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What Did the Imam Really Say? [At the Vatican with the Pope]
Fr. Z/ WDTPRS ^ | 06/13/14 | Fr. Z

Posted on 06/13/2014 5:46:16 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

What Did the Imam Really Say?

Posted on by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

You probably know that, during the prayer for peace event in the garden’s behind St. Peter’s basilica, held by Pope Francis with the leaders of Israel, Palestinians and also the Ecumenical Patriarch, one of the invited guests, an Imam, reportedly prayed for Allah to grant victory over infidels.

“No, he didn’t!”, say some.  ”Yes, he did!”, say others.

I read at Gates of Vienna:

In his own words in the end he asked god to assist those in the state of weakness. He said intasar al mustaDaafin fil ArD ya rab al alamin wa salam ala mursalin… , which means assist people in the state of weakness in the land oh Lord of the worlds and peace be upon messengers.

I searched the phrase “intasar al mustaDaafin” or “assist people in the state of weakness” and found that Muslim Arabs use it often in their prayer for either Palestinians or Mujahidin who are fighting against “oppressors”. Possibly the Imam’s intention was precisely that, but he did not literally ask Allah to assist Muslims over non-believers.

However, a commentator says:

Without a shadow of a doubt [that] means make us VICTORIOUS over the Kaferin or unbelievers or deniers! Please don’t try to create clouds and doubts where there are non. It is not ambiguous at all.

Here is the translation from quran.com: “You are our protector, so give us victory over the disbelieving people.” sura 2 aya 286

It is asking Allah to give the Muslims victory in WARS that they had against pagan Arabs. This is the context.

There is a video of the Imam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcyErI-4bSI

Some are saying that the controversial line was cut from the video.  I dunno.

However, again, a commentator wrote:

I do understand Quranic Arabic very well. I also know Quran itself rather well. I am an ex- muslim. This link that you have posted is cut! The full recitation of Quran by this imam that I watched on Al Arabiya chanal two days ago had his recitation till the last verses and without a shadow of a doubt he recited the 2nd sura Al Bagharah’s last few verses till the very end where he does recite ” And pardon us and forgive us and have mercy on us, you are our guardian, so make us victorious over the tribe of disbelievers ( or deniers as the word Kafir really means)”.

Now the question is who chopped this link to take out the controversial part out of it. It is cut literally in the middle of the verse where the controversial part starts and jumps to the imam’s prayer in his own words which are not controvercial. [I think around 2:24] You can recognize the end of recitation and beginning of his own prayer by the fact that he stopped singing and start speaking normally. If you pay attention you will notice that the place was cut. It is noticeable. They kept his recitation until the end of the of ” forgive us and have mercy on us.” But the last two sentences ” you are our guardian, so grant us victory over unbelievers” was neatly in very stalinesque fashion airbrushed out! Cunning bastards! That is why your Russian translator didn’t hear anything controversial. But he can go check his Quran and see that up till the last two sentences which are missing everything before it is sura2 last verses. Now you want to tell me he just left out the last half verse from his recitation?! Of course not! They are counting on people’s ignorance of Arabic and quraniccontent

I don’t know Arabic.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Islam; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: imam; imamgate; infidels; pope; popefrancis; romancatholicism

1 posted on 06/13/2014 5:46:16 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

It may be Muslim’s one and only chance to give the Vatican over to themselves, why wouldn’t he pray the prayer that gives them that?


2 posted on 06/13/2014 5:48:15 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

The bigger problem is that he was hosting a joint prayer with infidels in the first place, which is absolutely condemned by scripture. The Muzzie asking God to help him beat the guys next to him is just the icing on the cake.


3 posted on 06/13/2014 5:49:30 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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Council of Vienna on Muslims

07/06/14 12:19
namaaz_muslims_prayer_mosque
From the Council of Vienne, under Pope Clement V: Canon [25]:

"It is an insult to the holy name and a disgrace to the Christian faith that in certain parts of the world subject to Christian princes where Saracens live, sometimes apart, sometimes intermingled with Christians, the Saracen priests commonly called Zabazala, in their temples or mosques, in which the Saracens meet to adore the infidel Mahomet, loudly invoke and extol his name each day at certain hours from a high place, in the hearing of both Christians and Saracens and there make public declarations in his honour. There is a place, moreover, where once was buried a certain Saracen whom other Saracens venerate as a saint. A great number of Saracens flock there quite openly from far and near. This brings disrepute on our faith and gives great scandal to the faithful. These practices cannot be tolerated any further without displeasing the divine majesty. We therefore, with the sacred council's approval, strictly forbid such practices henceforth in Christian lands. We enjoin on catholic princes, one and all, who hold sovereignty over the said Saracens and in whose territory these practices occur, and we lay on them a pressing obligation under the divine judgment that, as true Catholics and zealous for the Christian faith, they give consideration to the disgrace heaped on both them and other Christians. They are to remove this offence altogether from their territories and take care that their subjects remove it, so that they may thereby attain the reward of eternal happiness. They are to forbid expressly the public invocation of the sacrilegious name of Mahomet. They shall also forbid anyone in their dominions to attempt in future the said pilgrimage or in any way give countenance to it. Those who presume to act otherwise are to be so chastised by the princes for their irreverence, that others may be deterred from such boldness."
- Source: http://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/vienne.htm

