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DENMARK: Parliament forces State (Lutheran) church to have same-sex “marriages”
Fr. Z's Blog ^ | 06/10/2014 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 07/06/2014 6:00:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

“Oh no!”, they rush to exclaim, “We’re all about freedom! Freedom for you and for me and for… everyone! Even Catholics! We’ll never force you to marry homosexuals.”

First, never accept the premise that the same-sex “marriage” issue is a matter of civil rights. It. Is. Not. In the same way that feminists have gotten everyone to believe abortion is a “women’s issue”, (It. Is. Not.), homsexualists have gotten everyone to believe same-sex “marriage” is a civil-rights issue.

This from The Telegraph:

Gay Danish couples win right to marry in church [a Lutheran church, btw ... the state church of Denmark]
Homosexual couples in Denmark have won the right to get married in any church they choose, even though nearly one third of the country’s priests have said they will refuse to carry out the ceremonies. [Remember, Danish Lutherans don't have priests, whatever they call them.]

The country’s parliament voted through the new law on same-sex marriage by a large majority, making it mandatory for all churches to conduct gay marriages.
Denmark’s church minister, Manu Sareen, called the vote “historic”. [That's code for "really stupid".]
“I think it’s very important to give all members of the church the possibility to get married. [So the State will force the State church. That's what happens when you have State church.] Today, it’s only heterosexual couples.”
Under the law, individual priests can refuse to carry out the ceremony, but the local bishop must arrange a replacement for their church. [Get that?]
The far-Right Danish People’s Party mounted a strong campaign against the new law, which nonetheless passed with the support of 85 of the country’s 111 MPs.

“Marriage is as old as man himself, and you can’t change something as fundamental,” the party’s church spokesperson Christian Langballe said during the debate. “Marriage is supposed to be between a man and a woman.”
Karsten Nissen, the [Lutheran] Bishop of [the Danish National Church's diocese of] Viborg, who is refusing to carry out the ceremonies, has warned that the new law risks “splitting the church”.

[...]

It’s only a matter of time.

In the meantime… “Let it soak.”


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: denmakr; gaymarriage; lutheran; samesexmarriage

1 posted on 07/06/2014 6:00:13 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

“Parliament forces”

This issue has always been about coercion, not “rights”.


2 posted on 07/06/2014 6:04:39 AM PDT by rightwingcrazy
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To: rightwingcrazy

I think its Norway where upper level church officials are appointed by government.


3 posted on 07/06/2014 6:07:48 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I asked some homosexuals or collectivists that were for homosexual marriage, “Why do homosexuals have more rights than the rest of us?”

They responded in the usual manner.

So I clarified the question.

I asked,

“Why do two percent of the population have the right to shove acceptance of their behaviour down the other 98%’s throat?”

Not one would respond.


4 posted on 07/06/2014 6:09:33 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Is it time for the true church to move toward house churches like communist China?


5 posted on 07/06/2014 6:09:48 AM PDT by MulberryDraw (Repeal it.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

As strong as that argument is, it’s actually weaker than saying: My God does not allow me to.


6 posted on 07/06/2014 6:13:42 AM PDT by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: SeekAndFind

It is no longer a Church.


7 posted on 07/06/2014 6:16:31 AM PDT by onedoug
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To: Salvavida

It was strong enough to shut them all up!


8 posted on 07/06/2014 6:16:32 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Under the law, individual priests can refuse to carry out the ceremony, but the local bishop must arrange a replacement for their church. [Get that?]

Liberals reminds me of namby pamby parents.

Little Johnny wants to play with big brother Jamey’s toys but Jamey says no because Johnny breaks very toy he plays with.

Well mommy forces Jamey to let Johnny play with his toys because she doesn’t want to hear Johnny whine all day about how mean Jamey is and she deludes herself in to believing she is right because Jamey needs to learn to share and be nice.

The fact that Jamey is perfectly within his rights and Johnny does not have a right to Jamey’s toys simply does not enter in to her mind.

The Church has a right to set its rules and enforce them amongst its congregation. No one is forced to be a member of the Church and they can quit any time. If the Church’s rule do not suit you leave.

