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Iraq’s Christians See Putin As Savior
The Daily Beast ^ | 6/29/14 | Peter Schwartzstein

Posted on 06/29/2014 9:03:24 AM PDT by marshmallow

Reeling from regional developments and disillusioned with the West, some Iraqi Christians are looking to Russia for support.

After a decade of church bombings, targeted killings, and anti-Christian workplace discrimination, Ramy Youssef has finally tired of Iraq’s halting progress and is intent on emigrating.

“I don’t want to leave. I don’t want these terrorists to do what no one’s ever done before: push Assyrians out of our historic homeland, but I can’t work like this,” said the fresh-faced IT technician, his voice rising, as he sipped tea in his cousin’s Erbil liquor store a month after death threats forced him to abandon his business in Baghdad.

Youssef will be the last of his immediate family to jet off—joining roughly two-thirds of Iraq’s pre-war population of 1.5 million Christians who’ve fled abroad or trudged north to Kurdistan. Before he goes, though, he’s keen to set the record straight and settle some old scores.

“This is America’s fault. It’s the Muslims who are killing us, but this never would have happened if the West hadn’t turned our lives upside down,” he fumed. “Maybe we’ll be able to return one day if we have proper allies.”

Enter Putin stage right.

As far as some of his Iraqi co-religionists are concerned, there’s a ready-made alternative to American influence out there and they’re frantically trying to solicit its support.

“Russia proved through history that it’s the only defender of Christians,” said Ashur Giwargis, who heads the Assyrian Patriotic Movement (APM), which for two years has energetically lobbied the Kremlin to support an independent Assyrian Christian state in northern Iraq.

Until recently, the Beirut-based exile and his colleagues, who are scattered among the global Iraqi diaspora, had little to show for their efforts, but in January, as Western-Russian tensions escalated over Ukraine, Giwargis was summoned to Moscow........

(Excerpt) Read more at thedailybeast.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Islam; Orthodox Christian
KEYWORDS: iraqichristians; putin

1 posted on 06/29/2014 9:03:24 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

I would trust him more than I would Hussein obamar.


2 posted on 06/29/2014 9:07:15 AM PDT by boycott
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To: marshmallow

Obama really has improved our standing abroad, hasn’t he?


3 posted on 06/29/2014 9:07:48 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: boycott

At least Putin supports Christians where as obammy is a moose limb.


4 posted on 06/29/2014 9:08:16 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: marshmallow

How the world has changed in the past few years!

Who would ever thought after being attacked by Muslims in 9/11 and after that we would become a nation that would protect out attackers (Muslims) more than those who founded this great country.


5 posted on 06/29/2014 9:09:23 AM PDT by aquila48
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe Boucher

At least Putin supports Christians where as obammy is a moose limb.


Putin bailed obammy out of us going to war in Syria. Maybe Putin will help king obamay out of this crisis too.

If there were muzzies being slaughtered by Christians, you know obamar would be all over it.


7 posted on 06/29/2014 9:10:37 AM PDT by boycott
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To: aquila48
"Islam is a religion of peace." -- U.S. President Barack Hussein Obama

Wait a minute ... something doesn't look right there, eh?

8 posted on 06/29/2014 9:10:42 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: Viennacon
Obama really has improved our standing abroad, hasn’t he?

The world really has been turned upside down. There was a FR article earlier today about Iraq getting Russian jets. I at first thought it was a misprint, and they meant Iran. Nope, it's Iraq.

And if Putin can help Iraq's Christians, I will cheer him every step of the way. Because no one else seems to care.

9 posted on 06/29/2014 9:11:32 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Well, yes, a couple of things. First that Mad Mo’s cult is a peaceful one, and that it was Bammy who said that. It was actually, “W”.


10 posted on 06/29/2014 9:13:20 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: Alberta's Child
"Islam is a religion of peace." -- U.S. President Barack Hussein Obama

Don't forget that Bush II said much the same thing.

11 posted on 06/29/2014 9:13:52 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: Leaning Right; COBOL2Java
I was being sarcastic, folks. That quote IS from President George W. Bush, not Obama.

When they write the history books about this era, they'll have a hard time figuring out which U.S. president was the first Muslim to infiltrate the White House.

12 posted on 06/29/2014 9:16:25 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: marshmallow

Christians now looking to Putin and Russia as their champion and savior.

Pervs, deviants and homos looking to Obama and America as their champion and savior.

