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Celibacy
The Catholic Thing ^ | June 22, 2014 | Kristina Johannes

Posted on 06/22/2014 2:42:07 PM PDT by NYer

A common criticism of the Catholic Church’s teachings on sexual morality has to do with the largely unmarried clergy who are charged with preaching the message.  The accepted wisdom is that celibate males have no business telling married couples how to live their lives: “What do they know about the subject?”  

I remember a particularly egregious example. In 1974, Earl Butz, then U.S. Secretary of Agriculture, ridiculed Pope Paul VI’s opposition to contraception, He no playa the game, he no maka the rules.” He later apologized, but in reality he was only saying publicly what many, including many Catholics, were saying privately.

I’ve never understood this. Jesus, God Incarnate, was a celibate male. Why would any Christian assume that a man striving to emulate Christ in the flesh would have nothing to offer about the nature of love?

Christians agree that God is love.  What they don’t agree on is what should be derived from this fact.

I’ve taught natural family planning for almost twenty years and I consider one of the most important elements of this instruction to be what is conveyed about the nature of love. I always hesitate to use an adjective such as “true” to describe a noun such as “love.” It seems inadvertently to give status to any falsehood parading as truth. 

Love is what it is. Everything else is a pretender and should be described with its own noun. Love is not lust; love is not use; love is not convenience. Love is divine, with all that implies.

St. John Paul II’s pontificate emphasized church teaching about love and its incarnational aspects. From 1981 through 1984, he devoted a whole series of audiences to this subject, which he dubbed “The Theology of the Body.”  These talks were later gathered into a book and became the basis of serious theological reflections

Although continence for the sake of the Kingdom was an important aspect of this teaching, the theology on marriage seemed to get the most focus when it was disseminated and discussed.  Celibacy was initially given short shrift, which is unfortunate, because the fact of the matter is, if you don’t understand or appreciate continence for the sake of the Kingdom, you aren’t going to appreciate or understand the nature of the sacrament of marriage. 


          Pope Paul VI and Cardinal Wojtyla, c.1967

A keystone of St. JPII’s teaching in this matter is found in Gaudium et Spes:

Indeed, the Lord Jesus, when He prayed to the Father, that all may be one. . . as we are one (John 17:21-22) opened up vistas closed to human reason, for He implied a certain likeness between the union of the divine Persons, and the unity of Gods sons in truth and charity. This likeness reveals that man, who is the only creature on earth which God willed for itself, cannot fully find himself except through a sincere gift of himself. [24] 
This section refers the reader (in a footnote) to Luke 17:33, “Whoever seeks to gain his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will preserve it.”

The essence of love is a willingness to give a sincere gift of self. We only love when we act like God.  God the Son showed us what this means by giving such a complete gift of Self that He emptied Himself, as St. Paul tells us, going all the way to the cross. 

Our life of love is a continuum that starts here on earth and is fulfilled in Heaven.   The crucifixion was completed by the resurrection, when love conquered even death.   Celibacy for the kingdom is the eschatological symbol of love and it has much to teach those of us who are married.

In a 1981 audience, reflecting on Christ’s words about the resurrection of the body found in Mt. 22:30, St. JPII wrote:

The reciprocal gift of oneself to God – a gift in which man will concentrate and express all the energies of his own personal and at the same time psychosomatic subjectivity – will be the response to God’s gift of himself by man, a gift which will become completely and definitively beatifying, as a response worthy of a personal subject to God’s gift of Himself, “virginity,” or rather the virginal state of the body, will be totally manifested as the eschatological fulfillment of the “nuptial” meaning of the body, as the specific sign and the authentic expression of all personal subjectivity.  In this way, therefore, that eschatological situation in which “they neither marry nor are given in marriage” has its solid foundation in the future state of the personal subject, when, as a result of the vision of God “face to face,” there will be born in him a love of such depth and power of concentration on God Himself, as to completely absorb his whole psychosomatic subjectivity.

It is the mutual gift of self that is imaged in conjugal love.  Without denigrating the noble vocation of marriage, it can rightly be said that the couple undertaking marriage can find no better guide to understanding the essential nature of the gift of self than the celibate priest who has emptied himself in imitation of Christ. 

Let’s thank our priests for showing us this most radical example of self-gift.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; celibacy; morality
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1 posted on 06/22/2014 2:42:07 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 06/22/2014 2:42:37 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: NYer
"The accepted wisdom is that celibate males have no business telling married couples how to live their lives"

I don't think that is correct. The accepted wisdom is that your church has no business telling the clergy that have to be celibate when that is clearly not what God has proclaimed.

3 posted on 06/22/2014 2:52:24 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: NYer

Bishop Slattery wrote that celibacy, whether of clergy/religious or simply chaste unmarried/widowed people, is a sign of the Resurrection, when there will be neither marrying nor giving in marriage.


