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Pope Francis meets with Franciscans of the Immaculate
Examiner ^ | June 26, 2014 | David Oatney

Posted on 06/26/2014 5:05:23 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o

Father Frederico Lombardi, the Vatican's official spokesman, revealed in an official statement regarding the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate on Wednesday that a house is being sought in Rome for members of the religious order studying at the Vatican's Pontifical colleges and universities. The news that community living quarters are desired for members of the order are a clear indication that relations between the Congregation and the FFI are warming significantly.

Father Lombardi revealed that the seminarians of the order were received in private audience at the St. Martha Residence to meet with the Holy Father, Pope Francis, along with Father Fidinzio Volpi, the Commissioner appointed by the Vatican to supervise the reform of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate. The FFI is known around the world for the preference of its members for the Tridentine Mass, as celebrated according to the 1962 edition of the Roman Missal.

This practice is not only normally permitted, but is more widely used in the Church today than at any time since the 1960's because of the apostolic letter of Pope Benedict XVI Sommorum Pontificum, which permitted the wider celebration of the "old rite" within the Church. However, the FFI came under criticism because some houses were celebrating the 1962 Rite exclusively, and were not saying Mass at all according to the current rite in use. At present, while the FFI are under the control of an apostolic delegate, its priests must ask permission to celebrate Mass in the Extraordinary Form.

The meeting between Pope Francis and FFI seminarians this week may indicate that this more strict supervision may soon come to an end, and that the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate may be able to return to wider use of the Extraordinary Form for themselves and the faithful that they serve.

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: ffi; pontificalcollege; volpi
Sounds hopeful.

(Had to cut it very slightly to do the required 300-word excerpt.)

1 posted on 06/26/2014 5:05:23 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o
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To: piusv; ebb tide; Ciexyz; BlatherNaut; mosesdapoet; Brian Kopp DPM; Salvation

Of FFI interest.


2 posted on 06/26/2014 5:09:01 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Oremus.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
the apostolic letter of Pope Benedict XVI Sommorum Pontificum, which permitted the wider celebration of the "old rite" within the Church.

Absolutely nuts, crazy, demented, disturbed, mad, sick, unbalanced, unhinged, insane, screwball, and softheaded that any permission needs to be asked of anybody at any time.

3 posted on 06/26/2014 5:18:19 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: steve86

I agree.


4 posted on 06/26/2014 5:52:30 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Speechless.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o; piusv; BlatherNaut; Brian Kopp DPM; Salvation
Thanks for the ping. Have you seen this more informative article?

The Passion of the Franciscans of the Immaculate - 11 months The Pope receives a delegation of the FI - and an introductory explanation with some exclusive information UPDATE: Holy See Press Office

5 posted on 06/26/2014 7:30:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I forgot demonically inspired.


6 posted on 06/26/2014 7:34:19 PM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: steve86

Why the name calling?


7 posted on 06/27/2014 3:15:51 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Could it be that Pope Francis wants peace in the Church?


8 posted on 06/27/2014 3:17:19 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: All

Maybe to get permission to celibrate the TLM as a special rite in the Church.


9 posted on 06/27/2014 3:18:55 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thanks, Mrs. Don-o.


10 posted on 06/27/2014 5:27:32 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Biggirl
Could be! :o)

And by the way, a priest ought not need special permission from his Bishop or Superior to celebrate the TLM; no more than you would need permission to pray the Liturgy of the Hours or any other Catholic sacred rite.

I'm not denying the role of the Bishop as chief liturgist and as the priests' lawful superior with the duty to require that things be done in good order. I'm just saying it should not be treated like something you have to argue about or justify. That is senseless.

11 posted on 06/27/2014 5:33:26 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Oremus.)
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To: ebb tide; Mrs. Don-o

I suspect the meeting was an attempt at damage control. FFI seminarians are apparently jumping ship, and some members are reportedly requesting release from their pontifical vows.


12 posted on 06/27/2014 5:40:18 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It's my understanding, that even under Summorum Pontificum, priests do not have the right to say the TLM without permission under all circumstances.
13 posted on 06/27/2014 5:52:09 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Biggirl

The whole idea that there is even the idea of “getting permission” to say the mass that has been the mass for hundreds of years. I will never understand how anyone can say that with a straight face.


14 posted on 06/27/2014 5:54:01 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
I believe you're right.

I certainly do NOT want wholesale revolt against the bishops' and religious superiors' lawful authority to control liturgy within their dioceses or orders. What I object to is creating barriers to the growth and flourishing of TLM communities.

The TLM is not a museum piece and Catholics who love the TLM are not like Civil War reenactors who want to pretend they're in the past. The TLM is not old: it is timeless. It is eternal. There should be the broadest liberty within the bounds of good order. Ecclesiastical superior should be delighted to foster it, and see it done with devotion.

