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Catholic convert & historian: For evangelicals, beliefs more important than how one lives (vanity)
Posted on 06/24/2014 7:35:21 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
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To: Faith Presses On
If I truly believe something that has a direct effect on how I live, I WILL live differently than if I did not believe, or since before I believed ... and it WILL be as important AS my belief.
2
posted on
06/24/2014 7:39:38 AM PDT
by
knarf
(brooklyn bridge)
To: Faith Presses On
"For evangelical Christians, what one believes is more important than how one lives." This is a quote taken from quite a long article posted in this forum called "A Protestant Historian Discovers the Catholic Church," by A. David Anders, Ph.D. I find it to be a very serious claim, even an accusation, and so it should be addressed. I'm not worried.
3
posted on
06/24/2014 7:41:56 AM PDT
by
Alex Murphy
("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
To: Faith Presses On
“For evangelical Christians, what one believes is more important than how one lives.”
As a protestant Christian, I would say that in a general way that is true. It is faith that saves, not works, though faith without works is dead.
Living “right” will definitely make your life more enjoyable, but it won’t get you a centimater closer to salvation. Conversely, admitting you’re lost and trusting (believing) in God’s saving grace is the ONLY path to salvation. Works will follow. More with some than with others.
Works are not what saves, but salvation will result in a modification of your life. If you are concerned that your actions are risking your salvation, you’re doing it wrong.
To: Faith Presses On
The claim / headline is a nice broad-brush statement. It could cut both ways, depending on the individual.
Discuss: For catholics, beliefs more important than how one lives
5
posted on
06/24/2014 7:51:14 AM PDT
by
AD from SpringBay
(http://jonah2eight.blogspot.com/)
To: Faith Presses On
I find it to be a very serious claim, even an accusation, and so it should be addressed.
A person can loosely follow a true religion. So, shall we address the claim/accusation by examining our actions?
A person can devoutly follow a false religion. Shall we examine our beliefs?
Or shall we examine both our beliefs and our actions, and measure them against the Scriptures, rather than pit one against the other in a deceptive dialectic?
6
posted on
06/24/2014 7:52:42 AM PDT
by
LearsFool
("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
Comment #7 Removed by Moderator
To: LearsFool
Or shall we examine both our beliefs and our actions, and measure them against the Scriptures, rather than pit one against the other in a deceptive dialectic?You have hit upon the root of the problem. There are numerous both/ands in the Scripture, and very few either/ors (one of which is, of course, you either are saved or you are damned). The dialectical approach, which is nothing more than disguised Gnosticism in the West and undisguised Taoism in the East, always leads to fighting based on unnecessary claims of superiority--"it's faith!" "no, it's works!" being one of the most common within Christianity. James gives the answer: you show your faith by your works (2:18), and when you fail, you confess your faults one to another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed (5:16).
8
posted on
06/24/2014 8:00:03 AM PDT
by
chajin
("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
To: Faith Presses On
So, does this explain why Catholic states elect Democrats?
9
posted on
06/24/2014 8:07:27 AM PDT
by
aimhigh
(1 John 3:23)
To: chajin
10
posted on
06/24/2014 8:08:26 AM PDT
by
wordsofearnest
(Proper aim of giving is to put the recipient in a state where he no longer needs it. C.S. Lewis)
To: cuban leaf
Yes, it is faith that saves, and that even comes “by grace” in that it is a gift, so no one can boast. But in being reconciled to God, we come to see sin for what it actually is, rather than how we too often see it, as Satan wants us to - harmless, unavoidable, our choice, even enjoyable and “good.” Evil becomes good. But in becoming new creatures in Christ, if we have, then sin grieves us as it does God, and our concern then is not wanting to grieve Him and harm others and ourselves by doing it.
To: chajin
12
posted on
06/24/2014 8:10:54 AM PDT
by
LearsFool
("Thou shouldst not have been old, till thou hadst been wise.")
To: Faith Presses On
Why don’t you discuss this on the original thread?
13
posted on
06/24/2014 8:11:24 AM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: DManA
14
posted on
06/24/2014 8:12:16 AM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: LearsFool
Once we become new creatures in Christ, then our thoughts, words, and actions should always be examined. Paul says for us to examine ourselves. We are to open ourselves, too, to the Lord’s correction. The Lord is concerned with our hearts, and we can only recognize that there is an area of our lives that the Lord wants to work on and is bringing it to our attention, by looking at our works through the light of His truth. Then we can surrender it to Him and He can change us and grow our faith in that area.
To: Salvation
To: Faith Presses On
17
posted on
06/24/2014 8:20:35 AM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Faith Presses On
I find it to be a very serious claim, even an accusation, and so it should be addressed. Why? Statements from converts are generally disparaging of whatever they left behind and full of blind worship of what they have embraced.
18
posted on
06/24/2014 8:23:39 AM PDT
by
Harmless Teddy Bear
(Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
To: Faith Presses On
We are saved by faith alone, not works. This biblical statement is lost on Catholics since they have been taught by their priests that actions are more important than faith. I know many Catholics who believe their works will save them. This is a lie from Hell.
The Lord knows what is in my heart. He also knows that I am a sinner. That is why he came to Earth and died on the Cross - because of my sins. I will continue to be a sinner since only Jesus was perfect. My life is changed because of my faith, but I still need Him for the forgiveness of my sins. No matter how hard I work to be better and to do good, I will remain a sinner.
19
posted on
06/24/2014 8:24:30 AM PDT
by
Dr. Thorne
("Don't be afraid. Just believe." - Mark 5:36)
To: DManA
The ultimate purpose of this on my part wasn’t to be divisive, but to examine the things being considered here, including divisions that actually already exist, in the light of God’s truth.
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