Skip to comments.How Sex is Derailing Lutheran-Orthodox Dialogue
Posted on 07/08/2014 7:52:36 PM PDT by marshmallow
"The outcome of the dialogue in Tallinn was sobering, as it is difficult to come closer on substantive issues. The question of womens ordination is regarded as church-dividing, at least from the Orthodox angle . . . Consequently I think we on the Lutheran side have to think about whether progress in dialogue is to be expected at all.
These sobering reflections come from Rev. Dr. Jennifer Wasmuth, a participant in the Joint Commission for theological dialogue between the Lutheran World Federation (LWF) and the Orthodox Church, following recent discussions in Estonia. The meeting, which took place May 8-13, focused on the question of womens ordination. If Wasmuths words above are anything to go by, it doesnt sound like it was the most fruitful of discussions.
As Wasmuth explains, The simple and crucial difference is that ordaining women is not recognized in Orthodox churches, while in most Lutheran churches it is not only recognized but already practiced.
This is not exactly newsfemale ordination among churches of the Lutheran World Federation has been a perennial strain on ecumenical relations with the Orthodox (and Roman Catholics for that matter) for some time. The election of female bishops by some Lutherans has only exacerbated tensions. In 2010, for example, the election of a female bishop in the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland prompted statements of concern from the nations Catholic and Orthodox leaders. As a theological decision, it is a step away from efforts toward unity, Archbishop Leo of the Finnish Orthodox Church noted.
A year earlier, the election of a woman as head bishop of the Evangelical Church in Germany (EKD) brought a quick rebuke from the Russian Orthodox Church. We planned to celebrate the 50th anniversary of our dialogue with the Lutheran Church in Germany in late November or early December,.....
(Excerpt) Read more at firstthings.com ...
If the left cannot spread their corruption to that other church, there will be no merger.
apples and oranges
it isn’t welcomed - women pastors - in LCMS or WELS.
We have to come together on this issue, else how can we get this ecumenical movement snowballing into a one world religion?
If you’re Christian, you have to be for “one world religion”.
I wonder how the secret dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is going?
“If youre Christian, you have to be for one world religion.”
Yep. Protestants often just don’t get that.
How perceptive. Yes, for us Orthodox, women’s ordination to the presbyterate is a complete non-starter — even if another body confessed the creed without the filioque, held all the doctrines of the Seven Ecumenical Councils, maintained the Palamite understanding of grace, if they ordain women as priests, the Orthodox will not enter into communion with them.
The diaconate might be another matter. There plainly was an ancient order of deaconesses, but whether they ever functioned liturgically as deacons is a matter of great dispute, and the affirmative position that they did must be tempered with the fact that ancient canons forbid women entering the altar unless the be virgins over the age of 40 or widows living in chastity over the age of 60. There is also general opposition to any attempt to revive the order of deaconess.
They ought to consider rejoining the Mother Church, with whom they share more than with their apostate lutheran relatives.
If Lutherans want unity with us Orthodox, they have to BECOME Orthodox!!!!
It’s the only way. Just getting rid of women/gay/transsexual pastors and “bishops” won’t work.
Trust me. I know!!!!
we don’t join with those in more error, why we’d join with those with perhaps a little less error/different errors...? not a great biblical argument for joining. it’s still unionism/syncretism, but just a different flavor.
and i know you’ll say the same thing about lutherans vs rcc, so there we are.
hey don’t discount 1%.
1% of the population has made all the fortune 500 companies bend over for being pro-gay. the entire business climate revolves around sodomites’/as customers and the only stuf getting any political coverage besides the border and the caliphate the last year is gay everything.
1% can do just fine, especially when they’re on the good side.
“Rev. Dr. Jennifer...”
I see part of the problem.
And yet they aren't the kind of Lutherans that the Catholic Church wants to be ecumenical with. Funny thing that.
it’s b/c they are genuine lutherans. they don’t compromise. they understand what unionism and syncretism mean.
Sure we do.
But it won’t be unBiblical.
Be rooted in Christ!
AOCA Metropolitan PHILIP (Memory Eternal!) spoke favorably of women in the diaconate...it is in his authorized biography.
If it’s a secret, how’d you hear about it? LOL
Statement assumes facts not in evidence. Please present proof that any resistance to ecumenical discussion between the LCMS/WELS and the Vatican is coming from the Vatican.
Just as a point of fact, the Catholic Church's profession of faith does not refer to the senior leadership of the LCMS/WELS as "antichrist". (It doesn't refer to them at all, in fact.) The reverse is not true.
If youre Christian, you have to be for one world religion.
Why would a Christian except any religion?
Talking to the wrong Lutherans.
Which is why the LCMS and affiliated synods now view ecumenical dialog with a lot more suspicion than before.
From what I have heard, after BXVI left it cooled a lot.
Francis isn’t as open to talking with the LCMS as Benedict was. I have heard a lot of things, but most are rumors, as to why.
Simply put, the hold up isn’t theology, it is philosophy.
In the words of those great 20th Century theologians and social observers, Sonny and Cher: and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.
Yes. But Met. +PHILIP (memory eternal!) was a modernizer — clergy suits instead of cassocks (blessedly I’m in the Diocese of Wichita, where, except when Met. +PHILIP was actually physically present, clergy still wore and wear cassocks), cutting the ektenia before the Our Father out of the Liturgy, and the like. I stand by my assertion that there is general opposition to any attempt to revive the order of deaconess.
Let me guess . . . we should all be Catholic, right? The word catholic means universal does it not? If only there was some way to force people to accept. Maybe an impending world catastrophe or something. Yeah that would work. Convert or die. Wait a minute that's the Islam way.
Our Lord isn’t a bigamist. He has one bride.
She ain't Catholic.
You don’t know what you’re saying.
Dump justification by works, papal infallibility, and the entirety of the Council of Trent and we’ll start talking.
You can keep the pimping hats, though.
Interesting on the “modernizing”...similar pattern in the Diocese of Charleston regarding both cassocks and the ektenia before the Lord’s Prayer.
As best as I can recall that ektenia was used during a Hierachical Divine Liturgy I witnessed last June.
Just because it is a secret to you doesn’t mean it was secret to me. One of the guys who helped make the meeting happen told me about it.
“From what I have heard, after BXVI left it cooled a lot.”
Actually the LCMS didn’t approach the pope about these talks until a few months ago. Pope Benedict had been out of office for about 8 or 9 months by that point.
Did you skip your medication?
Over here on this side I’ve heard nothing.
Don’t feel bad. Almost none of the LCMS members know! This was all very hush-hush. It is a fluke that I happen to know about it. It might never be made public either.
No dissin' the hat. The Popes mitre is wicked cool. Whatever the Catholics shortcomings (I know it's a long list), they know hats.
Archbishop of Canterbury Justin Welby
"So there I was at Sea World...and suddenly it hit me.....cool huh?
Yeah, it’s got that Sea World thing going on for it alright. I’ve got to tip my hat to them on this one.
BipolarBob, that Archbishop with that hat is a protestant.
So. I knew that. What's your point?