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Christians expelled from site of the Last Supper
Catholic Culture ^ | June 10, 2014

Posted on 06/10/2014 3:24:12 PM PDT by NYer

Orthodox Jewish activists drove Christian pilgrims out of the Cenacle, the “upper room” revered as the site of the Last Supper, on June 9.

About 30 militants, including one member of the Israeli parliament, disrupted a prayer service being held by Christians. The building, which is also revered by Jews as the site of King David’s tomb, is owned by the Israeli government, and Christian services are ordinarily not permitted there.

Ownership of the building in Jerusalem has become a contentious issue in Israeli politics. Pope Francis was granted permission to celebrate Mass in the Cenacle, despite protests from some Orthodox Jews. Even before the papal visit, rumors had circulated in Jerusalem that the government of Israel was prepared to cede control of the building to the Vatican. Israeli government officials denied those rumors.

The building that houses the Cenacle and the tomb of David was once controlled by the Franciscan Custody of the Holy Land. The Ottoman Empire evicted the Franciscans, and transformed the building into a mosque. The Franciscan Custody still hopes to regain at least administrative control of the Cenacle, as part of a long-overdue diplomatic accord between Israel and the Holy See, establishing the legal rights of the Church in the Holy Land.

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TOPICS: Catholic; History; Judaism; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: holyland

Clergymen attend a mass celebrated by Pope Francis (C) at the site known as the Cenacle, or Upper Room, bringing into sharp focus a decades-long debate over prayer rites at the site where Christians believe Jesus had his Last Supper on May 26, 2014 in Jerusalem's Old City. (AFP Photo / Pool / Jack Guez)

Visitors' Book burned at Jerusalem's Dormition Abbey after Pope Mass

1 posted on 06/10/2014 3:24:12 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 06/10/2014 3:24:28 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

lol

I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty that neither the last supper nor king david have anything to do with that spot.

I can’t believe people actually fall for this kind of tripe.


3 posted on 06/10/2014 3:30:33 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: NYer
I hope Netanyahu will swiftly denounce the actions of this group and apologize to Christians, but after I found out the "conservative" Israeli government is providing "free" abortions for all Israeli women, my opinion of them has gone downhill.

I can't imagine the reverse happening, and Jewish pilgrims being kicked out of Rome for simpy trying to have a prayer service at a historical Christian location.

Any of the "we must stand with Israel 100% of the time" crowd want to weigh in on this?

4 posted on 06/10/2014 3:31:23 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

“I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty that neither the last supper nor king david have anything to do with that spot.”

No, you can’t.


5 posted on 06/10/2014 3:35:15 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: TexasFreeper2009

Certainly not both, given the last supper was in a house of an observant Jew who would not have built his house in a graveyard.


6 posted on 06/10/2014 3:36:07 PM PDT by TheThirdRuffian (RINOS like Romney, McCain, Christie are sure losers. No more!)
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To: vladimir998

oh! then I got a piece of the cross to sell you!


7 posted on 06/10/2014 3:38:00 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: BillyBoy

Yes. Stop believing stuff out of the “Christian” Left.

The other side of this is the matter of the Vatican taking over Jewish holy sites.


8 posted on 06/10/2014 3:40:35 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: NYer

Not a Catholic service, as far as I can see, but a group of Christian pilgrims who prayed while visiting the upper room.

Also, it’s worth reading the article because the whole business is more complicated than it appears on the surface. The argument is more between the Ultra Orthodox Jews and the Israeli government than it is with the Christians.

On the other hand, I stick to my first reaction on seeing the headline, that this is dumb behavior on the part of the Jewish protestors. They are stirring up trouble with people who want to be their friends, and who are doing them no harm. Maybe they should worry a bit more about the Arab Palestinians.


9 posted on 06/10/2014 3:42:18 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: TexasFreeper2009; vladimir998
I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty.

I think that would be an assurance, not a guarantee.

10 posted on 06/10/2014 3:44:14 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

“oh! then I got a piece of the cross to sell you!’

Hey I’ve better than that. I have the lace to the sandal’s Jesus worn on the Via Dela Rosa, 4 teeth of St. Arbuthnot the Goofy, a brick from the home of Simon the Zelot and the coin that was found in the mouth of the fish.