15 posted on 06/27/2014 6:00:23 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Oremus.)
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To: piusv; Biggirl
In Biggirl's defence, let me say that superiors have the duty to make sure everything is done in good order, and that's going to involve the bishop's approval.

But tht approval should be routine. "Good order" ought to included a grateful joy that more people are loving and participating in this beautiful liturgy, which is or ought to be respected as the heart of our culture and heritage.

The default setting should be "Yes, Deo gratias."

16 posted on 06/27/2014 6:06:52 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ( Introibo ad altare Dei.)
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To: ebb tide
The Pope said that although [Vatican II] has been pastoral, it contains doctrinal elements and is a Catholic council

So, it isn't "just pastoral" in nature. Interesting, indeed.

17 posted on 06/27/2014 6:07:48 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Mrs. Don-o; Biggirl

My post wasn’t only directed at Biggirl’s comments. It was more general in nature based on the constant talk about “getting permission”. I understand what you are saying, but I still find it crazy that the TLM has been relegated to the back of the proverbial bus in favor of a Protestant “mass”.


18 posted on 06/27/2014 6:25:11 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv; Biggirl
If you can call the Novus Ordo a "Protestant" Mass, you can call the Vetus Ordo an "Orthodox" Mass.

Actually, there's less reason to call the N.O. "Protestant," since the N.O. still has men in valid orders pronouncing valid consecrations, you still have the Sacrifice, the Transubstantiation and the Sacrament. See what I mean? Catholic and Protestant are quite different in their central liturgical aspects, as most on both sides would justly agree.

19 posted on 06/27/2014 7:45:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ( Introibo ad altare Dei.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

That still avoids the point that the Catholic mass for hundreds of years has been relegated to the back of the bus.

And so many Catholics see nothing wrong with that whatsoever.....including the hierarchy.


20 posted on 06/27/2014 7:58:17 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
I'm not ignoring that. I think I covered it in post #15.

What I object to is creating barriers to the growth and flourishing of TLM communities...

The TLM is not a museum piece and Catholics who love the TLM are not like Civil War reenactors who want to pretend they're in the past. The TLM is not old: it is timeless. It is eternal. There should be the broadest liberty within the bounds of good order. Ecclesiastical superior should be delighted to foster it, and see it done with devotion."

I'm not slighting that point -- unless I'm supposed to repeat every point, in every post.

21 posted on 06/27/2014 8:02:31 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ( Introibo ad altare Dei.)
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To: piusv

“That still avoids the point that the Catholic mass for hundreds of years has been relegated to the back of the bus.”

Hundreds of years? What?


22 posted on 06/27/2014 8:52:09 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Mrs. Don-o; piusv; Biggirl
The ambiance and the experience and the demeanor of the laity -- mostly subjective things -- have changed to give the appearance of a protestant service. Along with the inclusion of female laity on the holy side of the altar rail (if it exists) and versus populum.

This is most apparent to an old-time Catholic who attends an NO Mass for the first time. Almost invariably, a comment about protestant character follows.

Note I have not included description of any of the abuses which are so prevalent.

23 posted on 06/27/2014 9:39:21 AM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

It’s not Protestant per se, but reflects a mode of liturgical expression which is more closely aligned with Protestant theology than was the case prior to the changes. Have you read the Ottaviani Intervention?

Some relevant excerpts from “Letter On Novus Ordo Missae” -
Cardinal Ottaviani:

“2. The pastoral reasons adduced to support such a grave break with tradition, even if such reasons could be regarded as holding good in the face of doctrinal considerations, do not seem to us sufficient. The innovations in the Novus Ordo and the fact that all that is of perennial value finds only a minor place, if it subsists at all, could well turn into a certainty the suspicions already prevalent, alas, in many circles, that truths which have always been believed by the Christian people, can be changed or ignored without infidelity to that sacred deposit of doctrine to which the Catholic faith is bound for ever. Recent reforms have amply demonstrated that fresh changes in the liturgy could lead to nothing but complete bewilderment on the part of the faithful who are already showing signs of restiveness and of an indubitable lessening of faith....

...VII—The Alienation Of The Orthodox

The Apostolic Constitution makes explicit reference to a wealth of piety and teaching in the Novus Ordo borrowed from the Eastern Churches. The result—utterly remote from and even opposed to the inspiration of the oriental Liturgies—can only repel the faithful of the Eastern Rites. What, in truth, do these ecumenical options amount to? Basically to the multiplicity of anaphora (but nothing approaching their beauty and complexity), to the presence of deacons, to Communion sub utraque specie.

Against this, the Novus Ordo would appear to have been deliberately shorn of everything which in the Liturgy of Rome came close to those of the East.