4 posted on 06/22/2014 2:59:37 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Cynicism is a far greater spiritual danger than naivete." ~ Stephen Webb)
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To: NYer
A common criticism of the Catholic Church’s teachings on sexual morality has to do with the largely unmarried clergy who are charged with preaching the message. The accepted wisdom is that celibate males have no business telling married couples how to live their lives: “What do they know about the subject?”

I've heard and read many criticisms of the Catholic Church. But never that. That would be like saying a heterosexual cannot preach on the evil nature of homosexuality. Or that a monogamous man can't criticize adultery.

I think a person who has the calling to celibacy should walk in that calling and devote his or her life to God. But only if they are so called by God, not by man.


5 posted on 06/22/2014 3:05:05 PM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
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To: NYer

**“What do they know about the subject?”**

Gee whiz, don’t people realize that priests had parents! They saw how marriage works or doesn’t work.


6 posted on 06/22/2014 3:08:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Just Astounding! Sure priests just spring up out of a box! ;)


7 posted on 06/22/2014 3:27:18 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: defconw
"They saw how marriage works or doesn’t work.

Strange that only priests notice how marriages works or doesn't work. That leaves 99.99% of us just clueless.

8 posted on 06/22/2014 3:31:47 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: defconw

It’s like saying Stephen Hawking isn’t qualified to discuss black holes because he’s never been inside one.


9 posted on 06/22/2014 3:32:00 PM PDT by Argus
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To: Salvation
They saw how marriage works or doesn’t work.

Got a problem with God's instructions again?

10 posted on 06/22/2014 3:35:04 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: Karl Spooner

??


11 posted on 06/22/2014 3:36:30 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Argus

Yep! But it don’t matter because Catholic=Bad on Free Republic. Don’t really care. I know the truth. It’s like speaking with liberals, every word is parsed, sliced diced and disputed. If Jesus Christ himself showed up it would be the same. But it’s OK.


12 posted on 06/22/2014 3:39:10 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: NYer

“Without denigrating the noble vocation of marriage, it can rightly be said that the couple undertaking marriage can find no better guide to understanding the essential nature of the gift of self than the celibate priest who has emptied himself in imitation of Christ.”

The problem in a marriage is that not only is the human a sinner, but the marriage partner is a sinner as well. If both partners are trying to make the marriage work, saving it usually is not that hard. But if only one of the two wants to save it...


13 posted on 06/22/2014 3:44:36 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Left wing. Right wing. One buzzard.)
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To: NYer

“The accepted wisdom is that celibate males have no business telling married couples how to live their lives: ‘What do they know about the subject?’”

People who say this have obviously never been in a confessional. Priests know just about everything there is no know about the subject. After hearing thousands of people confess their sins, it would be pretty damn amazing if they did not.


14 posted on 06/22/2014 3:47:50 PM PDT by Bill93
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To: Mr Rogers
If both partners are trying to make the marriage work, saving it usually is not that hard.

That's a key point. When people say a marriage "just fell apart," they're being deceptive. If a marriage doesn't last, it's because one or both people weren't willing to do the work to address their sin and hold on to something bigger than themselves. It's not because of the weather or other outside factors.

15 posted on 06/22/2014 3:50:35 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Cynicism is a far greater spiritual danger than naivete." ~ Stephen Webb)
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To: NYer; aposiopetic; rbmillerjr; Lowell1775; JPX2011; NKP_Vet; Jed Eckert; Recovering Ex-hippie; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

16 posted on 06/22/2014 3:51:30 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Mr Rogers
Any holy priest will tell you , he is sinner as well. His sins may be different from married people but we all fall short, it's human nature.

Also boys and girls, priests are taught in seminary about all subjects relating to the people they will minister. You don't have to be a rapist to council rapists, do you? You don't have to be depressed to council the depressed.

17 posted on 06/22/2014 3:53:21 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: BipolarBob
The accepted wisdom is that your church has no business telling the clergy that have to be celibate when that is clearly not what God has proclaimed.

Source? Jesus spoke of some who would remain celibate ("eunuchs") for the sake of the Kingdom of God (Mt 19:12). St. Paul not only continued his pre-conversion celibacy as a Christian but recommended it for those who would be dedicated to serving God in this world (1 Cor. 7:7, 17, 32-35). He was speaking to a general audience and so he does not oblige it. But observe what he says in verse 17, "Only, everyone should live as the Lord has assigned, just as God called each one. I give this order in all the churches." This coincides with the admonition of Jesus to follow the vocation given by God, whether celibacy (Mt 19:12) or marriage.