4 posted on 06/13/2014 5:50:06 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Did this Imam go back to his car and blow himself up in honor of his moon god and pedophile leader Mohammad or what?
5 posted on 06/13/2014 5:52:36 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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Who Edited the Tape?

Posted on June 13, 2014 by

That’s what everyone wanted to know about the notorious 18½-minute gap in Richard Nixon’s Watergate tape, for which Rosemary Woods eventually took the fall.

Now it appears that something similar happened with the Vatican’s tape of the interfaith prayers-for-peace from last Sunday, giving us even more reason to dub this controversy “Imamgate”.

As we reported in last night’s post about the imam’s prayer at the Vatican, there seems to be nothing controversial in the chanted Arabic in the prayer and that spoken in his subsequent remarks. However, a reader and commenter named ritamalik — who is a former Muslim and understands Arabic — tells us that a portion of the video has been edited out, and the omitted section included the verse asking Allah to grant victory over the infidels.

The explanation below is adapted from two separate comments by ritamalik on last night’s post:

You were accurate! Don’t blame yourself! These bastards have cut out the controversial last half-verse from imam’s recitation in the clip. What they have done here is pure and simple censorship, deception and rewriting of history. Pay attention to the clip. They cut his recitation in the middle of the last verse!

I do understand Quranic Arabic very well. I also know Quran itself rather well. I am an ex-Muslim. This link that you have posted was cut! The full recitation from the Quran by this imam that I watched on the Al Arabiya channel two days ago had his recitation up until the final verses, and without a shadow of a doubt he recited the second sura Al Bagharah’s last few verses till the very end where he did say, “and pardon us and forgive us and have mercy on us, you are our guardian, so make us victorious over the tribe of disbelievers [or ‘deniers’, as the word kafir really means]”.

Now the question is: who chopped this video to take out the controversial part out of it? It is cut literally in the middle of the verse where the controversial part starts, and jumps to the imam’s prayer in his own words, which are not controversial. You can recognize the end of recitation and beginning of his own prayer by the fact that he stopped singing and start speaking normally. If you pay attention you will notice the place where it was cut. It is noticeable.

They kept his recitation until the end of the of “forgive us and have mercy on us.” But the last two clauses — “you are our guardian, so grant us victory over unbelievers” was neatly and in very Stalinesque fashion airbrushed out! Cunning bastards!


That is why your Russian translator didn’t hear anything controversial. But he can go check his Quran and see that up till the last two clauses which are missing, everything before it is the final verses of sura 2. Now you want to tell me he just left out the last half verse from his recitation?! Of course not! Who recites Quran while reciting a verse only half way through?!

They are counting on people’s ignorance of Arabic and Quranic content. They want to throw us off track and confuse us. Your original report was 100% correct! You have nothing to correct. Only now you can also report that these bastards have censored the original footage to save themselves from the embarrassment of being mocked and outwitted by an imam. That’s all! Don’t fall for it.

And the fact that they had to censor the original footage shows that despite their original denials they recognized the damage and the legitimacy of those reports which pointed it out!

The big question is: Who edited the tape?

It had to have been done by someone in the Vatican, or by someone employed by the Vatican. So the Imamgate scandal has just become even more scandalous.

To recap:

1.   The Pope invited an imam to the Vatican to say prayers at an interfaith event.
2.   Departing from a pre-released script, the imam prayed in Arabic for Allah to grant victory over the unbelievers.
3.   The Vatican denied that the imam said anything of that nature.
4.   The Vatican altered a video of the event to remove any evidence of the damning clause.
 

So what comes next? What will #5 be? Stay tuned.

Also: if anyone can find an uncut version of the Arabic part of the video, please send us the URL.

Previous posts about Imamgate — The Arabic prayer at the Vatican, June 8 2014:

2014   Jun   11   The Vatican and Islamic Prayer
        12   Taqiyya, Vatican-Style
        12   What Did the Imam Really Say at the Vatican?

6 posted on 06/13/2014 5:54:36 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: A CA Guy

No, he wet back to his car an laughed his arse off.


