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Can an infant be baptized, be raised by believing parents & later turn from the faith?
6/15/2014 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 06/15/2014 12:52:19 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

1.) An infant is baptized, is raised by believing parents and later when older turns from the faith.

2.) An infant is baptized, has no believing parents to be raised by, and when older doesn't turn from the faith.

Given that the antithesis exists for 1 & 2, wouldn't it be prudent for the priest to baptize the fortunate infant as well as the unfortunate, as either could remain faithful when older, show perseverance against high odds, and no priest knows the future - only God Almighty?

Given that only God knows the future, perhaps withholding baptism isn't an option at all for the priest. If the priest is unsure about 1, 2 or the antithesis for both, should they let God do their baptizing for them if they lack faith?


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: babies; catholic; evil; ireland; irish; massburial; massgrave; massgraves; nobaptism; nobaptismthennorites; nunratched; nunratchet; nuns; philomena; priests; religion; romancatholic; tomboftheunknownbaby; unmarkedgraves
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Stop being an idiot.

If its a question of taking care of those still living or digging a grave the answer is simple.

Nothings stopping you from taking a shovel over there and digging 800 graves for each of those children.

Without the work of those nuns there would be many many more dead children.


41 posted on 06/15/2014 1:27:03 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: RoosterRedux

I would say that baptism is “the answer of a good conscience”. To me, the ‘answer of a good conscience’ is actually doing something to show your conscience has been pricked/changed.

It’s kind of like God saying “Ok, now you SAID it. Prove to me that you mean it”.

I think back to Jesus saying in Matthew 7:21 “Not all who say to me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father.” Just saying” Yeah, I believe” won’t cut it. You have to prove it in your life. Step #1 is being baptized. If you don’t take that first step, you haven’t committed.

Baptism is that final step of taking an action to show that you are dying to (committing to abstaining from) sin. If you are not willing to be baptized, you aren’t willing to die to sin.


42 posted on 06/15/2014 1:27:18 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: Bryan24

Right.


43 posted on 06/15/2014 1:28:40 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama: Race is his cover...jihad is his game.)
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To: Tax-chick

Thx.


44 posted on 06/15/2014 1:30:22 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama: Race is his cover...jihad is his game.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It’s Sunday Flame the Catholics eh?


45 posted on 06/15/2014 1:30:27 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt ("When you're going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: RoosterRedux
It's a 1984 Mazda RX-7. It was my father's, and my uncle has had it for years, and just shipped it to me. I drove it around a little on Friday, and I could see my dad in the passenger seat, sipping a gin and tonic, "Easy with the clutch there, you'll spill my drink!"

This isn't it, but looks just like it:


46 posted on 06/15/2014 1:31:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I have a classic sports car.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Actually, baptism means nothing. You must FIRST confess that you realize you are a sinner, ask Christ for forgiveness of that sin, repent that sin, be saved, and then, as a public show to all that you have repented and changed your life over to Jesus Christ, you can have baptism to show proof. Simple baptism alone means nothing. Without FAITH in Jesus Christ to forgive your sins, it means nothing.


47 posted on 06/15/2014 1:31:47 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (MARANATHA, MARANATHA, Come quickly LORD Jesus!!! Father send thy Son!! Its Time!)
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To: Dallas59

10-4, roger that. You are correct.


48 posted on 06/15/2014 1:32:14 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (MARANATHA, MARANATHA, Come quickly LORD Jesus!!! Father send thy Son!! Its Time!)
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To: Tax-chick

Nice!


49 posted on 06/15/2014 1:32:18 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama: Race is his cover...jihad is his game.)
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To: driftdiver

Happy Father’s Day! I hope your steaks turn out excellently!

I let my husband drive my car ;-).


50 posted on 06/15/2014 1:32:27 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I have a classic sports car.)
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To: narses

Ad Hominem. Yawn.

Not allowed at FR, as it clearly says no personal attacks.

I’ll take Jesus’ own words.

But, I guess then and now I guessguess that I will need a scribal Oral Tradition given to me by the Elders.

