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'Incredibly important' medieval find in Wales (convent, cemetery and Tudor mansion)
Archaeologynewsnetwork ^ | June 13, 2014

Posted on 06/14/2014 1:52:51 PM PDT by NYer

Archaeologists says they have discovered an "incredibly important" medieval convent, cemetery and Tudor mansion in Ceredigion.

'Incredibly important' medieval find in Wales
Archaeologists working on the Llanllyr nunnery excavation [Credit: BBC]
The location of Llanllyr nunnery in the Aeron Valley had been a mystery until now.

Dr Jemma Bezant from University of Wales Trinity Saint David (UWTSD) said it offered an unparalleled opportunity to find out more about monastic life.

The public were able to view the site on Saturday.

Dr Bezant said: "Medieval nunneries like this are incredibly rare with only one other known in Wales."

The convent, founded by Lord Rhys ap Gruffudd in 1180, was a daughter house of the Strata Florida abbey, a former Cistercian monastery which was of immense importance to Wales during the Middle Ages.

Also the subject of a major University of Wales Trinity Saint David research project, the Strata Florida ruins lie just to the east of the village of Pontrhydfendigaid, near Tregaron in Ceredigion.

'Incredibly important' medieval find in Wales
The mansion depicted on a drawing by Thomas Dinely in 1684 [Credit: BBC]
The archaeologist said they were still aiming to locate a medieval chapel at the excavation site and learn more about the extent of the cemetery using 18th Century estate maps and a 17th Century depiction of the mansion as a guide.

She said: "The discovery of the grave features is very exciting but it is unlikely that skeletal material remains in the acidic west Wales soil.

"If we are able to recover such fragments, they could tell us about who was buried here, how many lived on the estate and what kind of lives they led."

Members of the Dyfed Archaeological Trust are also involved in the excavation. They are being assisted in the work by university students, countryside management students at Coleg Ceredigion in Aberystwyth, and community volunteers.

Their discoveries so far have led to important clues about how the nuns lived, said Dr Bezant.

The convent was on the edge of a wetland valley floor that was drained and improved although watery places were likely to have held continuing spiritual significance to both the nuns and pilgrims, she said.

"We know the nuns farmed sheep and cattle successfully and they would have tended mills, orchards and fishponds.

"There are medieval fairs nearby at Talsarn and Llanerchaereon and they could have been trading far and wide, with coastal access only a couple of miles away at Aberaeron.

"We have already recovered fragments of sumptuous glazed floor tiles indicating that the nunnery was lavishly built and decorated."

Source: BBC News Website [June 07, 2014]


TOPICS: Catholic; History; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: archaeology; ceredigion; godsgravesglyphs; llanllyr; llanllyrnunnery; tudors; wales

1 posted on 06/14/2014 1:52:51 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Strata Florida Abbey

2 posted on 06/14/2014 1:53:19 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping!


3 posted on 06/14/2014 1:53:35 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer

“village of Pontrhydfendigaid”

That’s easy for you to say!


4 posted on 06/14/2014 2:01:56 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: NYer

Very interesting!


5 posted on 06/14/2014 2:06:38 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; 2ndDivisionVet; ..
Thanks NYer for posting this.

6 posted on 06/14/2014 2:07:44 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: NYer

Tudor Mansion?


7 posted on 06/14/2014 2:09:15 PM PDT by Kackikat
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To: Kackikat

An anachronism, indeed.


8 posted on 06/14/2014 2:18:26 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Kackikat

I don’t think it is Tudor, this is medieval in the timeline.


9 posted on 06/14/2014 2:24:36 PM PDT by RJS1950 (The democrats are the "enemies foreign and domestic" cited in the federal oath)
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To: Kackikat

When Henry VIII destroyed the monasteries and Church holdings, he gave them to his friends and relatives. The same thing happened in Spain, when the left took over in the 19th century...the properties owned by the Church during the time of the “Desamortizacion” (”Disentailment”) were distributed to friends and relatives of the government.

The bad thing for the average Englishman or Spaniard was that the monasteries were big economic centers and maintained many families around them. It was paternalistic, but there would have been a transition to a different system as the trade fairs and banking brought by them had an impact.

The result in Spain was massive emigration, but that was during the 19th century. I’m not sure what happened in Wales, although it had major emigration to Argentina and the US in the 19th century.


10 posted on 06/14/2014 2:26:36 PM PDT by livius
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To: Fred Nerks

“GET THEE TO A NUNNERY,” has a whole new meaning.


11 posted on 06/14/2014 2:37:12 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: NYer
I wonder if Brother Cadfael ever visited there. :o)
12 posted on 06/14/2014 2:38:17 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: TigersEye

Cistercian lineages are interesting. Their main practice was
meditation, not prayer. They have a lot in common with certain lineages of Zen meditation and contemplation.

