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The Pope: We are Christians because we belong to the Church, "can't love God outside of the Church"
http://www.asianews.it ^ | June 25, 2014 | The Vatican

Posted on 07/03/2014 4:10:21 PM PDT by NKP_Vet

Vatican City (AsiaNews) - "We are not isolated and we are not Christians individually, each on his or her own". Instead, we are all part of the Church, "a large family, where one is welcomed," where "one learns to live as believers and disciples of the Lord Jesus," Pope Francis said.

Speaking in the last general audience before the July break, the Holy Father devoted his catechesis to the Church before a crowd of 35,000 in St Peter's Square. Despite a few drops of rain, he walked extensively among the assembled faithful.

In his address, he warned against those who "think they can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church."

In the Church, he noted, there is no "do it yourself", no "free agents." For him, "Our Christian identity is belonging! We are Christians because we belong to the Church. It is like a surname. If the name is 'I am a Christian', the surname is 'I belong to the Church'." Such sense of belonging was born from the alliance between God and Abraham, to whom he donated a great people for his loyalty.

"God's relationship to his people comes before all of us, it comes from that time," and thus, "in this sense, our thoughts go first, with gratitude, to those who have gone before us and who welcomed us into the Church. No one becomes a Christian by himself! Is this clear? Nobody becomes a Christian by himself. Christians are not made in a lab.

(Excerpt) Read more at asianews.it ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Moral Issues; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholicsonly; christianity; exclusionary; noheaven4you; pope
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1 posted on 07/03/2014 4:10:21 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

Clearly “the church” owns the concession rights on God’s mercy.


2 posted on 07/03/2014 4:12:18 PM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: NKP_Vet

Cult.


3 posted on 07/03/2014 4:18:28 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: shalom aleichem

Yes, buy your purgatory tickets now. Guaranteed by the Pope. Pre-forgiveness tokens also available.

Category 1: Lust, greed, envy. $100
Category 2: Adultery, theft, taking the Lords name in vain. $500
Category 3: Sodomy, Pedophilia, tax evasion. $1000. Free to participating Clergy and Politicians.

Specials: 1 Random 10 commandment forgiveness. $250. Complete the whole set as a collectible.


4 posted on 07/03/2014 4:20:18 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: NKP_Vet

” We are Christians because we belong to the Church”

It’s rather we belong to the Church because we are Christians.

The Church is the Body of Believers and is not incumbent in one organization or denomination.

It is created by God and above and beyond human institutions.

We didn’t build that.


5 posted on 07/03/2014 4:28:24 PM PDT by ifinnegan
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To: NKP_Vet

Geez the pope is short on doctrine (except the Catholic Doctrine ) which is false. Pure crap coming from one of the most powerful men in the world. Lord, forgive him as he knows not what he says.


6 posted on 07/03/2014 4:30:21 PM PDT by fish hawk (no tyrant can remain in power without the consent and cooperation of his victims.)
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To: NKP_Vet

Scripture says that WE the believers are the church.


7 posted on 07/03/2014 4:30:46 PM PDT by stilloftyhenight (...staying home isn't an option.)
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To: NKP_Vet

So why hasn’t he even mentioned the Catholic woman in Sudan that the ROP is trying to have murdered?


8 posted on 07/03/2014 4:31:23 PM PDT by chae (The Lannisters send their regards--Game of Thrones)
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To: NKP_Vet

As a Protestant, I am OK with the Pope on this one. At least he is being honest. The fact he is wrong costs me nothing.


9 posted on 07/03/2014 4:32:28 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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bfl


10 posted on 07/03/2014 4:33:16 PM PDT by mitch5501 ("make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things ye shall never fall")
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To: ifinnegan
It’s rather we belong to the Church because we are Christians. The Church is the Body of Believers and is not incumbent in one organization or denomination. It is created by God and above and beyond human institutions.

They disagree with God on that and that is why they think they are better than us.

11 posted on 07/03/2014 4:34:12 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: NKP_Vet
"We cannot love God without loving our brothers and sisters; we cannot love God outside of the Church; we cannot be in communion with God without being in the Church; and we cannot be good Christians if we are not with all those who seek to follow the Lord Jesus, as one people, one body. And this is the Church."Pope Francis

Bravo! For once, Pope Francis speaks like his pre-VCII predecessors.

