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Why is it more rational to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the…
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | 6/13/2014 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 06/14/2014 2:34:27 AM PDT by markomalley

Radical atheists love to ridicule believers. They mock our “talking snake” in Genesis but really show their own lack of sophistication in understanding the nature of allegory or symbol in human language. But since I do understand allegory I will let them off the hook when it comes to their own “God-particle” and the language and “blind evolution” (as if a process could have eyes and see or not see).” For, unlike some of them (not all), I attended high school grammar class and understand the nature of allegory, symbol, hyperbole, and metaphor when it comes to human parlance.

But I do have this question: Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe?

To quote my own brother George, who is a smart fellow: I’ve always been puzzled why most atheists seem hostile to religion. I guess I would expect a more or an attitude of condescension or superiority because they’re “not so stupid as to believe in God.” And yet they usually feel threatened by religion which usually provides a civilizing aspect they should appreciate. Well said Bother George. Religion has its place in human culture, whether nonbelievers like to admit it or not. It is true, religion has not been without its sins (for human beings are involved). But so has atheist materialism had its sins and bloodbaths: (e.g. Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot and other “unpleasant” materialist escapades).

Can we agree that sin is the universal condition of fallen humanity and move beyond silly attributions for which we are all responsible?

Back to the question: Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe? Am I not being asked to ascribe to dumb luck a world that shows forth multivariate, multilevel and intricate order? Am I not being asked to “believe” that a tornado or some other chance event happened tore through the “junk yard” of the world’s elements and produced a fully functioning (at every level all at once) universe with all its moving parts? Why is this “more rational” than to believe that an intelligence (we call “God”) intelligently ordered all this matter? Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe?

I would ask concise answers from any atheist who chooses to answer. I realize that science cannot “prove God” using its physical tools. Fine. But why must materialists refute God, a position that cannot be verified using the scientific method? Again the question: Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe?

Remember, the key word is “rational” a word to which Atheists do not have full ownership. Stephen Colbert humorously notes that atheists too can have rather irrational reactions to lit win this world. To our atheist interlocutors just this question: Why is this “more rational” than to believe that an intelligence (we call “God”) intelligently ordered all this matter?


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: msgrcharlespope
Full title: Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe?

I'm beginning to think that Msgr needs a proofreader. ;)

1 posted on 06/14/2014 2:34:28 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: AllAmericanGirl44; Biggirl; Carpe Cerevisi; ConorMacNessa; Faith65; GreyFriar; Heart-Rest; ...

Msgr Pope ping


2 posted on 06/14/2014 2:35:52 AM PDT by markomalley (Nothing emboldens the wicked so greatly as the lack of courage on the part of the good -- Leo XIII)
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To: markomalley

Before red shift proved theologian Georges Lemaître right about the universe even having an origin point and was expanding away from it, the atheists believed that the universe was eternal (i.e. always existed). After that, the atheists tried endlessly to rework Lemaître’s theory into one having secular/atheistic explanations.


3 posted on 06/14/2014 2:41:04 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: markomalley

It’s not necessarily more rational, it’s just more convenient. If the earth created itself, then there’s no God to whom we must answer.


4 posted on 06/14/2014 3:01:25 AM PDT by JudyinCanada
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To: markomalley
I'm beginning to think that Msgr needs a proofreader. ;)

"Strong is the sarc in this one, hmm?"

5 posted on 06/14/2014 3:04:58 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: markomalley

Knowing what one does not know is much more important than knowing what one actually knows.


6 posted on 06/14/2014 3:23:15 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: markomalley
To quote my own brother George, who is a smart fellow: I’ve always been puzzled why most atheists seem hostile to religion.

To address George's puzzlement, most are NOT. Perhaps George is confusing loud public atheists with all atheists. Most of whom don't alienate religious folk with anti-God prosthelithizing. Most you may not even know are atheist.

7 posted on 06/14/2014 3:24:03 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; ...

Ping!


8 posted on 06/14/2014 3:45:14 AM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: markomalley

So why not a Very Young Earth theory: “God created everything about 20 minutes ago”?


9 posted on 06/14/2014 4:02:33 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: markomalley

Right off the bat, he doubts the Word of God. Allegory my donkey.


10 posted on 06/14/2014 4:12:48 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Vaquero
most atheists seem hostile to religion

I understand your experiences may differ from your brother's but my experiences with atheist are the same as George's observation.

My puzzlement is not whether atheist are hostile to religion but rather why are they hostile to religion.

11 posted on 06/14/2014 4:13:35 AM PDT by MosesKnows
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To: markomalley

Mary B says:
June 14, 2014 at 12:29 am
Very, very well written article. Thank you.

I just can’t resist pointing out that I think you mean “rational” rather than rationale. “Why is it more rational,” rather than “Why is it more rationale.” I know that may seem picky, but … well, I have no “but” but I thought it merited pointing out.

Reply
Msgr. Charles Pope says:
June 14, 2014 at 4:39 am
Thanks, you’re correct the word is misspelled in several places. I get really frustrated with the word press “AutoCorrect” function


12 posted on 06/14/2014 4:17:35 AM PDT by Not gonna take it anymore (If Obama were twice as smart as he is, he would be a wit)
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To: ctdonath2

If you disagree with Msgr. Pope, perhaps you could discuss your objection to some point raised in his article.


13 posted on 06/14/2014 4:20:54 AM PDT by Tax-chick (I have a classic sports car.)
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To: markomalley

Nothing is more insane than to believe that one day nothing decide to explode and became everything.


