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Pope Francis must do more than apologize
SouthCoastToday.com ^ | 7/10/2014 | Editorial

Posted on 07/10/2014 2:34:13 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne

True reconciliation only begins with an apology.

It takes more than saying one is sorry to heal the wounds that come from hurting others. That takes justice — a commitment to make things right, to change whatever actions have caused harm, and to hold those responsible for that harm accountable for their actions.

Pope Francis on Monday met with a group of Roman Catholics who had suffered sexual abuse at the hands of Catholic clergy, and he offered a sweeping apology to them for the wrongs done against them when they were children.

(Excerpt) Read more at southcoasttoday.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: catholic; corruption; sexualabuse
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Yep. Pope Frank offered lip service. It only cost him a few minutes and a little breath. He needs to act decisively and order Catholic dioceses to turn over ALL documents and information re: clergy and others within the church who have been accused of child abuse to authorities who can investigate and prosecute these perverts.

Until he does that, he's just one more politician hoping that his scandal will just go away.

1 posted on 07/10/2014 2:34:13 PM PDT by Dr. Thorne
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To: Dr. Thorne

I agree that the catholic church needs to turn over all evidence of abuse and allow authorities to prosecute abuse cases. Keep in mind sadly for the victims many of the accused clergy are dead.

The Catholic Church must also not allow gay men into the seminary. Gay priests are overwhelmingly the majority of abusers. In its desperation for vocations those with perverse tendencies were allowed into the priesthood with dire consequences.


2 posted on 07/10/2014 2:40:15 PM PDT by longfellowsmuse (last of the living nomads)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Unless the Pope purges homosexuals from the clergy, these molestations by vile homosexual priests will continue. Also celibacy ought to be made optional.


3 posted on 07/10/2014 2:40:42 PM PDT by allendale
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To: Dr. Thorne

Let’s also hear from the Protestant religions, Dr. (?) Thorne. Unless, of course, you believe that those choir masters are without sin. And, you probably do...


4 posted on 07/10/2014 2:43:53 PM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Nonsense. It will never go away, in the sense that people will never let it rest.

The RC church in the USA has done more than any other organization to screen potential clergy, employees, etc who might abuse kids. The church has paid out millions of dollars to victims, It has defrocked many of the offenders. It has apologized over and over.

Nothing will ever be enough for the enemies of the RC church.

Meantime, schoolteachers, other clergy, social workers, etc., continue to pop up on the news because of sexual abusive behavior. No one seems to care much about punishing these organizations, but the haters of the RC church continue to scream and holler at the top of their lungs. I am a bit tired of it.

If a new case of abuse crops up, then get on that case. Enough about cases that took place 30-50 years ago!


5 posted on 07/10/2014 2:45:28 PM PDT by Gumdrop (~)
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To: All

unfortunately, the only thing that will satisfy is if the catholic church turns over ever penny they have to Kenneth Feinberg and have him divy it out and for all priests to commit hari kari. to the Christian hating media, that will be a start.


6 posted on 07/10/2014 2:47:00 PM PDT by willywill
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To: Gumdrop

” It has defrocked many of the offenders.”

How many have they had the goods on that were not turned over to the authorities and even transferred from one church to another ....


7 posted on 07/10/2014 2:55:27 PM PDT by TexasGator
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To: Gumdrop

Every day some Protestant gay is accused of attacking some kid. But that never seems to make the news on FR. Funny, that.


8 posted on 07/10/2014 2:57:17 PM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Has the head of your Church apologized for the abuse of minors in your denomination? If not, why not?


9 posted on 07/10/2014 3:24:38 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: allendale

That has been done.

A man applying to be a priest now must undergo a battery of tests, among them a two-day psyche test. Parents, priests who knew them, friends are also interviewed. Then the applicant goes through additional interviews.

You can thank Pope Benedict XVI that this was put in place after he sent emissaries to inspect all seminaries.

Has your denomination’s seminary undergone similar changes? There are more abuses by ministers of non-Catholic sects than there are of priests.

