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Pope Francis jokes 'woman was from a rib'
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/29/pope-francis-woman-from-rib-avoids-pledge-reform-catholic-church ^

Posted on 07/07/2014 2:47:06 AM PDT by piusv

In his first interview with a female journalist since his election to the spiritual leadership of the world's 1.2 billion baptised Catholics, Pope Francis dodged a string of questions about whether he intended raising the status of women in his church and made a joke about women being "taken from a rib". The pope said women were "the most beautiful thing God has made". And he added: "Theology cannot be done without this feminine touch." He agreed not enough was said about women and promised that steps were being taken to remedy the situation. But when his interviewer, the Vatican correspondent of the Rome daily Il Messaggero, Franca Giansoldati, asked him whether he could detect an underlying misogyny in the Catholic church, Francis replied: "The fact is that woman was taken from a rib." Giansoldati wrote that he then laughed "heartily" before saying: "I'm joking. That was a joke." The 77-year-old pontiff went on: "The issue of women needs to be gone into in more depth, otherwise you can't understand the church itself." But did he envisage, say, appointing a woman to head a Vatican department? "Well," replied the pope cryptically. "Priests often end up under the sway of their housekeepers." In a conversation that highlighted both his theologically conservative side and his economically radical one, Francis returned to his argument that people should have children rather than pets, even if the task was more demanding. "The emotional relationship with animals is easier, more programmable," he said. "An animal is not free whereas having a child is a complex matter."

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
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1 posted on 07/07/2014 2:47:06 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
But when his interviewer, the Vatican correspondent of the Rome daily Il Messaggero, Franca Giansoldati, asked him whether he could detect an underlying misogyny in the Catholic church, Francis replied: "The fact is that woman was taken from a rib." Giansoldati wrote that he then laughed "heartily" before saying: "I'm joking. That was a joke."

Since when is the Traditional Creation story a joke?

You funny Francis. If anything is a joke, it's this so-called papacy.

2 posted on 07/07/2014 2:52:11 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv
Francis replied: "The fact is that woman was taken from a rib." Giansoldati wrote that he then laughed "heartily" before saying: "I'm joking. That was a joke."

What?! He said that women are a joke!
3 posted on 07/07/2014 4:01:08 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("If you're litigating against nuns, you've probably done something wrong."-Ted Cruz)
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To: piusv

Really? Pick, pick, pick.


4 posted on 07/07/2014 4:29:30 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: Dr. Sivana

These days women are a joke. Demanding that the church elevate women is nothing more than Satan leading women around by the nose. They are doing his work and they are his children. Even if I thought I could do a better job than any man within the church, am I acting out of pride? Wouldn’t it be better to follow God’s teachings in this matter and submit my will to His? Pope Francis shouldn’t have joked about it, he should have had the decency to state frankly what the Bible says about a woman’s role in the church. No church venerates women more than the Catholic church and he shouldn’t give an inch.


5 posted on 07/07/2014 4:35:38 AM PDT by punknpuss
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To: punknpuss

Well put.


6 posted on 07/07/2014 4:37:15 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("If you're litigating against nuns, you've probably done something wrong."-Ted Cruz)
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To: piusv
But did he envisage, say, appointing a woman to head a Vatican department? "Well," replied the pope cryptically. "Priests often end up under the sway of their housekeepers."

It's those sneaky asides and manipulative hints while ironing his shirts and making him a sandwich.

7 posted on 07/07/2014 4:38:29 AM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: punknpuss
Can't the man say a word without getting dumped on? He said it was a joke because he didn't want to hear from all the libby nuns who want to be priests. Men are not allowed to be men. They are not allowed to say how they feel. If the man passes wind, we have a 3000 post thread on FR as to whether or not he did it right. ENOUGH!
8 posted on 07/07/2014 4:38:38 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: punknpuss

By the way, I had put in a “stark raving feminist” fake tag, but FR took it as a real tag so didn’t include it in my post earlier.


9 posted on 07/07/2014 4:39:29 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("If you're litigating against nuns, you've probably done something wrong."-Ted Cruz)
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To: piusv

He will be ripped apart by both sides. Already, a FR poster criticized him for making a joke about the creation story.