14 posted on 06/14/2014 4:22:38 AM PDT by all the best (sat`~!)
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To: markomalley

Bm


15 posted on 06/14/2014 4:28:53 AM PDT by Popman ("Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God" - Thomas Jefferson)
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To: JudyinCanada
then there’s no God to whom we must answer

Si Dieu n'existait pas, il faudrait l'inventer.

"If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him."
Francois Marie Arouet

16 posted on 06/14/2014 4:32:37 AM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
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To: Olog-hai

I just finished reading “The Day Without Yesterday” about Father Lemaitre’s life. I highly recommend it if you have not yet read it.


17 posted on 06/14/2014 4:38:15 AM PDT by Shark24
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To: JudyinCanada
Nothing is more insane than to believe that one day nothing decides to explode and became everything

As of this date, no one has offered evidence of a different circumstance.

The entire scientific world searches for contrary evidence of what the Christian world accepts on faith.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true." Mark Twain

“It ain’t supposed to make sense; it’s faith. Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe.” Archie Bunker

"You can do very little with faith, but you can do nothing without it." Samuel Butler

"Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a Gift from God." Blaise Pascal

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

18 posted on 06/14/2014 5:00:19 AM PDT by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
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To: markomalley
Once you start explaining things with, ‘And then a miracle happened here’, all scientific inquiry stops. A separation is needed. Otherwise, EVERY possible incident may be conveniently explained by the mischievous hand of God. Why does water freeze at a different temperature with salt in it? Who framed Roger Rabbit? Who ate my last cookie?
Next step, appoint elders to ‘know’ how God thinks.
19 posted on 06/14/2014 5:22:33 AM PDT by ArtDodger
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To: markomalley

Why is it more rationale to believe the universe created itself than to believe God created the universe?——————————————————————
I think a lot of it is dependent on who is interpreting the creation story.


20 posted on 06/14/2014 5:33:29 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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If the question is “why is it more rational”? Then the simple answer is because you are explaining the existence of something complex and infinite, by having been created by something infinitely more complex and infinite, which naturally leads to the question of “well, where did that come from”? So the rational is that if the universe created itself, you are only stuck with one level of unexplainable infinity, whereas with god creating it you add at least one and possibly infinite levels of infinity, as how did god get here, how did he get his powers, what kind of realm does he exist in, what created that realm, ad infinitum


21 posted on 06/14/2014 5:39:19 AM PDT by dsrtsage (One half of all people have below average IQ. In the US the number is 54%i)
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To: JudyinCanada

My take: Then they don’t have to believe in God to explain the universe happening.


22 posted on 06/14/2014 6:35:52 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: zot

Good homily/article by Msgr. Pope


23 posted on 06/14/2014 6:36:18 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: markomalley

Wouldn’t that make the universe God?.


24 posted on 06/14/2014 6:52:17 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: dsrtsage

Your post #21 is very good.


25 posted on 06/14/2014 7:00:59 AM PDT by luvbach1 (We are finished. It will just take a while before everyone realizes it.)
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To: Tax-chick

Well, if he allegedly wrote it more than 20 minutes before my post, then he didn’t write it because He wrote it instead when He made the universe about 20 minutes before I posted.


26 posted on 06/14/2014 7:02:20 AM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: markomalley

Here’s how I’ve boiled it down: A self-created universe is an absurdity, while a God-created universe is a mystery. I prefer mystery to absurdity.


27 posted on 06/14/2014 7:15:12 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: GreyFriar

Thanks for the ping. Good question. Materialistic science does not address it.


28 posted on 06/14/2014 9:35:50 AM PDT by zot
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To: markomalley

Short answer: it isn’t. Any science worthy of the name depends on empirical observation and verification. Whenever science deals with time, the further away they get from the present, the less scientific it is.


29 posted on 06/14/2014 10:43:56 AM PDT by TradicalRC (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.)
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To: Yardstick
Here’s how I’ve boiled it down: A self-created universe is an absurdity, while a God-created universe is a mystery. I prefer mystery to absurdity.

Good point.
For me, God's creativity is no mystery. It is simply awe inspiring.
I stand back and admire all created beauty, artistry in all its forms. That created beauty is from our God-given intellect.

That He gave us an eternal soul is simply generous.

That He gave us free will is scary but logical.
Thank God I'm old and now KNOW that the "straight and narrow" is the ONLY path to take.

30 posted on 06/14/2014 11:39:37 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: MosesKnows

Heck I was quoting Msgn Pope. His brother seems to think most atheists are hostile to religion and I disagree with the Monsignor’s (or his brother’s) opinion that most atheists Are hostile to religion.
I think you will find that most atheists as most believers keep a low profile and like the old saw, ‘don’t discuss religion or politics’ they keep their opinions to themselves. It is the loud mouth atheists ( like the load mouth faithful) who get the attention and cause those who are live and let live theists and atheists to be painted with a broad brush of their faith or lack there of.


31 posted on 06/14/2014 12:24:52 PM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: cloudmountain

Yep, that’s it.


32 posted on 06/14/2014 3:50:52 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: markomalley

Don’t quote me on this .......

Carl Sagan was involved in a scientific discussion with a worthy peer. After a while, Sagan asked his fellow, “if you are so smart, how can you believe in “God”. The fellow scientist replied, “if you are so smart, how can you not?”


33 posted on 06/14/2014 5:05:15 PM PDT by HandyDandy (Started out with Burgundy but soon hit the harder stuff....)
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