And, of course, we all know that teachers top the list.


10 posted on 07/10/2014 3:27:46 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: longfellowsmuse
In its desperation for vocations those with perverse tendencies were allowed into the priesthood with dire consequences.

No, they weren't just allowed. They were encouraged. Those who were orthodox were discouraged. And when this was all going on? There was no shortage of priests.

With all the talk of the so-called changes in the seminaries now, I'm not convinced. It seems as if just about every priest in my diocese is gay or gay sympathetic. They fit in perfectly with the feminization of the Catholic Church post Vatican II.

11 posted on 07/10/2014 4:20:22 PM PDT by piusv
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To: Salvation; Dr. Thorne

“Has the head of your Church apologized for the abuse of minors in your denomination? If not, why not?”

Dr. Thorne probably IS the head of his Church.


12 posted on 07/10/2014 5:26:35 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Dr. Thorne
I agree that no amount of apology is going to satisfy anti-Catholics. However, this Catholic won't be satisfied until the Bishops who shuffled abusers around are publicly identified and defrocked. I want to see some mitred heads rolling.
13 posted on 07/10/2014 6:13:19 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (Book: Resistance to Tyranny. Buy from Amazon.)
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To: Salvation

What are the homosexual abuse cases by denomination, do you know?


14 posted on 07/10/2014 10:30:23 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

Public Schools, a denomination of their own, probably leads the way.


15 posted on 07/10/2014 10:33:38 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Salvation; Oldeconomybuyer; RightField; aposiopetic; rbmillerjr; Lowell1775; JPX2011; NKP_Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

16 posted on 07/10/2014 10:35:28 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: GeronL

There is no denomination called public school, there are millions and millions of teachers of all religions and non-religions, gay straight, whatever, and with no central authority, but of individual districts and cities and states, millions of totally diverse unconnected people of all types.

They aren’t relevant to clergy, and any of the denominations.


17 posted on 07/10/2014 10:41:12 PM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Gumdrop
Meantime, schoolteachers, other clergy, social workers, etc., continue to pop up on the news because of sexual abusive behavior. No one seems to care much about punishing these organizations, but the haters of the RC church continue to scream and holler at the top of their lungs. I am a bit tired of it.<

Everyone keeps pointing out "occupations" engaged in abuse and disregard the simple fact that the majority of abuse, (sexual and physical) comes from family members. Parents, step parents, Aunts and Uncles. Don't forget about neighbors or acquaintances either.

18 posted on 07/11/2014 4:53:10 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: miss marmelstein; Dr. Thorne
Let’s also hear from the Protestant religions, Dr. (?) Thorne. Unless, of course, you believe that those choir masters are without sin. And, you probably do...

Well said, but it will be ignored.

19 posted on 07/11/2014 4:54:07 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: Salvation
I>And, of course, we all know that teachers top the list.

Not even close. Parents and other relatives top the list, Please stop spreading this false rumor about teachers.

http://helpforhurt.org/index.htm

http://helpforhurt.org/STATS.htm

More than 80 percent of victims (84%) were abused by a parent or parents. Mothers acting alone were responsible for 47 percent of neglect victims and 32 percent of physical abuse victims. Non relatives, fathers acting alone, and other relatives were responsible for 29 percent, 22 percent and 19 percent, respectively, of sexual abuse victims.

20 posted on 07/11/2014 5:12:17 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: verga

Also, Boyfriend Syndrome. Here in NYC it’s invariably the boyfriend of a single mother murdering and raping children. And yet these women never learn.


21 posted on 07/11/2014 5:59:07 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Dr. Thorne

Most of the clergy implicated in the sex scandal are long dead. They were homosexuals who were let in the church in the 70s and 80s. You want to get rid of sex abuse in the clergy? Quit ordaining any man that says he has ANY HOMOSEXUAL tendencies. Homosexuals can not control their sexual urges, most straight men can. The vast majority of sex abuse cases in the Catholic Church or any other faith are from HOMOSEXUALS. Will the media ever report this? Absolutely not. Why? They want to tar and feather all Catholic priests as sexual predators. End of story.


