre renting the Church but dont really experience it; and they too have been present from the very outset of evangelical preaching, as testified by the agnostics, whom the Apostle John harshly lambasted: We are... yes, yes... we are Catholics, but with these ideas. They seek an alternative, because they dont share the common experience of the Church.
Finally, the third group includes those who look for advantages. They go to Church but for personal advantage, and wind up conducting business in the Church. These are the Swindlers, who have also been around since the very start such as Simon the magician, Anania e Saffira, who took advantage of the Church for their own profit. Modernizing the discourse, Pope Francis denounced those characters of the type often found in community or diocesan parishes, and in religious congregations, disguising themselves as benefactors of the Church. Weve seen many of them, he said, essentially parading about as benefactors and in the end, under the table, running their scams. They too, obviously, dont believe sense the Church as mother.
But Christs message is quite different: to all these types, the Pontiff continued, Jesus says that the Church isnt rigid, its free! In the Church there are many charisms, theres great diversity in people and in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Jesus says: in the Church you must give your heart to the Gospel, to what the Lord has taught, and never have an alternative for yourself! The Lord tells us: if you want to enter the Church, do so for love, to give all, all your heart and not for doing business for your benefit. Indeed, the Church is not a house for rent for all those who want to do as they please; on the contrary, it is a home to live in.
And to those who object that its not easy, to keep both feet in the Church, because there are so many temptations, the Romes bishop recalled that he who creates unity in the Church, unity in the diversity, in the freedom, in the generosity which is the Holy Spirit, whose specific duty is to actually create harmony in the Church. Because unity in the Church is harmony. Everyone he added with a joke were different, were not equal, thank God, otherwise it would be hell! But we are all called to be docile to the Holy Spirit. And this is exactly the virtue that will save us from being rigid, from being alternativists and from being advantagists or swindlers in the Church: docility to the Holy Spirit, he who builds the Church.
And this docility which transforms the Church from a house for rent into a house in which everyone feels at home. Im at home explained the Pope because the Holy Spirit gives me this grace. He then invited the request during mass for the grace of unity in the Church: to be brothers and sisters in unity, feeling right at home. Unity in the diversity of everyone but free diversity, without imposing conditions. May the Lord send us the Holy Spirit was Pope Francis closing invocation and create this harmony in our communities, parishes, dioceses, movements, so that, as said by a father of the Church: The Spirit, he himself is harmony.
Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning "cousin," speakers of those languages could use either the word for "brother" or a circumlocution, such as "the son of my uncle." But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews often used "brother." These brothers are never once called the children of Mary, although Jesus himself is (John 2:1; Acts 1:14).
Mary was and remained a virgin. See the Protoevangelium of James.
As a person who regularly attends Mass in the vernacular, I have no objection to those who attend Mass said in Latin.
As a person who regularly receives Holy Communion in the hand, I have no objection to those who receive it on the tongue.
By this logic we could claim that Aaron was not really Moses’s brother, he was a cousin. Same with Cain and Abel.
Protesrants were not mentioned so why do you bring it up? It is about Catholics.
I pray that God forgives me and finds me worthy to somehow join him but the RC isn't really anything special to me other than a place where I am familiar with the ceremony but have become disillusioned by what I perceive as the changes in the church and doctrine.When you were a Catholic, and not fallen away, did you believe the Eucharist was the Body of Christ? If so, why would you leave Him at the altar? We were told (by a couple of saintly priests) that if the priest says the right words at the Consecration, the Eucharist is Real. And that we weren't supposed to take it upon ourselves to think any differently. So if you wish for God to forgive you, why not partake in His Son; a gift [to you from Him] beyond all measure.
Perhaps they can be called “CINOs” — Christians in name only?
Good thing there are no FRoman Catholics who do this! </sarc>
“Pope: Half-hearted Catholics aren’t really Catholics at all”
Sorry el pepe. I’ve been assured by Roman Catholics on FR that every catholic, as long as they go through the ritual baptism and confirmation are always indelibly roman catholic.
He is new at the whole pope thingy.
Just haters chiming in.
It is not a question of what I believe. It is a question of what is written. May I refer to Mark 3:31
“Then Jesus’ mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and the told him, Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”
“Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning “cousin,” speakers of those languages could use either the word for “brother” or a circumlocution, such as “the son of my uncle.” “
But Greek does have words for brother, cousin, uncle and aunt. God chose to inspire the use of the Greek word for brothers. Take it up with Him.
“Mary was and remained a virgin. “
No Biblical evidence that this was true.
Well, thank you. That’s nice. But the fact is that Pope Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum (2007) wouldn’t have been necessary but for the fact that most of the bishops worldwide were not supportive of those who preferred the TLM. And the resistance that it received and continues to receives shows which side has the upper hand in this debate. The demand for uniformity is not coming from the supporters of Summorum Pontificum but rather its opponents. And I’m not talking about lay people like you, but rather people with actual power over these issues (i.e., modernist bishops).