Modern reality.


13 posted on 06/29/2014 9:16:39 AM PDT by greene66
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To: Leaning Right

Meanwhile, China is moving to claim sovereignty of Okinawa. Imagine those Okinawa Life commercials with some bayonets.

The world is spiraling.


14 posted on 06/29/2014 9:17:18 AM PDT by Viennacon
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To: boycott
I would trust him more than I would Hussein obamar.

not an unreasonable position...and that is a pretty damn sad state of affairs.

15 posted on 06/29/2014 9:18:40 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: Alberta's Child

I kind of figured you were. That’s why I added the bit about Mad Mo. :-)


16 posted on 06/29/2014 9:19:49 AM PDT by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: Leaning Right

The Iraqi know their country a lot better than we do. We wanted them to use M-16s but AK-47/74 are more suited to the harsh terrain and discipline (maintenance, learning, etc.)

Iraq flew the Mig 21, 23, 25, 29 and Su-27 when we invaded. The planes are durable and easy to maintain. You don’t need a multi-million dollar fly by wire aircraft to drop bombs on ISIS.


17 posted on 06/29/2014 9:21:03 AM PDT by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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To: boycott

Another good analogy, who do you trust Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Eric Holder, Obama, or Putin?


18 posted on 06/29/2014 9:21:04 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: marshmallow
This is how they see Obama....


19 posted on 06/29/2014 9:24:29 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: COBOL2Java

LOL.


20 posted on 06/29/2014 9:26:47 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: aquila48
I saw signs of Stockholm Syndrome soon after 9-11 among soft-headed libs and who would later be called low-information voters. The former were sure the Muzzies were victims and the later were curious about a people they weren't aware of suddenly determining their fate. That curiosity led to respect and even emulation. (e.g., food and even music suddenly had a middle-eastern flare.) I know one or two "born again Arabs" (got their "Arab Up" after 9-11) who I suspect admire the muzzies and foolishly think they'll be treated differently than the rest of the infidels under the Caliphate.

Okay, maybe I sound like mad man but 9-11 cost me more than one friendship.

21 posted on 06/29/2014 10:12:59 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Alberta's Child
I was being sarcastic, folks.

Well played, and point taken!

22 posted on 06/29/2014 10:13:24 AM PDT by Leaning Right (Why am I holding this lantern? I am looking for the next Reagan.)
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To: kingattax

ping


23 posted on 06/29/2014 10:46:26 AM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Oratam

Indeed.

Sub shops have traded Meatballs and Philly Steak on Italian Bread for falafel, couscous, hummos, and tabouli in “Pockets” AKA Syrian bread.

And don’t even talk about school lunches!


24 posted on 06/29/2014 10:50:27 AM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: marshmallow

If Putin wanted to restore the Orthodox Christian Byzantine empire with himself as Emperor, removing the Islamic interlopers from all the formerly Christian lands they subjugated by the sword, I wouldn’t have a particular problem with that.


25 posted on 06/29/2014 11:24:08 AM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order.)
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To: Joe Boucher; boycott; All

During the Soviet era the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, the current ‘Metropolitan of Moscow and All of Russia’, Metropolitan Kurill was an agent for the KGB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Kirill_of_Moscow

There are those that say Kurill apologized for his KGB involvement saying he was coerced but I remain suspicious, always have my guard up. As Ronald Reagan said “Trust But Verify”.

Many of us here in the west believe the Soviets banned all Chistianity; not so. They banned all Christian sects they did not control and they imprisoned many innocent Chistians who were deemed enemies of the state. They did indeed destroy many Christian churches but they also used the Russian Orthodox church for monitoring suspected enemies of the state.

The KGB pulled the strings behind the Russian Orthodox Church inside Russia and may still be controlling. Putin was a KGB agent. He is not a Christian but he will use any lie that yields him more power including wearing a crucifix around his neck and participating in appearances with the head of the Russian Orthodox Church inside Russia.

Notice that I use the qualifier ‘inside Russia’ when referring to the Russian Orthodox Church.

A little history: after the Russian revolution the Russian Orthodox Church split in two, the Russian Orthodox Church (ROC) controlled from Moscow and the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia (ROCOR). The reason was that Tsar Nicholas II was the head of the Orthodox Church in his time and ROCOR was established to continue the true line of descent and to suspend and void ties with the ROC controlled by Bolsheviks in Moscow.