My great, great, great, great, great 27 generations ago grandfather brought them back from Constantinople after the 4th Crusade where he personally slew 20 or 30 of those heretical Greek Orthodox monks who were hoarding them


11 posted on 06/10/2014 3:46:12 PM PDT by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: NYer
as part of a long-overdue diplomatic accord between Israel and the Holy See,

The first 3.5 years of which will go great...but watch out for the last 3.5 years of the "accord"...

12 posted on 06/10/2014 3:55:29 PM PDT by dware (3 prohibited topics in mixed company: politics, religion and operating systems...)
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To: Olog-hai

So you approve of this then?


13 posted on 06/10/2014 4:12:03 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Pope Calvin the 1st, defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades)
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To: TexasFreeper2009; vladimir998
oh! then I got a piece of the cross to sell you!

Yeah, me too! ; )


14 posted on 06/10/2014 4:15:11 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
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To: NYer

It is said that the original cenacle was the only building spared in Jerusalem during its destruction by Rome in 70AD.

This did not happen intentionally but accidentally.


15 posted on 06/10/2014 4:25:21 PM PDT by 353FMG
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To: Olog-hai

So Christians merely having a prayer service at a spot sacred to Christians constitutes “taking over” a Jewish holy site in your opinion?


16 posted on 06/10/2014 4:41:14 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: Olog-hai
>> Stop believing stuff out of the “Christian” Left. <<

The article is by Catholic World News, not "Rev." Jesse Jackson.

But I suppose you'll argue that Catholic World News counts as the "Christian left" too.

17 posted on 06/10/2014 4:45:50 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: BillyBoy

Nobody believed that Fox News could go as far left as it did, until it happened.

And that attitude towards Israel you displayed only comes from the left.


18 posted on 06/10/2014 4:59:44 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Really, the “left” is mad that Israel is providing free abortions to all its citizens? Could have fooled me. There’s a reason why the liberal media here hasn’t given it any coverage here.


19 posted on 06/10/2014 5:03:28 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

Approve of what? Getting the other side of the story?

Nobody’s denying that there are problematic so-called “ultra-Orthodox” minorities in Israel, who are even anti-Zionist despite living in Israel. But they aren’t being let run riot.


20 posted on 06/10/2014 5:03:47 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: BillyBoy
Yes, there are left-wing Catholics that hide behind that issue and others to advance the agenda of taking land from Israel.

Do you approve of Jews being kept out of King David’s Tomb by Israeli police?
21 posted on 06/10/2014 5:08:52 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
For the record, I totally disagree with the "two state solution" and Israel having to give up any of their existing land for a "Palestinian state" or that Israel needs to stop building "settlements" in the West Bank because it hurts the Muslims feelings. I've vocally opposed any person who takes that position, whether they're on the left or on "our side" like Condi Rice.

When it comes to praying, if the site is sacred to BOTH religions, I see no problem why they can't share it and provide the simply courtesy of allowing the other faith to use it at specific times for prayers. In fact, Christians already do this in Israel when a Chrisitan holy site is being used by numerous Christian denominations. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre is built over the spot where Jesus was crusified and today it is SHARED by no less than SIX different Christian denominations. If the Catholic Church were to proclaim they had exclusive right to use the site 100% of the time and nobody else is allowed to pray and hold services there, they'd be dead wrong. The reverse is also true: if the Greek Orthodox Church were to proclaim they had exclusive right to use the site 100% of the time and nobody else is allowed to pray there, THEY'D be dead wrong.

If the Vatican is claiming Jews should never be allowed to pray at King David's tomb (which they are NOT claiming), they'd be absolutely wrong.

Unfortunately, the reverse does seem to be true: some Orthodox Jews think Christians should not be allowed to pray at the site of the Last Supper. Fortunately, it appears most Jews and the Israel government DO NOT agree with this group of Orthodox Jews.

If you agree with them about kicking Christians out of the room where the Last Supper was held, and yet profess to be Christian, I'd suggest you're in the wrong religion.

22 posted on 06/10/2014 5:22:37 PM PDT by BillyBoy (Looking at the weather lately, I could really use some 'global warming' right now!)
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To: BillyBoy

No, I don’t agree with either group being kicked out.


23 posted on 06/10/2014 5:26:23 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: NYer

I guess they’ll have to go to bed without dinner...