The main hall of this nunnery could have been a meditation room.


13 posted on 06/14/2014 2:43:36 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: Candor7

Wales are not fish.


14 posted on 06/14/2014 2:49:52 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: RJS1950
Mansion is Tudor. Convent definitely medieval.

Probably the land was confiscated from the order by Henry VIII's minions, given to local nobility or gentry "for value received" and the mansion then constructed over the wrecked convent.

15 posted on 06/14/2014 2:59:33 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: NYer

...watery places were likely to have held continuing spiritual significance to both the nuns and pilgrims, she said.

***
What? We are not talking about pagans here. Why would she say this? Did she mean to say that such places had practical significance for the nuns?


16 posted on 06/14/2014 3:01:25 PM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: livius
What you said.

"proudly posting without reading the entire thread since 1998."

17 posted on 06/14/2014 3:01:26 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: livius

When Henry VIII destroyed the monasteries and Church holdings, he gave them to his friends and relatives.

***
Coming soon to a church near you....


18 posted on 06/14/2014 3:02:59 PM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

Pont rhyd fendigaid
Bridge too blessed

As close i can break it.


19 posted on 06/14/2014 3:05:03 PM PDT by moose07 (the truth will out ,one day. ........dot removal in progress.......)
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To: NYer
Well, I thought the article was going to tell me they might have found where the English lost their bollocks after the Second world War. Daniel Hannan found his, verbally chastises the idiocy of Socialism in debates and knows US History better than most secondary education History teacher in America.
20 posted on 06/14/2014 3:17:05 PM PDT by cashless (Obama told us he would side with Muslims if the political winds shifted in an ugly direction. Ready?)
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To: moose07

Good job! I’m 50% Welsh, and had no clue. My Grandfather would have though.


21 posted on 06/14/2014 3:26:11 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Bigg Red; NYer; AnAmericanMother
There are a lot of holy wells in Ireland, Wales, and Britain, many of them associated with saints who were famed for causing the water to spring up in that place, or for healing people with the waters.

This custom may be related to Biblical piety. In the Holy Land you can find a shrine over the spring that issued from the staff of Moses and the Well of Beersheba, and, if I remember correctly, Moses’ well near Mount Nebo. The Jordan was also associated with miracles, such as the healing of Naaman the Syrian, who had leprosy.

Reformation-supporting governments destroyed wells and springs associated with Catholic saints, including the most famous one in Britain, the Holy Spring of Our Lady of Walsingham.

Modern historians are increasingly questioning the Reformation assumption that these were originally pagan wells. There's a book from around 20 years ago called "The Pagan Religions of the Ancient British Isles" which debunks the idea that these were taken over from the Druids and so forth.

Oddly enough, just as modern historians and archaeologists are to some extent disproving that these wells were sites of Druid rituals, modern-day pagans are claiming them. But they are so bogus: they have no historic connection with pre-Christian paganism, and remarkably little interest in actual history as opposed to fabricated-from-whole-cloth fantasy.

I'm no expert, but that's as much as I (think I) know.

So yeah, they may have had miraculous wells or healing springs associated with the convent.

22 posted on 06/14/2014 3:41:05 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
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To: livius

The left is doing the same today in America.


23 posted on 06/14/2014 3:44:57 PM PDT by bgill
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Okay. Thank you for the education, my FRiend.


24 posted on 06/14/2014 4:43:15 PM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: NYer

Excellent. My wife will be interested.


25 posted on 06/14/2014 5:18:57 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Of course not. Neither was Bob Marley and his group.


26 posted on 06/14/2014 6:25:24 PM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: Candor7

Medieval meditation does not have a great deal in common with Zen. Even contemplation, which at first glance is closer, does not. Are you familiar with the Ladder of Monks?


27 posted on 06/14/2014 7:21:46 PM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: NYer

The Welsh have cooked up a rare bit of knowledge here.


28 posted on 06/14/2014 11:54:30 PM PDT by Rockpile
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To: NYer

For later.


29 posted on 06/15/2014 12:20:02 AM PDT by kalee
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To: Hieronymus

Of course Scala Claustralium has nothing in common with Zen, after all its just a very separate path, which cannot ever have any similaritoes to anything, its so unique and so historically unprecedented.


30 posted on 06/15/2014 2:11:39 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra
“village of Pontrhydfendigaid”
That’s easy for you to say!

I hang out at Pontrhydfendigaid all the time ...

31 posted on 06/15/2014 5:32:37 AM PDT by BlackVeil ('The past is never dead. It's not even past.' William Faulkner)
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To: Candor7

Distinction would be more helpful than hyperbole.