Further background: Tsar Nicholas II was also the wealthiest ruler known to the world in his time and was the head of the ROC with a membership rivaling or surpassing that of the Catholic Church. The Russian Orthodox was an offshoot aligned with the Greek Orthodox and became so prevalent over centuries as to become the de facto leader of the Greek Orthodox and all other Orthodox so that in a sense all Orthodox Christians looked to Moscow for guidance. The Orthodox were also known as Eastern Catholics and were united with the Roman Catholic Church (RCC; which did not exist separately) under Roman Emperor Constantine. Before the existence of the RCC, western catholics were represented by the Bishop of Rome under Constantine and the Pope today is still referred to as the Bishop of Rome by the Orthodox who believe they are the true Church as established by Peter and Paul in Asia Minor and Greece. Today there is a concerted effort to reunite the RCC with the Orthodox Church and there is an ongoing merging of the ROC with ROCOR. But as I will explain there is still almost a century after the October Revolution a great deal of mistrust.

The Russian Orthodox Church under Tsar Nicholas II was the most most vast and wealthy internationally. They held title to all the Holy Land Sacred Sites and held title to thousands and thousands of Orthodox Churches and Monasteries globally. An Orthodox Christian in good standing can always find sanctuary anywhere in the world on every continent including Antarctica. Other peoples not in good standing or not orthodox are always accommodated by ROCOR by reference from another Orthodox because ROCOR strives to be truly Christ-like.

How I know this and how it ties into America is as follows: when the Bolsheviks murdered their way to power and then decimated the White Army, they left behind millions of orphans who were cared for by Orthodox priests. Fifteen thousand orphans of high ranking White Army Russians were slated for murder and were smuggled out of Russia in the mid 1920s via the Trans Siberian Railroad to Shanghai China where they nearly starved to death or died from water and food borne illness.

A Russian Prince who had escaped Moscow for Paris and then came to New York led an effort to sponsor the Russian orphans in Shanghai who were under the care of only two Orthodox priests and many women from the Orthodox sisterhood. One of these priests was Father John who was later canonized by the ROCOR Synod in New York and all of ROCOR worldwide.

http://orthodoxwiki.org/John_(Maximovitch)_the_Wonderworker

I emphasize that these Orthodox Saints are every bit as faithful, strong and powerful in spirit as St. Peter and St. Paul. I am proud to have met St. John in Seattle and the people around him. I was humbled to my core to see firsthand the spirituality of this priest and to hear from hundreds about his service to mankind everywhere. This community is extremely important to conservatives and Americans now and for the future.

The sponsoring Prince was able to procure two ocean going vessels to take the more than 15,000 orphans from Shanghai to San Francisco. The ships were old nearly dilapidated and it is said to be a miracle that they were able to cross the Pacific without sinking. When the ships arrived in San Francisco, there were too many orphans for the sponsoring families and churches capable of taking them in, so half of them were sent to Seattle.

To this day there are over 100,000 descendants of these White Russians living in San Francisco and the Pacific Northwest who hold faithfully to their Orthodox heritage and who are spiritually fused with the spirit of America and the US Constitution. It is from these people that I greatly learned of the deception of liberalism and the progressives who are seen as a continued front of Bolshevism; after once shaking the hand of Ronald Reagan in 1991 it is from these people that I became an unwavering conservative after a chance meeting with them in Seattle and after a massive wave of migration of Soviet era ‘New Russians’ after the fall of the Soviet Union. I have many interesting eye witness and firsthand accounts to convey of how the American White Russians viewed the newly arrived Soviet Russians. All in all there were more than 40,000 Soviet era immigrant Russians to the Seattle area of King County Washington and when tallied with descendents of White Army Russians the total are between 150,000 and 200,000. So it’s not a small community by any means and the interface and interaction between the two groups is vital to understand.

The history of White Russians is heroic. Martyred St. Elizabeth who as the most beautiful granddaughter of Queen Victoria and Grand Duchess under Tsar Nicholas II

http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/duchess.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Elisabeth_of_Hesse_and_by_Rhine_(1864%E2%80%931918)

became an Orthodox nun of ROCOR and who helped countless people escape the murderous communism following the revolution and who herself was later caught by the Bolsheviks and thrown down a mineshaft to her death.