18 posted on 06/22/2014 4:02:22 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
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To: defconw

The priest is a sinner, but God is not. God never treats the priest the way another sinful human will treat a spouse. I did not say a priest could not counsel, but his celibacy does not ensure there is “no better guide”. Celibacy is a handicap for a marriage counselor to overcome, not an advantage. It has been my experience, for example, that those who have not raised kids offer inferior advice on how to do so. YMMV.


19 posted on 06/22/2014 4:05:09 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Left wing. Right wing. One buzzard.)
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To: NYer
Clergy are not born in a pod. They know what is required and all the ones I've ever known prefer celibacy. They completely understand what they are doing and why. Jeesh! What's it to you anyway?
20 posted on 06/22/2014 4:05:25 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: Mr Rogers
It has been my experience, for example, that those who have not raised kids offer inferior advice on how to do so.

We have a religious sister at our parish who spent over 40 years as a school teacher and principal. I've found her counsel on child-rearing extremely helpful.

21 posted on 06/22/2014 4:07:14 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Cynicism is a far greater spiritual danger than naivete." ~ Stephen Webb)
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To: Mr Rogers

How do you presume to know how God treats his priest? You really have no idea what it’s about. All you can think of sex. Is that all your marriage is about? I think you need to get over this.


22 posted on 06/22/2014 4:07:43 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: Tax-chick

They think our religious and clergy live in a box and only come out on Sunday, or when they want molest kids or kill babies and drink their blood. ;) Broken record.


23 posted on 06/22/2014 4:10:49 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: BipolarBob

I guess the two following passages have nothing to with what God proclaimed??

God the Son said this: “ For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].” Matthew 19:12

And then St. Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians (7:7): “For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.”

No, those wouldn’t have anything to do it, not at all. Sheesh.


24 posted on 06/22/2014 4:12:15 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: defconw

“How do you presume to know how God treats his priest? You really have no idea what it’s about. All you can think of sex. Is that all your marriage is about? I think you need to get over this.”

I think you need to repent of your sins.

I know God treats priests and all humans with perfect justice and love, and my spouse does not always do so. And I did not write about sex. My marriage, now in year 27, doesn’t need your advice, and I think you need to get over yourself.


25 posted on 06/22/2014 4:15:38 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Left wing. Right wing. One buzzard.)
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To: defconw

I just don’t know. One of my friends had a religious brother of the Marianist order who lived next door to her. He was an attorney. When her husband left her with extreme prejudice - things like having the power to the house turned off without telling her - the Brother represented her in the divorce at a very modest fee. How could they not understand all the realities of married life?

Our Sister Veronica came from a family of 10 children; she was 8th or 9th, and their father died before she was 10. Before she went into the convent, she saw not only her parents’ life but her older siblings’ marriages. We could just sit trading stories for hours, until finally, “I have another appointment, Cynthia.” “Oh, shoot, Sister, I think Tom’s making lunch at home!”

They don’t have infant oblates any more. Everyone is in real life.


26 posted on 06/22/2014 4:16:25 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Cynicism is a far greater spiritual danger than naivete." ~ Stephen Webb)
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To: SpirituTuo; NYer
"which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake"
Did the Church make them or command them? No. They did it of themselves.

"But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.”
Sounds pretty much like Paul is leaving the door open . . One man after this manner (celibacy) and another after that (marriage). There is NO requirement to be celibate recorded for clergy. Some prophets were married and some were not.

27 posted on 06/22/2014 4:25:37 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: Bill93

Priests do for nothing what shrinks get paid a $100 dollars an hour for.


28 posted on 06/22/2014 4:32:05 PM PDT by NKP_Vet ("Truth is like a lion. You don't have to defend it. Let it loose. It will defend itself")
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To: Mr Rogers

Why do you feel the need to stick your beak into our Church then? I really don’t know what your issues are, but I’ll take care of my soul and you take care of yours, OK?


29 posted on 06/22/2014 4:34:35 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: Tax-chick
That must be it. We are still paying for the convent and seminary schools of old. I know the priests I've know through the years are pretty normal people. Like you said, they have parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, friends who have kids. They don't live in a pod.

IIRC, and I do, one of the reasons the sisters dropped the habit, was they felt that people did not approach them as people.

30 posted on 06/22/2014 4:38:23 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: defconw; Mr Rogers
All you can think of sex.

Now you can read peoples minds?? You are making it personal and that is not allowed. Mr Rogers was conducting himself deliberately and courteously. You have not.

31 posted on 06/22/2014 4:41:15 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: Mr Rogers

Pope John Paul II would go to Confession weekly.

All men, including priests, and all women, including nuns and sisters, know they are sinners.

What’s your point?