22 posted on 07/11/2014 6:39:52 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: allendale

“Also celibacy ought to be made optional”.

Celibacy has nothing to do with it, it’s all about homosexuality. Get rid of them, no more sex abuse “scandal” in the Catholic Church.


23 posted on 07/11/2014 6:41:46 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: miss marmelstein

The reason you never hear of protestant sex abuse is because that’s not where the money is. Follow the money. The Catholic Church has the money. There is no protestant “church” to attack and sue till the cows come home.


24 posted on 07/11/2014 6:45:17 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

What a sad commentary on people’s lack of interest in ALL sex abuse.


25 posted on 07/11/2014 6:53:58 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: NKP_Vet

I always scratch my head over people talking about the raping of little boys and in the same breath start talking about celibacy and allowing the clergy to marry! The apples and oranges couldn’t get any more different.


26 posted on 07/11/2014 6:56:05 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

“Every day some Protestant gay is accused of attacking some kid. But that never seems to make the news on FR. Funny, that.”

Every day?

Don’t you know how to post such articles? Learn, and I will look for your posts, every day.

Empty argument you give, with your “every day” akin to “always” and “never”. My dad taught us to not use name calling, personal insults, raising of the voice, and the use of “always” and “never” in arguments, as they are not civil, and mostly less than genuine.


27 posted on 07/11/2014 7:37:09 AM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (Just what is the real reason to disarm a law abiding citizen like me?)
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To: miss marmelstein
I used to live near Buffalo NY. I remember one summer we had a rash of child "accidental" deaths. Took about 15 minutes for the investigators to realize the truth and begin arresting last weeks "hookup."

One year in my ninth grade tech drawing class I had one of the sweetest little girls. He step monster had stripped an extension cord and whipped the child's back.

The school nurse had to document it with pictures and I had to verify information and had to see some of the pictures.

The poor thing had keloidal skin and some of the scars were 6 inches long.

I am against violence to women, but would have made an exception in this case for that step monster.

28 posted on 07/11/2014 8:45:40 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: Gumdrop

” It has defrocked many of the offenders.”

Why not all?????


29 posted on 07/11/2014 11:44:00 AM PDT by TexasGator
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To: TexasGator
Why not all?????

Many of them are dead.

30 posted on 07/11/2014 11:45:52 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: verga

“Many of them are dead. “

Many were punished
Many are dead
Many are still alive and not punished.


31 posted on 07/11/2014 2:19:58 PM PDT by TexasGator
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To: TexasGator

Sadly very few of the protestants ones have been punished, but it is easier to throw stones at the Catholic Church, carry on.


32 posted on 07/11/2014 3:15:14 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: verga

“Sadly very few of the protestants ones have been punished, but it is easier to throw stones at the Catholic Church, carry on.”

My point is that you fail to hold the RC Church to the highest standards justifying its actions based on the actions of others.


33 posted on 07/11/2014 5:33:51 PM PDT by TexasGator
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To: TexasGator
My point is that you fail to hold the RC Church to the highest standards justifying its actions based on the actions of others.<>P>Show me where I said that?

The truth of the matter is that it protestants that do that. How many articles do you see posted on FR calling for Protestant ministers to be sued/ imprisoned/ defrocked etc.. over child abuse?

I don't recall any, but it seems like every week or two there is one where you all line up to throw stones at us when we are making an effort to handle it.

Meanwhile all prots do is "pass the trash."

34 posted on 07/11/2014 6:03:47 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: verga
How many articles do you see posted on FR calling for Protestant ministers to be sued/ imprisoned/ defrocked etc.. over child abuse?

All the time. From some radio guy to a Lutheran school just yesterday or today, those threads are out there.

