Posted on 07/11/2014 6:56:52 AM PDT by Gamecock
1 Corinthians 3: 3-5
for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men? What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.…
And
1 Corinthians 1:11-13
For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?…
Thanks for posting a corrective response to the earlier straw man post.
Sadly, the other thread and ones like it are typically posted by those who are not learned enough in the Scriptures to realize the poor quality of what they post. Nor learned enough to feel the embarrassment of revealing how little they understand.
Good article, there are some frequenters of the religious forum that really need to read this, because they do not understand the term, but throw it around anyway.
Let presume the early church fathers (ECFs) have some influence on doctrines we have today.
But are we to accept the false teachings on Mary, indulgences and such the ECFs seem to advocate that contradict what the Bible has to say?
When do we take what the ECFs said and when do we discard what they said?
To me, this is where the contention starts.
Do you think correcting false statements about your views is creating strife?
I alone am responsible for my relationship with Christ. This doesn’t mean I read scripture and ignore what other men say. If I do that I become what I call an “intorverted” Christian. That is, I can come up with some sincerely loopy interpretations and without the sounding board of other believers, never find my path corrected. And the discussion between me and those others is good for all of us.
It doesn’t mean I hold them above me. I don’t. I see all of them, be it Calvin, Lewis or even the apostles, as my equals in discussing the good news and its meaning in my everyday life.
“When do we take what the ECFs said and when do we discard what they said?”
Simple. If the early Christians don’t contradict the Bible, and their doctrine is useful, then go ahead and use it. If they do contradict the Bible, then do not.
It is often asserted by devout people that they can know the Bible completely without helps. They preface their interpretations with a remark like this: “Dear friends, I have read no man’s book. I have consulted no man-made commentaries. I have gone right to the Bible to see what it had to say for itself.” This sounds very spiritual, and usually is seconded with “amens” from the audience.
At the time of Pauls conversion there was nothing except the holy spirit and mens words to learn by, and Paul said that he learned from the Holy spirit.
He was not about to go to those hypocrites who walked with Jesus for over 3 years.
Gal 1
15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace,
16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
But is this the pathway of wisdom? Does any man have either the right or the learning to by-pass all the godly learning of the church? We think not.>>>>>>
If Paul felt no need to go to the apostles who knew Jesus and learned from him first hand, who am I to listen to some one trying to sell a book or are preaching for hire?
No thanks, I will go to the scripture, I might have to have help in understanding them but that is a far different cry than depending on mans theory in place of scripture.
Do you think correcting false statements about your views is creating strife?
My post was regarding what the bible says about proclaiming to follow a particular man’s teaching to the point of labelling your beliefs after him. I agree with much of the teaching of C. S. Lewis, but would never consider calling myself a “Lewisian”. And I would never call myself a Baptist or Calvinist or Catholic. At the moment I am a Christian that attends a Baptist church. I used to attend AG and even foursquare. But I identify myself as a Christian.
Raven,
Against that is the revelation that God has gifted teachers to the church - and of course that Paul was caught up into the presence of the Glorified Christ and received the Gospel from Him.
Best,
aren’t you a Phil Johnson guy?
Well, do you have
Christmas lights?
Music in the service?
NO music the the service?
The common version of the Nicean creed used the West?
The version of the Nicean creed in the East?
The preexistence of the soul?
The Non preexistence of the Soul?
If you go the pre Nicean fathers, you get into a variety of posistions on the Incarnation.
So the question has never been “Why don’t you believe all that the ECF’s believe?” But “Why do you believe the portions of the ECF’s that you do?” I can use the Early Church Fathers to justify just about every doctrine disputed on Free Republic’s religion forum.
“Absolutely not. But then, it begs the question: How do we know they are false?”
Well, if they are your views, then you are the authority on what those views are and your judgement alone is sufficient to say someone is speaking falsely of them.
“My post was regarding what the bible says about proclaiming to follow a particular man’s teaching to the point of labelling your beliefs after him.”
Ah, I didn’t see that was what you were getting at.
All the wisdom and knowledge of men is interesting and somewhat enlightening. However, after a recent experience in a Bible exposition teaching church I have to question if so much of the ‘enlightened’ matters much to my walk with the Lord. I won’t go into detail but it bothers me when one side is arrogant and feels justified in calling those with different beliefs arrogant and rigid. We let things divide that we will only know for certain when we reach Heaven and maybe not then because they may not matter. “It seems odd, that certain men who talk so much of what the Holy Spirit reveals to themselves, should think so little of what he has revealed to others.” – C. H. Spurgeon, Commenting and Commentaries (London: Passmore & Alabaster, 1876), 1.- a great quote that applies equally to all.
Matthew 24
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
If every religion has a different claim then the only thing I can do is to see for myself what the scripture said.
For instance one religion may say that Jesus actually sweat blood, I went to scripture and found that it does not exactly say that at all.
I see no reason not to get help on understanding scripture but I am not going to put my life in the hands of some one unless what they say is word for word backed by scripture.
That's the main question to ask.
It's why I default back to the Bible when there is conflict, and there is, among the ECFs.
I can use the Early Church Fathers to justify just about every doctrine disputed on Free Republic’s religion forum.
“I see no reason not to get help on understanding scripture but I am not going to put my life in the hands of some one unless what they say is word for word backed by scripture.”
I largely agree.
Once in my first year of seminary, a fellow student asked the prof a question. The prof answered that if the student was a third year student, he would answer it, but since he was in his first year, he encouraged him to ask in the future. I share that because in my third year, I’d already reached a point in my understanding of how the scriptures fit together, that I didn’t need to ask.
In the interim, God provides teachers to keep us from error and help us climb the rungs. In the end, we still search the Scriptures to “see if these things are true.” Some things we must set aside for the time until later.
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