PS. The creation story is allegory.


10 posted on 07/07/2014 4:49:43 AM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible. Complicit in the destruction of this country.)
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To: I want the USA back

“PS. The creation story is allegory.”

Yes, it’s allegory - but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true and that doesn’t mean it isn’t LITERALLY true.


11 posted on 07/07/2014 4:57:01 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: piusv
Francis replied: "The fact is that woman was taken from a rib."

Archie Bunker
"A cheaper cut."

12 posted on 07/07/2014 5:26:13 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: I want the USA back

“PS. The creation story is allegory.”

No.


13 posted on 07/07/2014 5:37:45 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion ( "I didn't leave the Central Oligarchy Party. It left me." - Ronaldus Maximus)
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To: Dr. Sivana

What?! He said that women are a joke!


No, he did not say women are a joke.

He said they were the most beautiful thing God has made.

But any Christian should be able to see that all of this women rights stuff almost always has to do with something God forbids.

Every thing from women preaching in Church to abortion is promoted by women.

Satan uses women today just like he did in the garden of Eden.

He did not say it but I will, most women and men in the Christian world are a JOKE, and the others don`t count.


14 posted on 07/07/2014 7:05:24 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

Hi Ravenwolf,

If you see my Post #9, I explained that I had put in a /stark-raving-feminist tag that was interpreted as a real tag by FR.

I was making fun of feminists who would wilfully mistake what Pope Francis said.

I am sorry for the confusion.


15 posted on 07/07/2014 7:09:02 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("If you're litigating against nuns, you've probably done something wrong."-Ted Cruz)
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To: piusv

Eve was the first cloned human. :)

However, what is the consensus here on FR about women speaking in church? Just wondering.


16 posted on 07/07/2014 7:10:52 AM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Dr. Sivana

If you see my Post #9, I explained that I had put in a /stark-raving-feminist tag that was interpreted as a real tag by FR.


Ok, I just thought you may have misread it, I can get confused all by my self any way.

We definitely agree.


17 posted on 07/07/2014 7:25:36 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: defconw

I like Pope Francis, but when will he realize that every time he speaks off the cuff and tries to humanize his office, he diminishes his position? He needs our prayers but he also needs to put on the full armor of God and acknowledge that the enemy he is facing is a liar and dissembler. That’s why he needs to respond with Scripture to questions about women in the church and their desire for more authority in order to be placed higher than men thereby pleasing themselves and their true father. Yes, the media will go insane if truth is spoken, but they are insane regardless.


18 posted on 07/07/2014 7:26:48 AM PDT by punknpuss
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To: huldah1776

“what is the consensus here on FR”


?? hahahaha
What is the consensus on FR about any subject?

But I will, of course, tell you my opinion. I’m a (female) lector at church and I love that ministry. I”m not taking it away from the guys because there are a huge number of guys in this ministry at our church. I absolutely feel a calling to do this, not just a whim or a desire for influence. I ask for the Holy Spirit to communicate what He wants people to here, and to take my own opinions/ego completely out of it.
As to preaching at Mass, I think the Church has laid down some good guidelines for the circumstances where a non-priest can preach at Mass. I think they are not always followed, unfortunately. It’s the priest’s responsibility to get it right, though.


19 posted on 07/07/2014 7:32:38 AM PDT by married21 ( As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: punknpuss
I think he should stop giving interviews. Let me preface this with I am a Catholic. I miss John Paul II, ...Either Francis is not all that intelligent (not all priests are scholars) or the devil is using him. It has happened before.
20 posted on 07/07/2014 7:37:19 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

Agreed. Mixing it up with the media is a failing proposition.

I’m not Catholic, but I respect the Pope’s position in this world and I look to him for spiritual guidance among other religious leaders. I miss Pope John Paul II too.


21 posted on 07/07/2014 8:22:01 AM PDT by punknpuss
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To: piusv

I am not a Catholic but it appears to me that the pope is really a nice guy and a Christian.