9 posted on 07/06/2014 6:17:47 AM PDT by Pontiac (The welfare state must fail because it is contrary to human nature and diminishes the human spirit.)
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To: SeekAndFind

King Henry VIII started the Church of England to force his liberal views on sex and marriage in the 1500’s and he created enough conflict in England to drive dissenters into the Western Hemisphere where some of them came up with a Constitution that prohibits such an “establishment of religion”

That’s the real story of your First Amendment, not to be confused with the rewrite started by Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black in the 1940’s “Everson” decision about a “separation of church and state.”


10 posted on 07/06/2014 6:17:47 AM PDT by Nextrush (OBAMACARE IS A BAILOUT FOR THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY)
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To: rightwingcrazy

Interestingly, I read that gays are now being coerced by the companies they work for to “marry,” even if they are opposed to it ( there are actually many gays who don’t like the idea). It’s all about coercion and control.


11 posted on 07/06/2014 6:40:25 AM PDT by livius
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To: SeekAndFind

12 posted on 07/06/2014 6:50:01 AM PDT by JPG ("So sue me". OK, we will.)
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To: Jack Hydrazine

RE: They responded in the usual manner.

I’d really like to know what their usual response is....


13 posted on 07/06/2014 6:55:54 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: cripplecreek

RE: where upper level church officials are appointed by government.

Aren’t chaplains in our military essentially appointed by our government?

So, if the US military recognizes same-sex marriage, what do you think will be the next step in this moral “evolution”?


14 posted on 07/06/2014 6:55:54 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: MulberryDraw

You may be on to something significant. What we just read in this article is coming soon to a parish near you. The surest way to avoid being under dictates of our now predominantly socialist liberal government may be to take inspiration from Pope Francis and make your church small. In fact, it may be better to give up tax exempt status if that means we can make and keep our own rules. Its time to give this serious consideration. Make ourselves not in debt to the government except as any for profit entity. We will continue to use local police and firemen as needed, as entitled to all who pay municipal and ad valorem taxes.


15 posted on 07/06/2014 6:56:42 AM PDT by lee martell
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To: SeekAndFind

There will be “A Time for Choosing”, to echo Ronald Reagan’s splendid speech about freedom, which should be read every Fourth of July.

As Christians, our choice will be the same as it was for the Israelites in Joshua’s day: “Choose you this day whom you will serve.….But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.” (Joshua 24:15)


16 posted on 07/06/2014 6:57:11 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: SeekAndFind

Name calling and ad hominem attacks.


17 posted on 07/06/2014 7:06:02 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: SeekAndFind

Ping for later


18 posted on 07/06/2014 7:09:06 AM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: MulberryDraw

That’s just what I was thinking. Give up the church property, but then again, isn’t that what this is all about . . . taking possession of that valuable real estate (in addition to forcing people to do something against their conscience)?


19 posted on 07/06/2014 7:16:41 AM PDT by punknpuss
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To: livius
"Interestingly, I read that gays are now being coerced by the companies they work for to “marry,” even if they are opposed to it ( there are actually many gays who don’t like the idea)."

Could you find that and post a link? I don't doubt it's true, I'd just like to have a link to show others.

I know a gay guy who hates the SSM movement. He says, "Look, it took me 20 years to get my mother to stop nagging me to find the "right woman" and convince her that I really am gay. And now she's all in my face again, like, "Gay? Fine. So why aren't you married?"

There were even gays demonstrating against gay marriage at that huge "Manif Pour Tous" demonstration in Gay Paree last year (2 yeas ago?) --- with a banner that said "Nous sommes plus gai sans mariage": "We're gayer without marriage."

20 posted on 07/06/2014 8:13:30 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (May the Lord bless you and keep you, may He turn to you His countenance and give you peace.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Genesis 1

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.

28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


21 posted on 07/06/2014 1:28:51 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

I pinged you to the thread (a Salon post) that had the article about gays now being coerced to “marry.”


22 posted on 07/06/2014 3:43:53 PM PDT by livius
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To: Mrs. Don-o
“We have good news and we have bad news.

“The good news is that now you’re just like everybody else!

“The bad news is that...now you’re just like everybody else.”

23 posted on 07/06/2014 3:57:20 PM PDT by RichInOC ("Catholic doctrine and discipline may be walls; but they are the walls of a playground."--GKC)
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