24 posted on 06/10/2014 5:31:17 PM PDT by BlueDragon (the wicked flee when none pursueth, but the righteous...are as bold as a lion)
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To: Olog-hai
Sounds like they are only being kempt out during the mass, not all the time. This is not suprising, given that the people featured in the article have no good purpose for being there at that time and are only seeking to stir up trouble of some kind.

From the article...

"It should be noted that the institution of regular Catholic prayers at the site constitute a severe breach of Jewish prayer rights."

How so?

"Rabbi Tal reports that during the Mass service on Sunday, incense was burned, the scent of which spread throughout the Compound, engulfing the Tomb of King David on the ground floor as well. Christian visitors brought massive crosses to the prayers, and placed them in the "Room of the Last Supper" for the service. Additional testimony was given to Arutz Sheva by Rabbi Yaakov Sevilia, an activist for King David's Tomb. Rabbi Sevilia reported that lit candles were placed in the floor of the room in the shape of a cross."

In short, deal with it. None are permanent or even semi-permanant changes. Sounds like this Rabbi is straining to come up with things to complain about.

""There's a great pain here; it is hard to describe the depth of our frustration over the reality in which right above the Tomb of King David - David who every Jew is connected to and who the full redemption is dependent upon - they let idol-worship happen, which is more severe than murder and sexual indecency,""

Tell me again why I'm supposed to feel any sympathy for this guy, who appears to feel quite at liberty to be as insulting as possible. The long and short of it is that these sites are holy to Christians as well as Jews, and the segment of Israeli society that this Rabbi represents hates Christianity. They want access to these sites reserved exclusively for Jews.

"King refused to welcome him unless he would "bring in his suitcase the treasures of the Jewish people that were stolen by his predecessors,""

An angry kook with a conspiracy theory.

25 posted on 06/10/2014 5:41:24 PM PDT by Wyrd bi ful ard (Pope Calvin the 1st, defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades)
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To: Wyrd bið ful aræd

That certainly is a broad brush. We will see in the future whether or not this is a singular incident; any genuine kooks will be swept out of the door either way.


26 posted on 06/10/2014 5:45:44 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: vladimir998
“I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty that neither the last supper nor king david have anything to do with that spot.” No, you can’t.

the chance that that very room, survived intact for over 2,000 years is virtually nil...

27 posted on 06/10/2014 5:56:10 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: TexasFreeper2009
I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty that neither the last supper nor king david have anything to do with that spot.

How can anyone be certain where the Last Supper took place? None of the Gospels provide a street address for the Upper Room. Jerusalem also underwent extensive urban redevelopment by the Romans in AD 70, the Persians in 615, the Arabs in 637, the Crusaders in 1099, and the Turks in 1187 and 1244.

28 posted on 06/10/2014 6:05:55 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: NYer

“Elder brothers in the faith”, my aspe.


29 posted on 06/10/2014 6:16:02 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: terycarl

“the chance that that very room, survived intact for over 2,000 years is virtually nil...”

No kidding. It’s not the “room” but the “spot” that was questioned. The room dates back only to the Middle Ages. The spot has been observed as the place of the Last Supper for longer than that. Buildings on the site have been erected and destroyed many times over the centuries. But thanks for participating.


30 posted on 06/10/2014 6:20:12 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: NYer

I was in that room last year. Pretty cool.


31 posted on 06/10/2014 6:20:59 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Anything is possible, if you don't know what you're talking about.)
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To: vladimir998
“I can guarantee you with near 100% certainty that neither the last supper nor king david have anything to do with that spot.”

No, you can’t.

When I was there our guide said it was a replica built in the 12th century.
32 posted on 06/10/2014 6:25:36 PM PDT by Old Yeller (Anything is possible, if you don't know what you're talking about.)
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To: Old Yeller

Please learn to read. “Spot” is different than “room”. The room only dates back to the Middle Ages. The spot - as the spot of the Last Supper - dates back much longer. There’s a difference. I am amazed at how low the reading comprehension of many people at FR really is.


33 posted on 06/10/2014 6:37:25 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: NYer
"at the site where Christians believe Jesus had his Last Supper on May 26, 2014"

This is why I hate the major media.

34 posted on 06/10/2014 6:39:41 PM PDT by Colonel_Flagg ("Compromise" means you've already decided you lost.)
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To: Fiji Hill

exactly.


35 posted on 06/11/2014 6:10:09 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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