12 posted on 07/03/2014 4:34:22 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: NKP_Vet

El popa is either the most misquoted man in history, or is adding basic Bible to his expanding list of ignorance.... Or perhaps both.


13 posted on 07/03/2014 4:34:41 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: NKP_Vet
he warned against those who "think they can have a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside of the communion and the mediation of the Church

Seems to me its been written somewhere that there is one mediator between God and man and that would be Christ Jesus. Don't remember any mention of the church doing this or having to rely on some kind of mediatrix or some such silliness.

14 posted on 07/03/2014 4:35:11 PM PDT by tbpiper
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To: Usagi_yo

Not necessary.


15 posted on 07/03/2014 4:36:03 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NKP_Vet

*facepalm*

This is like saying that the church IS God.


16 posted on 07/03/2014 4:36:40 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: stilloftyhenight

“That we may be one.”


17 posted on 07/03/2014 4:36:55 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: stilloftyhenight

bump!!


18 posted on 07/03/2014 4:37:26 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3175751/posts?page=17#17


19 posted on 07/03/2014 4:39:00 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NKP_Vet

We’re not Christians individually, Pope? Getting in touch with your inner collectivist again, apparently...


20 posted on 07/03/2014 4:40:16 PM PDT by ScottinVA (If it doesn't include border security, it isn't "reform." It's called "amnesty.")
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To: NKP_Vet

Ironically per the catechism itself, protestants are included in his definition of church.

But that doesn’t stop the ranters......


21 posted on 07/03/2014 4:43:02 PM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: wonkowasright; NKP_Vet; zot; NYer; Biggirl; Salvation

Wonk wrote: “Ironically per the catechism itself, protestants are included in his definition of church. But that doesn’t stop the ranters......”

I totally agree. to me the ‘ranters’ here are doing their best to destroy Christian unity and thus are abetting and aiding the work of those who are openly against Christianity.


22 posted on 07/03/2014 4:48:30 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: wonkowasright
Ironically per the catechism itself, protestants are included in his definition of church.

Don't you find it a little uneasy to fib?

23 posted on 07/03/2014 4:50:25 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: Salvation
So, pinging/quoting your own posts adds to its credibility?

Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.

24 posted on 07/03/2014 4:55:26 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Every American should feel outrage at any injustice done to our veterans " -Sarah Palin 5/26/14)
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To: ebb tide

Papa! Papa! Papa! Bravo! Ladies and gentleman, we have a pope, and God bless him!


25 posted on 07/03/2014 4:58:28 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: tbpiper

Faith alone in Christ alone.


26 posted on 07/03/2014 4:59:55 PM PDT by k4gypsyrose
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To: wonkowasright

What “Catechism” do protestants have? The Pope is speaking of the One, True, Church! The Holy Catholic Church, headquartered in Rome.


27 posted on 07/03/2014 5:00:30 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
What “Catechism” do protestants have? The Pope is speaking of the One, True, Church! The Holy Catholic Church, headquartered in Rome.

God, are they that dumb?

28 posted on 07/03/2014 5:05:14 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: k4gypsyrose

Just because we honor the successor of St. Peter, the first Pope, does not mean that we don’t have faith in God.

(Remember that Luther added the word ‘alone’ to the Bible.)


29 posted on 07/03/2014 5:05:17 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: shalom aleichem

“Clearly “the church” owns the concession rights on God’s mercy.”

No, but God sent the Church to be an instrument of His mercy. If it was good enough for Him to establish for that purpose, it’s certainly good enough for anyone who claims to love Him.


30 posted on 07/03/2014 5:06:48 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Karl Spooner

Church. Christ’s Church.


31 posted on 07/03/2014 5:07:10 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: GeronL

The Church is Christ’s Body.


32 posted on 07/03/2014 5:08:05 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Karl Spooner
>>Cult.<<

That’s a fact. And a pagan one at that.

33 posted on 07/03/2014 5:08:49 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: vladimir998

The beleivers are the church


34 posted on 07/03/2014 5:09:51 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Karl Spooner

That is exactly what it is and it is unsettling that it is promoted so much on FR.


35 posted on 07/03/2014 5:10:51 PM PDT by yellowdoghunter (Welcome to Obamastan! (Mrs. Yellowdoghunter))
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To: GeronL

“The beleivers are the church”

Not all those who claim to believe in Christ are fully united with the Church. Sectarians cannot be fully united with what they have separated themselves from.