Most heroes of Orthodox history were not royal or wealthy. I mention St. Elizabeth because here was a women of incredible beauty that could have returned to England and lived a life of vaulted splendor and yet she chose to pledge her life to ROCOR. That should tell everyone about the value of this Church to humanity because she chose to put her life at risk in its service and ended up paying the ultimate price.

Not all heroes from White Russian regions were Christian. One in particular was Jewish. An American born into a White Russian region of Russian Poland was I claim the single most important person behind stopping the Soviets. That would be a person who interviewed me in 1979 and approved my selection into his naval engineering group, Admiral Hyman G. Rickover:

http://www.rickover.com/

http://books.google.com/books?id=VVwJ9hOTGMMC&pg=PA1&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

The Soviets confirmed that the single most important factor in their world aggression and goal for world conquest was the existence of subsurface nuclear missile launching submarines. To understand them is to understand the minds of merciless killers. They were killers who thought nothing of morality or justice and they thought nothing of launching a nuclear missile attack on America and consequently killing tens upon tens of millions of Americans in a first strike on American missile silos that would be followed up with a land invasion. But they balked because they could not predict where those nuclear missile carrying Polaris submarines were; they could not be assured their side would still exist following their first strike. And those submarines existed only because of one man’s determination, Admiral Rickover.

http://www.people.vcu.edu/~rsleeth/Rickover.html

The reason I bring up Admiral Rickover is because he exemplifies the fierce passion and drive that descendants of White Russians have for protecting the United States. Even though Rickover hated a great many things about US military bureaucracy and the military industrial complex, he was driven by patriotism of a country that enabled him to rise from the son of a poverty stricken Jewish immigrant to a Four Star Admiral with powers that extended into Congress and the White House. This is the same spirit I have witnessed in the White Russian communities throughout the USA.

Note I use the adjective ‘White’ when referring to White Russian communities. It has nothing to do with ethnicity but has everything to do with which side the Russians fell on, the Tsarist side or the Bolshevik side. Because we are essentially drawn up in their continuing struggle right here in America with it taking form between progressives and conservatives. We can all agree that the democrat party today is as close to Bolshevism as they ever were and the conflict has drawn the GOP to the center and even left of center, so much so that there is an open civil war between ruling class republicans and its base. To understand how best to understand and treat the Left and that includes KGB trained Vladimir Putin, it is wise to understand those who have history with them, the White Russians.

There are many Soviet Russian immigrants to the USA especially since the fall of the USSR. They are not all to be under suspicion but many still long for the days of the empire before ‘Gorbachev broke everything’. In other words there are many who still have loyalty and allegiance to Moscow. But I would not say they are a danger to us, but they have found their way into media in a big way especially in Europe where the USSR had invested hugely in creating propaganda conduits. But I draw attention to them because I am cautioning that when we want to understand the Russian way of thinking and the mind of someone like Putin, we must be careful to avoid asking Soviet era Russians and instead concentrate on White Russians.

I write this for all on this thread to reach out to Russian-American communities to get a clear picture on Russia today, a country led by Putin, a country giving sanctuary to Edward Snowden.

Do I agree with Putin? On restricting homosexual rights and seeming support of Christianity, yes. But I still view him as an enemy who I can use as an enemy of my enemy. But importantly, I will use Putin for my conservative ends, he will never use me.

Do I agree with what Snowden did? Yes and no. He needed to escape the ruling oligarchy that now occupies Washington, DC and New York. But Putin only took him in to use as a propaganda prop. Hopefully, Snowden is adapting and having a satisfying life. The fact is Putin loves what the NSA is doing as long as he can find a way to control it.

Reach out to a ROCOR meeting and ask to have a coffee. Ask them about Putin and Obama. You will find people that are very conservative minded who will tell you exactly how to view and handle matters of the Kremlin and its influence in America. You will be enriched by it and come away more knowledgeable and capable of how to handle all things Russian. Be careful with Soviet era Russians, they easily dupe people and are often still brainwashed and loyal to the old USSR. Remember that a lie to a Soviet era Russian is just a convenient tool to be used when they thing the occasion calls for it.


26 posted on 06/29/2014 2:43:18 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Leaning Right

LOL. Thanks!


27 posted on 06/29/2014 3:07:07 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("What in the wide, wide world of sports is goin' on here?")
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To: marshmallow

Interestingly, it is the Russian Orthodox Church (maybe Putin too) who have provided support for the Syrian Christians under assault by the rebels seeking to overrun Syria.


28 posted on 06/29/2014 6:58:36 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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