Lectio, oratio, meditatio, contemplatio. Prayer can be used as a translation of either the second species, or of the genus. The species have been articulated and delineated more clearly over time, but in the big picture Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross made the last major contributions, and they were largely summing up what had beem already articulated over the previous five centuries, which in turn was a reworking of the patristic era.

To treat a medieval Welsh monastery as somehow a foreign body to the continuity of western monasticism with a foreign approach to prayer is inept in terms of western religious life. To the extent that contemporary practices in some communities are foreign to the tradition, it is because in certain currents there has been a turn away from the entire tradition, and in other currents (Everard Mercurian deserves a great deal of credit here) that have focussed upon some aspects of the tradition and rejected others. Very often the communities that reject everything had rejected or lost a portion of the tradition generations earlier, and it seems are attempting to fill a real gap by creating a bigger gap.


32 posted on 06/15/2014 11:24:46 AM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra

LOL! I was thinking the same thing! What a name.


33 posted on 06/15/2014 6:20:36 PM PDT by rdl6989
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To: Hieronymus

All human minds work basically the same. A fact much forgotten.


34 posted on 06/17/2014 2:36:59 AM PDT by Candor7 (Obama fascism article:(http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/05/barack_obama_the_quintessentia_1.html))
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To: Candor7

They largely have the same starting point, and they largely have the same potential (particularly in the spiritual realm), but what is done (or not done) to develop the potential has a huge impact on what they are capable of at a given instant. One point of the Ladder of Monks, and many other works, is that the method of development matters.

This is why a meaningful distinction may be made between various activities involving the will and/or intellect in the spiritual life.

A system that integrates the Gifts of the Spirit will be different from one that does not—which is better would depend on whether or not the Gifts of the Spirit are grounded in reality.


35 posted on 06/17/2014 4:36:33 AM PDT by Hieronymus ( (It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged. --G.K. Chesterton))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Yes, some of Thomas Cromwells work, no doubt.


36 posted on 06/17/2014 4:42:15 AM PDT by mware
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To: Mrs. Don-o
One of the biggest cottage industries of 18th c. Britain was attributing "pagan" origins to darn near everything. It survives to this day.

There were a lot of different factors at work in this -

1. The "Enlightenment" distaste for revealed religion of any sort, thus any miracle must be pagan, not our nice rational Church of England.

2. The protestant distaste for Catholicism's local, physical associations and a desire to stamp out devotions to the saints as "a fond thing, vainly invented" led to a disavowal of the site of any miracle. This is why Walsingham, for example, was razed to the ground and the ancient statue of Our Lady formally burned in London.

3. The "cool" factor - pagans are SO much cooler than plain old ordinary Christians!

4. It sells, tourists eat it up. See No. 3.

5. Historical ignorance. Surprisingly prevalent.

37 posted on 06/17/2014 7:31:37 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Bigg Red
Thanks, fascinating!

Bigg red, the above, #37, may interest you.

38 posted on 06/17/2014 7:35:03 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I forgot about the chief exponent of the 18th c. Druidic Industry: Iolo Morganwg, who called himself that because "Ed Williams" just didn't cut it for a Druid.

He single-handedly led the Druidic Revival and fabricated a bunch of nonsense about supposed pagan rituals.

The former "Arch-Druid of Canterbury" - Rowan Williams (no relation to Ed so far as I know) - attended one of his organization's Druidic Festivals and was invested in some sort of office.

Utter silliness bearing very little relation to reality. But the tourists (and the Welsh nationalists) just eat this stuff up.

39 posted on 06/17/2014 8:06:15 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thanks for pinging me to her comments.

Yes, it certainly makes sense.


40 posted on 06/17/2014 8:44:19 AM PDT by Bigg Red (31 May 2014: Obamugabe officially declares the USA a vanquished subject of the Global Caliphate.)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Bigg Red
Bigg Red, more from An American Mother, above.

It's craaa-a-a-a-a-a-z-zzz-e-e-e-e-e-e...

41 posted on 06/17/2014 11:23:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
A fellow named Chris Johnson, who was following the Episcopalian follies for a long time, came up with "Johnson's Law" - to-wit:

It is impossible to parody the Episcopal Church, because no matter how crazy your hypothesis they will get ahead of you before the ink is dry.

42 posted on 06/17/2014 11:29:27 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ecce Crucem Domini, fugite partes adversae. Vicit Leo de Tribu Iuda, Radix David, Alleluia!)
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To: AnAmericanMother

:o/


43 posted on 06/17/2014 11:34:27 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Point of clarification.)
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To: Dr. Bogus Pachysandra; SunkenCiv

Wales is a beautiful place - but I find many of the place names impossible.


44 posted on 06/20/2014 1:56:59 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: colorado tanker

http://llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyll-llantysiliogogogoch.info/scripts/index.php


45 posted on 06/21/2014 2:30:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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