Moreover in abandoning its unmistakable and immemorial Roman character, the Novus Ordo lost what was spiritually precious of its own. Its place has been taken by elements which bring it closer only to certain other reformed liturgies (not even those closest to Catholicism) and which debase it at the same time. The East will be ever more alienated, as it already has been by the preceding liturgical reforms.

By way of compensation the new Liturgy will be the delight of the various groups who, hovering on the verge of apostasy, are wreaking havoc in the Church of God, poisoning her organism and undermining her unity of doctrine, worship, morals and discipline in a spiritual crisis without precedent....”


24 posted on 06/27/2014 9:43:21 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: steve86

I see your point, steve86.


25 posted on 06/27/2014 9:44:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When I grow up, I'm gonna settle down, chew honeycomb & drive a tractor, grow things in the ground.)
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To: BlatherNaut

I’m -— from what I know of him -— a fan of Ottaviani, though I haven’t read as much from him as I would like.


26 posted on 06/27/2014 9:45:30 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (When I grow up, I'm gonna settle down, chew honeycomb & drive a tractor, grow things in the ground.)
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To: piusv
So, it isn't "just pastoral" in nature. Interesting, indeed.

What I read previously it is that the "doctrinal elements" are just repetition of standing doctrine.

27 posted on 06/27/2014 9:48:44 AM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: vladimir998

Re-read. I think you misinterpreted.


28 posted on 06/27/2014 9:49:33 AM PDT by piusv
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To: steve86
What I read previously it is that the "doctrinal elements" are just repetition of standing doctrine.

Except it isn't.

29 posted on 06/27/2014 9:50:19 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Well, please translate/quote “what isn’t” and I’ll stand (kneel) corrected.


30 posted on 06/27/2014 9:54:44 AM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: steve86

How about the Church doctrine about relationship with the Muslims?


31 posted on 06/27/2014 9:59:41 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Sorry - forgot the link to post #24 quotes.

http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/reformof.htm


32 posted on 06/27/2014 10:25:08 AM PDT by BlatherNaut
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To: All

Has anyone read the book by Mike Aquilina called “The Mass of the Early Christians” ?

“The Mass of the Early Christians

What did the first Christians believe about the Eucharist? How did they follow Jesus’ command, Do this in remembrance of me? How did they celebrate the Lord’s Day? What would they recognize in today’s Mass? The answers may surprise you.

In The Mass of the Early Christians, author Mike Aquilina reveals the Church’s most ancient Eucharistic beliefs and practices. Using the words of the early Christians themselves — from many documents and inscriptions — Aquilina traces the Mass s history from Jesus’ lifetime through the fourth century. The Mass stood at the center of the Church’s life, evident in the Scriptures as well as the earliest Christian sermons, letters, artwork, tombstones, and architecture. Even the pagans bore witness to the Mass in the records of their persecutions.

In these legacies from the early Church, you’ll hear and taste and see the same worship Catholics know today: the altar, the priests, the chalice of wine, the bread, the Sign of the Cross…the Lord, have mercy …the Holy, holy, holy …and the Communion.

You’ll see vividly how Jesus followed through on his promise to be with us always, until the end of time.”

I have a copy of the book in question.


33 posted on 06/27/2014 2:34:04 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

So the Catholic Church’s liturgy was wrong for hundreds of years. Sounds Protestant to me.


34 posted on 06/27/2014 4:29:11 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

No, rather how the mass was in the first few centuries of the Church.


35 posted on 06/27/2014 4:34:19 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Wanting to return to so-called “antiquity” is a Protestant notion.


36 posted on 06/27/2014 4:35:45 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Just your opinion and your opinion only.


37 posted on 06/27/2014 4:39:52 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Why do you think Vatican II resulted in a massive change in liturgy that reflects so-called “antiquity”?

Because Protestants gave input into it.

And that’s a fact Jack, not an opinion.


38 posted on 06/27/2014 4:44:12 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Biggirl

Wow that sounds very interesting. And it’s available for Kindle.


39 posted on 06/27/2014 4:44:14 PM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

Yep!

I always wondered what the mass in the early Church was like.


40 posted on 06/27/2014 4:46:54 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: piusv

Rather be THANKFUL that you can do the TLM, you have the clearance to attend. Why do you still complain?

I consider the TLM a part of the wonderful rites in the Church.


41 posted on 06/27/2014 4:49:52 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Biggirl

Your remark disgusts me.

Be thankful. Yes, let’s be “thankful” that the Vatican II Church has “allowed” the poor Traditional Catholic slobs to have their fashion, I mean, TLM albeit not frequently nor conveniently.

Isn’t it wonderful?? /sarcasm


42 posted on 06/27/2014 4:55:06 PM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

Well is it not a fact that there are parishes that do offer them?


43 posted on 06/27/2014 6:00:28 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank-you and God Bless!


44 posted on 06/27/2014 6:28:03 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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