No Biblical evidence that Mary had any other children (nobody else is called a son or daughter of Mary), and positive evidence that she didn't (Jesus on the cross giving her to John, which would have been a sin if she had any other living children).
Exactly. The Bible only mentions Mary being a virgin at the time of Jesus’s conception. That’s it. Period.
And I also know some Catholics who also think that Mary herself was conceived of an immaculate conception, although there is no mention of this anywhere in the Bible that I can find.
When will protestants start telling pro-homo “marriage” and baby killer Obummer to quit calling himself a protestant?
Too bad the Pope doesn’t specifically denounce American phony pols who claim to be Catholic yet support abortion (over 40 million since Roe V Wade) and homo marriages. Yet they’ll come and kiss his ring for publicity and receive the Holy Eucharist.
I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I believe that he gave his life for my sins and that he acted as an example of faith for all of us. I believe that I can never and in any way "earn" my way to heaven but only by his looking at my lying sinful evil soul have mercy on me and just maybe, maybe get into the kingdom of heaven.
I would never put down or belittle anyone that finds comfort in the current church. I, as a prideful hypocrite, will only eat so much sh#t in the form of the Catholic heirarchy and know that I should just walk away and I have done it. What is odd is that my kids have gone to church with me and are thinking of converting to Catholocism. I encourage them to follow their inner voice that draws them to the church. God bless them and I hope that they and you all find peace, I however am jaded, cynical, prideful and in spite of my mask not a very good or nice person except to my family.
I pray that I haven't burned my bridge to the Lord by leaving the church but I really am lazy and find fighting the urge to tell the priest to just speak his word, give me some guidance and pray for my sould instead of carrying on a musical production and spouting off about political cr#p make it hard for me to go.
I've gone back every several months but the same sense of just disappointment and unease fill me. It's a "me" problem and not the church's problem. I'm the one that has to change....the church is what it is. I can not demand it change anymore than I can stand at a shoreline and yell at the waves for crashing into the beach.
Any Catholic who denies Church dogma has aposostasized.
That’s a second Marian dogma you have denied/questioned.
You sound just like the type of person the Pope was talking about in the above article.
Nearly all we know about Mary comes from the New Testament. I’ll stick with that if it’s OK with you.
We shouldn’t be making things up.
You could also ask “if Yashua spoke Aramaic why is the service in Latin?”
Between your denial of Catholic Church dogma and your screen name, you sound just like Bowe Bergdahl.
Do you think Popes make things up when they proclaim dogmas of the Catholic Church?
Popes are human, and therefore sinners and subject to error just like the rest of us mere mortals.
The Church has the right to make up its own rules, rituals, dogmas, and traditions.
But NO Church has the right to rewrite history or to rewrite the Bible IMHO.
Yet, you seem to reserve the right to deny the above mentioned dogmas.
Unless you’re Luther and then you can toss out 7 books of the Old Testament and add words to scripture (only in Romans 3:20; Romans 4:15, alone in Romans 3:28). Also, the early Protestants, including Luther believed in the perpetual virginity of Mary. “Christ . . . was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him . . . I am inclined to agree with those who declare that ‘brothers’ really mean ‘cousins’ here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers.”
thank you for your comments. You’ve thrown out some good seeds on this rocky soil. You never know, maybe that’s my way back. God bless you.
"Many people say they belong to the church," but in reality have "only one foot inside," the pope said June 5 at the morning Mass in the chapel of his residence.
"For these people, the church is not home," but is a place they use as a rental property, he said, according to Vatican Radio.
And boy howdy let me tell you, if there's anything that Catholics know how to do well, it's how to live somewhere rent-free.
I don't know that anyone here belongs to his church, or if he still does, but he isn't meeting with his Pope and taking Communion at the Vatican like famous pro-abortion leaders, a denomination that you probably are a member of.
Dick, I’ve sat through some really awful “Church of Nice” celebrations so I know where you’re coming from. Homilies that focus on “social justice” and rock-and-roll guitar masses that make me cringe. However, in instances like these, I try to remember why I am there: to praise and glorify God, ask for forgiveness and the grace to sin no more, to thank him for the incredible gifts I have received, and, most importantly, to receive our Lord and Savior in the Holy Eucharist.
I think the other Freeper’s advice is very good. Go and spend time with our Lord in Eucharistic Adoration. I believe that is when my faith and love for the church and all its treasures began to deepen. I haven’t been in a while and I know I miss it. God bless. I will pray for you and your reconversion.
“If you decide those who don’t match your beliefs personally are outside the Catholic church, you’re outside the Catholic church.”
OK, he’s the Pope, so it’s a little different when he says something like that. After all, he’s the one who is supposed to establish doctrine. But it’s still a little problematic given he’s not establishing doctrine, but teaching about attitudes.