7 posted on 06/13/2014 5:55:04 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Interesting!


8 posted on 06/13/2014 5:55:59 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: doc1019
There is no laughing with Islam and Mohammad (piss be upon his pagan pedophile moon god head).
9 posted on 06/13/2014 5:56:33 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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Pope Francis Says 99% Of Vatican Opposed Palestine-Israel Prayer Meeting

Almost all Vatican officials initially opposed Pope Francis' idea of bringing the Israeli and Palestinian presidents together for a prayer summit, he said in an interview published Friday...

10 posted on 06/13/2014 5:56:50 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
The photographer is in the wrong position and pointing his camera in the wrong direction ... that is the reality of islam.
11 posted on 06/13/2014 5:57:34 PM PDT by Ken522
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To: A CA Guy

LOL! I think, under the circumstances, this Imam would have made an exception. Just say’n


12 posted on 06/13/2014 5:59:14 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: doc1019

There will be a big war over Islam probably in our lifetime.


13 posted on 06/13/2014 6:00:56 PM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Brian Kopp DPM.


14 posted on 06/13/2014 6:02:48 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Thank you, Brian, for bringing this to our attention.

If there is any Catholic over the age of twelve who believes that a Pope and an Imam can be chummy, without dire consequences, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell him.

Why do these people think we fought the Crusades?


15 posted on 06/13/2014 6:09:35 PM PDT by miserare (2014--The Year We Fight Back!)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

This is just frightening.

What do you make of this?


16 posted on 06/13/2014 7:16:42 PM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: Bigg Red

The Pope is dangerously naive. At best.


17 posted on 06/13/2014 7:30:15 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

To: Brian Kopp DPM
Did the Christian representatives have anything in their prayers along the lines of, "Open the eyes of the world, dear Lord, so they may see your salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.", or were they generic, ecumenical types?

The iman's prayer, itself, I'm not worried about because there IS no Allah and Islam is a false religion, but it would be worrisome if he actually showed more boldness in proclaiming his faith than the Christians did - in the Vatican.

19 posted on 06/13/2014 8:32:11 PM PDT by boatbums (Proud member of the Free Republic Bible Thumpers Brigade.)
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To: boatbums

The texts of all the prayers (excepting the iman’s was posted on FR.

Sorry you missed it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3164805/posts


20 posted on 06/13/2014 8:47:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Brian Kopp DPM; Gamecock
IB4TPIWMA
21 posted on 06/13/2014 8:59:59 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Salvation
That thread doesn't contain the actual prayers, Salvation. That's why I asked. DO you have some other source for the transcript of the actual prayers and words spoken by the Catholic and Orthodox representatives?
22 posted on 06/14/2014 12:22:54 AM PDT by boatbums (Proud member of the Free Republic Bible Thumpers Brigade.)
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To: boatbums; Salvation; Alex Murphy
If we had the actual text I suspect:

- Reasonable Catholics would show up and use that as another reason they haven't attended mass in years.

-The FRoman Catholic Brigade will tell interpret what Frank REALLY meant to say.

23 posted on 06/14/2014 4:17:14 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: boatbums

We all know it was the former ecumenical crap. It’s just that most Catholics here love it and others recognize that it goes against Traditional Catholicism and that it should be condemned.


24 posted on 06/14/2014 5:20:37 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

The words of a true pope. Thank you.


25 posted on 06/14/2014 5:23:48 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Brian Kopp DPM
The big question is: Who edited the tape? It had to have been done by someone in the Vatican, or by someone employed by the Vatican. So the Imamgate scandal has just become even more scandalous.

I wouldn't be surprised by this at all. Just like they deleted Francis' previous scandalous interview statements from the Vatican website.

26 posted on 06/14/2014 5:34:52 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Brian Kopp DPM

Thanks for replying. Prayers for our Church.


27 posted on 06/14/2014 6:02:30 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: Gamecock; Alex Murphy

Gamecock

Ahhh, I see my assigning Alex the Moniker “Defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Brigades” has caught on as now we have the FRoman Catholic Brigade. Well done!. Now, do I get royalties????????????????????????? Of course, I will not take command of a brigade, I want a Division at least, and actually I think I should be in charge of a CORP.


28 posted on 06/14/2014 7:19:10 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564

I was going to say Parade of Papists but decided to be nice.


29 posted on 06/14/2014 8:23:36 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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To: Gamecock

Gamecock:

Ahhh, well appreciate the nicer side of Gamecock.


30 posted on 06/14/2014 9:12:23 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564

;-)


31 posted on 06/14/2014 9:59:54 AM PDT by Gamecock (#BringTheAdultsBackToDC)
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