It doesn't matter what church or school, child predators need to be brought to justice, a very harsh justice IMO

35 posted on 07/11/2014 6:08:58 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL
It doesn't matter what church or school, child predators need to be brought to justice, a very harsh justice IMO

I don't think you'll find anyone who would disagree with that. Unfortunately there are those here who view this as an exclusively "Catholic" problem because they have theological differences with The Church and in a cynical and unchristian fashion use the sins of others to score what they think are religious points. "See! See! What did I tell you," etc. Ad nauseum.

36 posted on 07/11/2014 6:19:42 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: JPX2011

If the church hierarchy/organization took part in covering up the abuse then they should be culpable. Same with other churches and schools, IMO. It doesn’t usually work out that way, of course.


37 posted on 07/11/2014 6:22:42 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL
If the church hierarchy/organization took part in covering up the abuse then they should be culpable. Same with other churches and schools, IMO. It doesn’t usually work out that way, of course.

Agreed. And if they aren't held accountable in this life, then they surely will be in the next.

38 posted on 07/11/2014 6:29:23 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: JPX2011

Spot on. The chance of a government school teacher raping a student is multiples higher than a priest. This is another front in the secular war on Christians.


39 posted on 07/11/2014 6:30:14 PM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; Salvation; JPX2011
Spot on. The chance of a government school teacher raping a student is multiples higher than a priest. This is another front in the secular war on Christians.

I am getting a little sick, NO make a lot sick and tied of hearing these comments thrown around From post 20 on this very thread: More than 80 percent of victims (84%) were abused by a parent or parents. Mothers acting alone were responsible for 47 percent of neglect victims and 32 percent of physical abuse victims. Non relatives, fathers acting alone, and other relatives were responsible for 29 percent, 22 percent and 19 percent, respectively, of sexual abuse victims.

The links to these statistics are in post #20. We Catholics don't like it when our priests are maligned sand I really don't like it when good dedicated teachers are maligned in the same unfair way.

The plain simple fact is that parents and family members are responsible for the VAST MAJORITY of abuse to minor children.

Salvation this is at least the third time I have personally called you out on this and I would appreciate a response that you acknowledge it.

40 posted on 07/11/2014 7:11:17 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: verga

Links don’t work.


41 posted on 07/11/2014 7:22:01 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: verga
I would appreciate a response that you acknowledge it.

Even though it wasn't addressed to me I'll acknowledge it. Somebody just said a little while ago that prots are "passing the trash" when they indict the entire RCC for the sins of individuals and I agree with that. So I don't think it's right to further pass it on by pursuing a line of argument that attempts to indict teachers (even though I don't believe I've personally used it). Which you have demonstated as a falsehood anyway.

42 posted on 07/11/2014 7:22:36 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: Gumdrop
The RC church in the USA has done more than any other organization to screen potential clergy, employees, etc who might abuse kids. The church has paid out millions of dollars to victims, It has defrocked many of the offenders. It has apologized over and over.

Here's the precise problem the RC Church is up against, and I say this as someone who was born into the Catholic Church, attended CCD, received my first communion, was confirmed and married in the church: The church hid the problem of child molesting priests for DECADES. They moved the priests around from church to church hoping to bury the problem. The church blamed the victims. The church was literally dragged kicking and screaming to the truth.

It was only when the church was dragged kicking and screaming to the truth that the apologies finally started, compensation for pain caused by the offending priests started to be paid (as if money really "fixes" the damage sexually abusing a child does????) and some of the offending priests were defrocked and removed from the church.

Now the reality: so much of the continued pain that was caused to the victims of sexual molestation by catholic priests could've been dealt with upfront by simply perp-walking the offending priests out of the church and into the waiting hands of the police and states attorneys for prosecution. Doing so would've sent a clear message to the victims of sexual abuse that the church took what happened to them seriously, that the church loved them and didn't blame them for what happened, and started the healing process.

But that's not what the church did, and you and I both know that. They hid the problem for decades instead, blamed the victims, shuffled priests who were sexually molesting children around between parishes and tried burying the problem.