32 posted on 06/22/2014 4:44:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: BipolarBob
If you are not Catholic I don't see why you care. Either of you. You don't see me sticking my beak into any thing about Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Evangelicals, etc. Go ahead and look.
33 posted on 06/22/2014 4:49:22 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: defconw

Well I’ll tell you why I care. The article starts off with a straw man argument. “The accepted wisdom is that celibate males have no business telling married couples how to live their lives”. I don’t think that is accurate. Priests may do very well at counseling as well as any married counselor who has had proper training. So I think this article has a false premise. I challenge it. Otherwise I might as well agree with it if I don’t challenge it. We can follow the rules of debating without resorting to name calling or making it personal (like you did).


34 posted on 06/22/2014 4:58:36 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Obama - The Scandal a Week President.)
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To: BipolarBob
"The accepted wisdom is that your church has no business telling the clergy that have to be celibate when that is clearly not what God has proclaimed." Your Quote.

You attacked my Church and my clergy, I defended. I didn't call you any names. Go back and read the threads I called you not one name.

Your attempt to silence me has failed.

35 posted on 06/22/2014 5:04:42 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: Tax-chick

BINGO! We have a winner!


36 posted on 06/22/2014 5:10:53 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Tax-chick
Bishop Slattery wrote that celibacy, whether of clergy/religious or simply chaste unmarried/widowed people, is a sign of the Resurrection, when there will be neither marrying nor giving in marriage.

That's pretty meaningless...Perhaps the guy should have said it's a sign of the Resurrected...But it's still meaningless since in after the Resurrection there will be no desire for relations with the opposite sex to contend with...

37 posted on 06/22/2014 5:13:29 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: defconw

Good grief, why all the attacking from the non-Catholics?


38 posted on 06/22/2014 5:14:23 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Mr Rogers

39 posted on 06/22/2014 5:15:38 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Biggirl

I don’t know . The word Catholic is like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Day after day, after day.


40 posted on 06/22/2014 5:16:01 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: defconw

Or rather they have nothing better to do.


41 posted on 06/22/2014 5:16:52 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: defconw
Just Astounding! Sure priests just spring up out of a box! ;)

Ya, that's funny...What's even funnier is that God says clergy are to have a wife...Obviously so they know how to deal with married couples...But who cares what God says, eh???

42 posted on 06/22/2014 5:17:00 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Biggirl

Yep, especially the one “they” just called in. Oh well! We know the truth.


43 posted on 06/22/2014 5:18:08 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: Argus
It’s like saying Stephen Hawking isn’t qualified to discuss black holes because he’s never been inside one.

And that would be a true statement...All Hawking can discuss is the 'theory' of black holes...Just as a never been married man can only discuss his 'theory' of marriage...

44 posted on 06/22/2014 5:19:14 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool

45 posted on 06/22/2014 5:20:05 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: narses

:)


46 posted on 06/22/2014 5:26:51 PM PDT by defconw (LUTFA!)
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To: BipolarBob

And.....???

The point is that celibacy is a Biblicaly-based DISCIPLINE, and not a DOGMA.

It is subject to change, and not a requirement.

You will find married priests in the Roman Catholic Church, specifically from 2 sources. The first is that eastern churches permit married priests, but not married bishops. Additionally, former Episcopal/Anglican priests who have converted to Catholicism have been allowed to be re-ordained.

Yes, the door is open.

Sorry to take the wind out of your sails.


47 posted on 06/22/2014 5:32:49 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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To: NYer
I give this order in all the churches." This coincides with the admonition of Jesus to follow the vocation given by God, whether celibacy (Mt 19:12) or marriage.

And that's another area where you religion fails...

Paul was not speaking to potential clergy...It was a proclamation to anyone who may be called to celibacy...To let them know that God calls some people (and obviously few) to that vocation...

Buy unlike the Catholic religion, these people would know that God called them to celibacy...

In the Catholic religion, one can go thru 3-4 years of philosophy education and then a few years of seminary before he has to make up his mind whether he can go with the rigors of celibacy...

After all those years in prep work to become a priest, it's likely one who questions his ability to become celibate is not going to throw away all that invested time but will go into the priesthood regardless of his celibacy convictions...

And, because of the anti-marriage position of your religion, it's an automatic magnet for sodomites...

48 posted on 06/22/2014 5:36:02 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: NYer
Why would any Christian assume that a man striving to emulate Christ in the flesh would have nothing to offer about the nature of love?

It's not about the nature of love. It's about making a marriage work.

Experience is the issue.

It's easy to have all the answers until you've been there.

49 posted on 06/22/2014 5:37:20 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith....)
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To: Iscool

And what chapter and verse would that be found?

You are aware that celibacy is Bible-based, right?

Celibacy is neither dogmatic, nor universal. There are some (few) married priest, and it is possible that the discipline of celibacy may be changed.

So, quit parroting Oral Roberts or Jimmy Swaggart and do a little more research.


50 posted on 06/22/2014 5:42:36 PM PDT by SpirituTuo
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