He does not know how to fight, and where the media and women`s rights are concerned that is just what it is, a big fight.

The Churches, both Catholic and protestant have taken people into their numbers just for the sake of big membership.

Many of them do not believe in the Bible any more than the media does, to many it is just a man made organization and they are making it more so.

So I am glad I am not the Pope.


22 posted on 07/07/2014 8:31:46 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: punknpuss

My Church is almost as screwed up as this country right now. If he were to come out and tell the truth half the Church would be up in arms. It sucks!


23 posted on 07/07/2014 8:37:29 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: punknpuss

Wouldn’t it be better to follow God’s teachings in this matter and submit my will to His?


You are the second woman I have heard say that.

While in Church many years ago all of the congregation were making comments.

The preacher ask a certain woman what she thought, she reminded the preacher that the Bible tells women to keep silent in Church and that she believed what the Bible said.

And by the way, even before that she was a woman who every one liked and respected as I have no doubt you are also, thank you for the comment.

Pope Francis shouldn’t have joked about it,>>>>>

I am not Catholic so I don`t know but I think the pope is a decent man but just don`t know how to do this kind of fighting.


24 posted on 07/07/2014 8:53:11 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Alex Murphy

Alex:

I must admit, I was thinking of this line from Archie as well when he was debating with Mike and Gloria on this issue. Classic!


25 posted on 07/07/2014 9:03:09 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: huldah1776
what is the consensus here on FR about women speaking in church?

I'm all for any opportunity to get them to stop talking.

26 posted on 07/07/2014 9:04:48 AM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Conservatism is the political disposition of grown-ups.)
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To: defconw

He is neither a trained philosopher, as Pope Jon Paul II was, nor a trained theologian as Pope Benedict was. I think Pope Francis is a “solid Jesuit priest”, I think he is best at just meeting with people and living the Gospel by his actions. I think he is sincere, but I think he is not savvy at all and living in Argentina, not in the West, he still does not understand how to deal with the secular Western Press.

As for the Devil, I have heard more of the Devil from Pope Francis than what I have heard in a long time. He definitely is not afraid to speak of that. So I don’t think the Devil is using him, that is bit to far for me.

He needs to take a cue from Pope Benedict and be very measured, reflective and thoughtful when dealing with the press. He has this personality of stating things off the cuff and when you do that, the various press groups, secular vs. religious, and within religious, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish, are going to interpret it through their own lens when you make off the cuff remarks. Lesson, stop the off the cuff stuff, although, in this case, I think the man made a joke so I think we can cut him some slack. The only people up in arms are the far left feminist on one extreme and fundamentalist of various stripes on the other, Catholic included. He did not deny the underlying theology of the Book of Genesis, by the time of Saint Augustine, every major theologian recognized that the Bible could use Allegory as a mode to tell what is a “Theological truth”, in fact, with respect to the Genesis Creation story(s}, Saint Augustine said as much.

Some Catholics here need to chill out, and it seems even some protestants here are cutting the Pope some slack.


27 posted on 07/07/2014 9:12:28 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: CTrent1564
I really don't have a problem with what he said. I also think he said it was a joke, because he knew if he didn't the nazi nuns would come for him. Among others.

I think he just needs to stay away from the media. Maybe he's a nerdy type not used to the spotlight?

28 posted on 07/07/2014 9:46:11 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

I think that if one sentence gets so many different people in a raving tizzy over so many conflicting points, the problem is with all of those people, not the Pope.


29 posted on 07/07/2014 10:02:38 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: ravenwolf

I think the Pope is good. I believe that he’s trying to stay humble, but the media exploits everything he says. That is where his naivete works against him and the Church.

Even in my small church, Lutheran Missouri Synod, women are concerned with their “place”. I’ve only know God for 10 years now but it bothers me when the men of our church do not speak the truth or tip-toe around it so as not to offend anyone. I don’t mean that men should say, “shut up and sit down,” but they should point to what Paul spoke of in regard to women in the church and their authority. I’ve noticed that the more responsibilities that women take on in the church, the less men step up. That is a great loss in my opinion.