While you defend the church's actions, you may want to look at things from the victim's perspectives too and by all means try to understand why so many remain so skeptical all this time later.

Peace to you.

43 posted on 07/11/2014 7:32:44 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: NKP_Vet
Most of the clergy implicated in the sex scandal are long dead.

Not so sure about that, as of 2010 nearly 60 percent of Chicago's Roman Catholic parishes have had a priest publicly accused of sexually abusing a child according to a report released by three advocacy groups. (Reported by NBC Affiliate in Chicago.)

44 posted on 07/11/2014 7:40:40 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Salvation
helpforhurt.org Put it in the browser and it will take you right there. It is far from the only site that has this information. Type in "Who commits the most child abuse into Bing or Google and you will get a multitude of sites: http://www.stopitnow.org/csa_fact_who_abuse

http://www.childabuse.org/facts

45 posted on 07/11/2014 7:45:23 PM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
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To: usconservative; NKP_Vet
Not so sure about that, as of 2010 nearly 60 percent of Chicago's Roman Catholic parishes have had a priest publicly accused of sexually abusing a child according to a report released by three advocacy groups. (Reported by NBC Affiliate in Chicago.)

That link (which takes one to the the website for self-proclaimed abuse attorneys, BTW) says that the abuse allegations cover the timeframe from 1917-2009. So, I don't see where it refutes NKP_vet's assertion that most of those implicated are dead.

What I wonder is at what point does this go from seeking justice to seeking reparations?

46 posted on 07/11/2014 7:55:48 PM PDT by JPX2011
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To: usconservative

This quote jumped right out at me.....

“If you are suffering from the effects of childhood sexual abuse from one of these priests, or any person of authority, please feel free to call us for a free and confidential consultation”. My edit: Makes no difference when it happened, 20 years ago, 40 years ago, or if the priest is dead and can’t defend himself. So please, lawyers working for SNAP, need to make some money in these hard economic times. And the Catholic CHurch has the money. How many priests abused you, 1, 5, 10. Come on now. You know it happened. Come and see us for a free consultation. We can all get rich.

“The report, released Monday by Voice of the Faithful, African American Advocates for Victims of Clergy and Sexual Abuse, and the Survivors Network of Those Abused by Priests (SNAP), revealed that that 97 priests have been publicly accused of sexual abuse in Chicago from 1917 to 2009”

SNAP, leftist, anti-Catholic, ambulance chasing lawyers. Follow the money. Notice the key word is “accused”.

Listing also provided by the leftist Huffington Post. Can you please find a website without an agenda?


47 posted on 07/11/2014 8:25:18 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
I used that link specifically for the NBC Affiliate story in Chicago. Feel free to disregard the rest of the site as I did.

Agree, I don't know what those "organizations" are or what their agenda may be. You can however google Catholic Priest Abuse in Chicago and find references as recently as 2012 where Catholic Priests abused women/children in the Chicago Archdiocese.

BTW: it's the NBC affiliate portion of that site which I referred to which made the claim that some 60% of Chicago Parishes were impacted by a priest who'd committed sexual abuse. That in and of itself speaks volumes.

Let's also recognize here that aside from the above 60% claim, it is a very small minority of Catholic Priests who have committed these terrible acts.

48 posted on 07/12/2014 6:40:40 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: JPX2011; NKP_Vet
So, I don't see where it refutes NKP_vet's assertion that most of those implicated are dead.

The statement was actually long dead. I don't think 2009 is long ago

and if you truly believe there have been no cases of catholic priests sexually abusing children or women since 2009 then I'd have to respectfully disagree.

49 posted on 07/12/2014 6:49:10 AM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: usconservative

You need to quit using Catholic-hating liberal websites to try and prove your claim. And let me say once again that there’s more sexual abuse among protestants and Jews than there are Catholic. But the agenda of the leftist media is to destroy the credability of the Catholic Church so that’s why you only hear stories about Catholic priests, when the vast majority of priests have never sexually abused anyone, child or adult.


50 posted on 07/12/2014 6:58:34 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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