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To: daniel1212
Well, let's make a start. This is what I teach:

1. What is the basis for your assurance of truth?

Jesus Christ, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived.

2. Is an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth (including which writings and men are of God) and preservation of faith?

I take it you're asking here about the determination of the Canon of Scripture, since there can be no confidence in the the authority of Scripture unless we know confidently what Scripture comprises.

It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned which writings are to be included in the list of the sacred books. Scripture is Liturgical: it is to be proclaimed in official public worship. The Books used --- in practice -- by the local Churches in Liturgy, comprise the Canon later formally proclaimed by local synods and councils such as Hippo and Carthage. In other words, first came the preaching of the Apostles and their immediate successors; then came liturgical practice, what the Churches actually did ("Lex orandi, lex credendi"); then came formal Canon.

3. Does being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation mean that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium?

The local Churches (meaning, in Catholic parlance, dioceses) were, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation; it follows that the Churches in union were necessarily infallible in their transmission of Revelation.

4. Are those who knowingly dissent from the latter in rebellion to God?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the latter." Those who dissent from this Revelation are dissenting from God.

Whether this imputable as a subjective, morally deliberate "rebellion" depends on the extent to which the individual knows and intends rebellion against Our Lord the Holy Spirit. Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives a fuller treatment here.

34 posted on 06/15/2014 9:18:58 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("The Holy Catholic Church: the more Holy she is, the more Catholic she is.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o; metmom
1. What is the basis for your assurance of truth?

< Jesus Christ, Who can neither deceive nor be deceived.

I think that is such a given as to seem like an avoidance of the question. How about "What is your instrumental basis for assurance of truth?"

2. Is an assuredly (if conditionally) infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth (including which writings and men are of God) and preservation of faith?

I take it you're asking here about the determination of the Canon of Scripture,

If that is all i meant then i would have said Scripture, not "including which writings and men are of God." But i mean, "Is an assuredly infallible magisterium essential for determination of Truth, both oral and written, and including which men are of God?"

there can be no confidence in the the authority of Scripture unless we know confidently what Scripture comprises.

So one must have a complete canon in order to have confidence in the the authority of Scripture?

It was by the apostolic Tradition that the Church discerned...

That simply describes the process, not how even such a medium as apostolic tradition was established as being of God. But would you say the infallible magisterium essential to determine what writings are of God?

Cardinal Dulles states, "People cannot discover the contents of revelation by their unaided powers of reason and observation. They have to be told by people who have received in from on high." - Cardinal Avery Dulles, SJ, “Magisterium: Teacher and Guardian of the Faith,” p. 72;

3. Does being the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation mean that such is that assuredly infallible magisterium?

The local Churches (meaning, in Catholic parlance, dioceses) were...

But this presumes a centralized magisterium, and so your answer is that being the magisterium over the body which was the historical instruments and stewards of Divine revelation means or requires assured (if conditional) infallibility?

4. Are those who knowingly dissent from the latter in rebellion to God?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the latter." Those who dissent from this Revelation are dissenting from God.

"Latter" refers to the assuredly infallible magisterium just mentioned, since it determines what the Revelation is. Is that a yes or a no? As Pope Boniface VIII in his infallible Unam Sanctam states, "Whoever, therefore, resists this authority [the pope], resists the command of God Himself."

Whether this imputable as a subjective, morally deliberate "rebellion" depends on the extent to which the individual knows and intends rebellion against Our Lord the Holy Spirit. Sacred Scripture must be read and interpreted in the light of the same Spirit by whom it was written.

I said "knowingly" for that reason. But as per your answer, it seems you must mean that those who see obedience to God as requiring dissent from Rome in any dogma is rebellion against God, under the premise that being the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, and inheritors of Divine promises of guidance and preservation, "the same God is the author both of the Sacred Books and of the doctrine committed to the Church" and thus "all interpretation is foolish and false which... is opposed to the doctrine of the Church.(Providentissimus Deus)

Could you answer these more clearly? Thanks.

40 posted on 06/15/2014 10:46:18 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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