30 posted on 07/07/2014 10:13:32 AM PDT by punknpuss
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To: Tax-chick
I hear you! I said up the thread if the man passes wind we have a 3000 post fight over whether or not he did it right! I am tired of it. He said what he said, so what?

Some women think that it's a boys club and the boys are just being sexist. I think we can agree that the roles for men and women are different both within the Church and without. Can a man change a diaper and nurture a child? Of course they can, will they do it the same way a woman would? Probably not. There is nothing wrong with that.

Being a woman I can teach a boy to throw a football. (yes I know how), but I can't teach him how to be a man's man, because I am not a man.

31 posted on 07/07/2014 10:23:53 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

I think it’s important to remember that Pope Francis is not trying to avoid criticism of himself. He’s trying to evangelize the world under very difficult conditions.

It could be that more people besides my ironical son (sitting across the room) and me will notice that people who otherwise have nothing in common are criticizing the Pope, and they’ll think, “Maybe we should pay attention to the guy who’s consistent.”


32 posted on 07/07/2014 10:36:55 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: Tax-chick
You are way more hopeful then me. I am glad someone is. I am pretty much on the Oh here we go again, wheel. Not because I think he's wrong, it's just the constant harangue, most especially in here.

Then again who cares what they think. The Holy Father no matter what he says or does has a target on him.

I once had a philosophical discussion on the nature of sin and does the priest take on the sins of confessees. It was about the time that JPII was being criticized for not stepping down in his illness. Of course we know Benedict got criticized for stepping down. So they never can win. I was in the JPII was teaching us how to embrace suffering by his example and how to die. Quite moving, although it was tough to watch his decline. But then again the Crucifixion was no picnic either.

33 posted on 07/07/2014 10:55:51 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw
It was hard seeing Pope John Paul suffering, and I'm sure it was hard for him, too. I remember reading about his meeting with a group of skiers, perhaps at World Youth Day, and saying, "I used to be a sportsman. I could ski!" Entropy is going to get all of us, eventually.

Then again who cares what they think. The Holy Father no matter what he says or does has a target on him.

Exactly. Before anyone has a cow, I'm not saying Pope Francis is Jesus ... but just consider the example. Jesus didn't worry about what his enemies were going to say about Him. He didn't worry about what his friends thought about Him! He didn't carefully calculate every word to make sure nobody could possibly misunderstand or twist it. He just pursued the mission of redemption.

When Jesus commissioned Peter, He didn't say, "Make sure you never say anything that people of ill-will can pretend to misunderstand." He said, "Feed my sheep, feed my lambs, tend my sheep."

34 posted on 07/07/2014 11:26:58 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: CTrent1564; ebb tide; piusv
The only people up in arms are the far left feminist on one extreme and fundamentalist of various stripes on the other, Catholic included.

A FReeper who uses the Council of Trent as his screen name is against Catholic Fundamentalism. Do you guys get that?

He did not deny the underlying theology of the Book of Genesis, by the time of Saint Augustine, every major theologian recognized that the Bible could use Allegory as a mode to tell what is a “Theological truth”, in fact, with respect to the Genesis Creation story(s}, Saint Augustine said as much.

I wish some day someone would take the time to explain to me why only the Book of Genesis is an allegory whose sole purpose is to teach "underlying theology." Why not Exodus? Why not Numbers? Why not Joshua? Why not Jonah? Why always and only Genesis? I could understand if the advocates of "underlying theology" consistently rejected all Biblical miracle tales, but they do not. They accept them all while insisting on the absolutely unique impossibility of the facticity of Genesis.

35 posted on 07/07/2014 11:27:41 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: I want the USA back
PS. The creation story is allegory.

Maybe J*sus was an allegory.

36 posted on 07/07/2014 11:28:44 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: punknpuss

I’ve only know God for 10 years now but it bothers me when the men of our church do not speak the truth or tip-toe around it so as not to offend anyone.


I agree, it is fine to be polite but it should not compromise the word of God.

I have never been a Church member although i became a believer over 40 years ago but time makes no difference.