Jesus, why do you not wash your hands or carry on the tradition of the Elders?

Jesus: by your traditions, you usurp the Word of God.

That is preety much what was said to Jesus and how He retorted.

God can transcend all, is transcendent,, and lead all to heaven those who truly seek Him with all their heart.”

“You shall seek Me and shall find me when you seek Me with all your heart.”


51 posted on 06/15/2014 1:33:09 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

When I was young our parents brought us up in the Grace Brethren Church. They did not believe in infant baptism as they were too young to make that decision. That church baptized by immersion.


52 posted on 06/15/2014 1:33:55 PM PDT by Vinylly (?%)
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To: aumrl

In Acts 2, Peter told them to “Repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins”.

You can twist yourself into any shape of pretzel you want, Peter told them to be baptized. And he had just convinced them that they had crucified the Son of God. THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHAT THEY HAD TO DO. Peter told them to repent and be baptized.

What did he do, tell them to do something utterly useless? If it wasn’t essential, why did he bother to tell them that?

Peter tells us in 1 Peter 3:21 why baptism is essential. It is the symbolic act of the answer of a good conscience.


53 posted on 06/15/2014 1:35:01 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
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To: RoosterRedux

You can’t tell how gorgeous it is from the picture. It has the original interior - plum leather seats, hot! - a rebuilt engine after one of my cousins mucked it up in the 90s, and new paint before it sat (covered) in my uncle’s barn for several years.

When the nice Russian man from the car-shipment company pulled it up in the driveway, I cried.


54 posted on 06/15/2014 1:36:32 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I have a classic sports car.)
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To: driftdiver

Individual burial or mass burial?

Baptism for those in the mass burial.

It was, in the end, a mass burial.

Individual burial for the more respectable babies?

If baptized I imagine they would have been buried individually.

No money from the mothers? Broke?

Was the RCC broke then?

Money for churches to be erected, but not individual graves?

No way around this.................


55 posted on 06/15/2014 1:38:14 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Tax-chick
Remember that the best thing you can do for an old car is drive it (well, maybe not the very best thing but it does help). With all the aftermarket parts available nowadays, you should be able to drive it forever (or at least until Armageddon).

Best of luck with it. Perfect for Father's Day...though I know you are a mother.

56 posted on 06/15/2014 1:39:41 PM PDT by RoosterRedux (Obama: Race is his cover...jihad is his game.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

57 posted on 06/15/2014 1:40:46 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: RoosterRedux

Thanks! I’ll drive it until I have Alzheimers Disease, like my father, and then the most favored of my children can drive me around in it.


58 posted on 06/15/2014 1:42:02 PM PDT by Tax-chick (I have a classic sports car.)
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To: Bryan24; RoosterRedux

Please notice what Peter wrote:

“...when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water. 21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience...”

The water of baptism saved Noah how? From death? On the contrary, without the Ark the water would have killed Noah. So in what sense did the Flood ‘save’ Noah?

It saved him out of (separated him) from the surrounding evil world, as Peter preached in Acts 2:

“And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”

Salvation has two meanings: salvation from the effect of our sin (justification) and salvation from the surrounding evil world (sanctification). Baptism does not justify us, but it DOES separate us from the “crooked generation” in which we live - as Peter pointed out twice.

Since God cannot sanctify someone who has not been justified, water baptism has no meaning for a baby. The child will eventually need to “Repent and believe” - or die in his sin.


59 posted on 06/15/2014 1:45:21 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Left wing. Right wing. One buzzard.)
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To: Ouchthatonehurt

False allegation from you. I know, the RCC has been victimized so heavily throughout the centuries and did very little of their own in comparison.

This isn’t about the RCC.

It is about whether or not the babies were baptized.

If they were, why no sacred ground individual graves?

No money from unwed mothers to procure them?

The RCC was broke? Money to erect churches, buy wine for priests, friars, monks, nuns personal use, but no $$$ for individual graves from the Vatican or local diocese?


60 posted on 06/15/2014 1:45:54 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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