36 posted on 07/03/2014 5:13:16 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998

I have never separated myself from Jesus.


37 posted on 07/03/2014 5:16:45 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: CynicalBear

They will follow it all the way to hell if necessary to protect their man made beliefs. You can see how they are trying to pollute the scenery with lies instead of making the truth be known by the scriptures.


38 posted on 07/03/2014 5:19:10 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: yellowdoghunter

“We believe also in the holy Church, that is, the Catholic Church. For heretics violate the faith itself by a false opinion about God; schismatics, however, withdraw from fraternal love by hostile separations, although they believe the same things we do. Consequently, neither heretics nor schismatics belong to the Catholic Church; not heretics, because the Church loves God; and not schismatics, because the Church loves neighbor” (Faith and the Creed 10:21 [A.D. 393]). ~ St. Augustine


39 posted on 07/03/2014 5:19:29 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: CynicalBear

Not true.


40 posted on 07/03/2014 5:20:05 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: GeronL

“I have never separated myself from Jesus.”

You have if you have separated yourself from His Body - the Church.


41 posted on 07/03/2014 5:20:22 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Salvation

True.


42 posted on 07/03/2014 5:22:17 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: CynicalBear

“That’s a fact. And a pagan one at that.”

Name for me all the pagan cults you know who believe in the following:

The Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all Divine Persons. These divine Persons are the only deity in the universe. There are no other gods. Second Person of the Trinity took on flesh and walked the earth as a man, born of virgin Jewish girl named Mary, just so He could suffer, die on a cross, and be resurrected for our salvation.

Put up or shut up.


43 posted on 07/03/2014 5:24:25 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
You have if you have separated yourself from His Body - the Church.

Do you know how Charlie Manson you all sound?

44 posted on 07/03/2014 5:26:54 PM PDT by Karl Spooner
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To: Karl Spooner; NKP_Vet
Who belongs to the Catholic Church?

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."320

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but 'in body' not 'in heart.'"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323


The protestants are said to be in some sense, albeit incomplete, united with the Church.
45 posted on 07/03/2014 5:29:09 PM PDT by wonkowasright (Wonko from outside the asylum)
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To: vladimir998

The people who believe in HIM are the church.


46 posted on 07/03/2014 5:30:17 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Karl Spooner

“Do you know how Charlie Manson you all sound?”

Do you know how Harry Reid you sound?


47 posted on 07/03/2014 5:32:10 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: GeronL

If the Holy Father said what is being reported, then he is in error if he is saying the Church is Only the Roman Church he heads.


48 posted on 07/03/2014 5:33:57 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: GeronL

“The people who believe in HIM are the church.”

Not necessarily. Don’t assume. Matthew 7:21


49 posted on 07/03/2014 5:34:19 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
God says don’t incorporate pagan practices in worship of Him.

Deuteronomy 12:30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God

But the Catholic Church says.

“We need not shrink from admitting that candles, like incense and lustral water, were commonly employed in pagan worship and the rites paid to the dead. But the Church from a very early period took them into her service, just as she adopted many other things indifferent in themselves, which seemed proper to enhance the splendor of religious ceremonial. We must not forget that most of these adjuncts to worship, like music, lights, perfumes, ablutions, floral decorations, canopies, fans, screens, bells, vestments etc. were not identified with any idolatrous cult in particular; but they were common to almost all cults” (Catholic Encyclopedia, III, 246.)

“When we give or receive Christmas gifts; or hang green wreaths in our homes and churches, how many of us know that we are probably observing pagan customs...the god, Woden, in Norse Mythology, descends upon the earth yearly between December 25th and January 6th to bless mankind...But pagan though they be, they are beautiful customs. They help inspire us with the spirit of 'good will to men', even as the sublime service of our Church reminds us of the ‘peace on earth’ which the babe of Bethlehem came to bestow” (Externals of the Catholic Church, 140).

Catholics can’t deny that the RCC has incorporated pagan practices into its practices. The RCC itself admits that it does. The RCC refuses to hear the words of the Lord.

Jer.44:16-17 “As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the LORD, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.”

The RCC will, just as Israel did, experience the wrath of God for disobeying His word. The admonition in Revelation to “come out of her my people” is for those who truly want to listen to God.

Then one only needs to see the list designating a cult and compare it to the claims by the Catholic Church to see it’s a cult.

50 posted on 07/03/2014 5:38:10 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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