I do not want to become a Church member because i do not want to give my all to the church and for that reason am not fit to be a member.

Many Churches will make a member of any and all who come along.

But acts 4;32 to acts 5:14 tells us a little different story of what an actual Church member really is although it is hard to determine exactly, also 1 Timothy 5:9 to 16 gives us more insight on the matter.

The Gospel is for any one who will heed it but a few people were chosen to preach Christ and for service to the Church but most were to keep on planting corn so to speak and i am one of them.

But since i am a member on this web site and an unpaid one to my regret i can speak freely here and so can you.

Thanks for the reply.


37 posted on 07/07/2014 11:29:04 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: Tax-chick
I am glad you brought up Peter. One of my favorites. He was always messing up. I like that about him. Gives me hope!

Lord knows if there is anything I am good at, it's messing up!

38 posted on 07/07/2014 11:30:06 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

The Apostles were a comedy of errors, and so are we.


39 posted on 07/07/2014 11:35:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Who said Genesis is the only allegory? I must have missed something? Surely no one thinks Jonah was literally in the belly of a whale, do they?


40 posted on 07/07/2014 11:36:09 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: Tax-chick
I always say it's a good thing God has a sense of humor. Then again it's possible that he created us to entertain him while we working our way back to him. LOL.

Oops, I said working. INCOMING.

41 posted on 07/07/2014 11:37:40 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

Duck and cover!

We are made in God’s image and likeness, so we couldn’t have a sense of humor if He doesn’t.


42 posted on 07/07/2014 11:41:32 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: Tax-chick

True, but I think, no I know we are much stupider then He probably would like. :). Almost time to go home. So I will pick this up after I get home. :)


43 posted on 07/07/2014 11:44:29 AM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: defconw

I’m sort of in the process of making a casserole.


44 posted on 07/07/2014 11:45:09 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Quizas.)
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To: defconw
Who said Genesis is the only allegory? I must have missed something? Surely no one thinks Jonah was literally in the belly of a whale, do they?

Why not? Is the concept of Biblical inerrancy or Divine inspiration alien to you?

Why do so many who doubt the Hebrew Bible get down on their knees and become fundamentalists when it comes to the "new testament's" claims about J*sus? What's the difference between Jonah in the fish and the virgin birth?

45 posted on 07/07/2014 12:23:16 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: ravenwolf

I do not want to become a Church member because i do not want to give my all to the church and for that reason am not fit to be a member.


I’ve never heard of this before about not being fit to be a member. Interesting. My attendance has slacked off — mainly weariness, I have a lot on my plate right now and feeling drained by life in general. I feel a need to go to church which is why I attend as regularly as I can. There are some in the church who give a lot of time and effort and some who don’t appear to do as much (but there’s no telling where they are spending their time — they could be helping in the community.)

Take care FRiend!


46 posted on 07/07/2014 12:38:59 PM PDT by punknpuss
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Why are you so freaking hostile? Seek help my friend.


47 posted on 07/07/2014 12:54:18 PM PDT by defconw (parties have clearly lost their minds on this.)
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To: punknpuss

Take care FRiend!>>>>>>

Thank you.


48 posted on 07/07/2014 1:09:54 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: defconw
Why are you so freaking hostile? Seek help my friend.

I suppose for the same reason you're so freaking inconsistent.

49 posted on 07/07/2014 1:37:46 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: defconw; Zionist Conspirator

Because he has a valid point...a point that most modern Catholics do not answer. Those of us who still follow Traditional Catholic teaching regarding the Creation story see his point. Likewise, those of us who still follow Traditional Catholic teaching about the Creation story also see Francis’ “joke” regarding it as pathetic at best.

Francis shouldn’t be apologizing for bringing up the truth in the Creation story. He shouldn’t be joking about it. He should be telling the truth boldly. Who cares whether the poor feminists don’t like what he has to say.

He (and the rest of New Church) worries way too much about offending others than speaking Catholic Truth. Or perhaps they aren’t sure they believe it either.


50 posted on 07/07/2014 1:47:53 PM PDT by piusv
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