Pope Francis “Doesn’t Want to Convert Evangelicals”?

Patheos ^ | 7/11/14 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

[marshmallow]

After meeting with a group of Pentecostal Evangelicals Pope Francis reportedly wants to preach in a Protestant church in Rome. This article reports on the meeting held in Rome with Pope Francis and TV Evangelist Kenneth Copeland and other Evangelical leaders including theologian Brian Stiller and Anglican bishop Tony Palmer.

The Pope wants to go to the Evangelical church and apologize for all the times Catholics have been nasty to Protestants. That is, of course, very wonderful and we will be waiting not only for them to graciously accept the apology, but to offer their own in return. I’m reminded of the time Pope John Paul II on Ash Wednesday of the Jubilee Year led a service of public penitence for sins committed by Catholics against lots of people…including Protestant Christians.

This loving and humble gesture was met with silence by Protestants and not a peep from any Protestant leaders that I remember with a similar apology in return.

Stiller says Pope Francis is interested in dialogue with Evangelicals, but he doesn’t want to convert them.

Francis has also shown a great openness to evangelicals. According to his understanding of evangelism asked the Pope replied that he was not interested in converting evangelicals to Catholicism. He wished that people find Jesus in their own community.Instead of a lot of time to spend with the debate about different schools of thought, one should focus on “love to show Jesus”.

That is Brian Stiller’s memory of the conversation. You can read the first hand account on Brian’s blog here. Does the pope really not want to convert Evangelicals? Is it okay to just “find Jesus in your own denomination?” As usual with Pope Francis, a private conversation has been reported publicly and now it’s open season for everyone to pick it apart........

[Biggirl]

AMEN to that and second it!

[pithyinme]

Its all good until you get to communion... then it’s no bread and wine for you.

[piusv]

So what say you about this pope who doesn’t want to convert them? How do you explain this pope’s comments?

[xzins]

Apparently, the pope is taking some heat for saying he doesn't want to convert evangelicals. I suspect that goes back to Benedict declaring us separated Christian communities. We should note the word "Christian".

Part I, Article 9 of the Catechism says:

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity." http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/index.cfm?recnum=3040

My sense is that the Pope is saying that Protestants are already Christians, so no conversion to Christ is necessary. It is NOT conversion to bring someone who already is a Christian to accept your Church instead of their old church. That is a different word than conversion if one is being precise about the theology of evangelism.

My sense is that this applies only to Trinitarians. One proof of it is that those incorporated from other denominations have no need for baptism since they have already been baptized.

[piusv]

"....for the union of Christians can only be promoted by promoting the return to the one true Church of Christ of those who are separated from it, for in the past they have unhappily left it."

Pope Pius XI, 1928, Mortalium Animos

“I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.”

- Pope Francis

[Popman]

-—Let the Caliphate come.——

Be careful what you wish for...

[Popman]

I can’t think of anything Evangelicals need to apologize for...

We need to apologize for not bowing to Rome after these atrocities

15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain.
1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action).
1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. Thousands were actually slain.
1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee.
17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'."
17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers."
17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany.

[JPX2011]

So what say you about this pope who doesn’t want to convert them? How do you explain this pope’s comments?

I don't. I've said before I'm not an apologist for Pope Francis. My own personal opinion: He's a protestantized moron and his execution of the Petrine ministry sucks. So I await the next conclave.

[Craftmore]

Praise God,perhaps its even possible that the Pope may be saved!Rev Billy Graham please pick up the white courtesy phone please!

[delchiante]

Pretty sure billy graham and most of christendom observes the pope gregory calendar, the pope’s sabbath day and the pope’s holy days of december 25 and easter sunday.

They have much more in common than one thinks..

But, if the first protestants were accurate with their beliefs of the papacy being antichrist, that is an awful lot of ‘in place of ‘ and ‘instead of’ counterfeits to observe and worship..

They just may not have moved far enough away from their mother church or over time, the daughters have come close again to their mother.

The pope gregory calendar wasn’t always the standard. And there was a time december 25 wasnt holy and was considered ‘illegal’ here....

Some back then really did not trust the papacy or the mother church and her teachings and practices.

Today, ecumenism is the phrase that pays..

Unity with ‘counterfeits’ is not unity with Truth.

[Lil Flower]

I agree with what you are saying here. However, as a Catholic, it frustrates and angers me for Protestants to say my Church is the “whore of Babylon” and that I’m not a Christian.

Just like the poster up thread who says Protestants have nothing to apologize for, the arrogance and hatefulness of some really turns my stomach.

[xzins]

Yes, well, I am a protestant — an ordained Methodist elder — and I do not believe the Catholic Church to be the whore of Babylon. I think all who believe in Jesus are His children. Period.

At this point, I think the beast of Revelation is a world domination system that derived from previous world systems as they were built upon and enhanced by those empires that conquered them. In all those systems a group of spiritualist frauds rode the power of the system to positions of wealth and influence. (We see Nebuchadnezzar hating on those of his day in the book of Daniel.)

In any case, it is a biblical warning about both all powerful governments and those religions that will utilize state power for their own aggrandizement.

That end-time, anti-Christ leader who worships power will hate religion of all type, including the spiritualist, strap-hanging, occult whore of Babylon.

[Brian Kopp DPM]

“I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism."

Pope Francis, who will soon preach at a Pentecostal church in Rome — and plans to offer them “an apology from my church for the hurt it has brought to their congregation.”

(No word on whether the Penetecostals will apologize for their propagation of heresy.)

In any case, the Vicar of Christ evidently doesn’t want anything to do with that solemn nonsense known as “evangelization.” Again, he tells a non-Catholic he has no intention to try to convert anyone:

It’s fair to ask what kind of Catholic Church we as Evangelicals want to see. At lunch I asked Pope Francis what his heart was for evangelism. He smiled, knowing what was behind my question. His comment was, “I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.”

I’ve talked before about Cardinal Kasper’s dismissal of the “ecumenism of return”. People who question why Kasper is a hand-picked adviser of the pope fail to recognize the congruencies in their theology (or anti-theology, as the case may be.) All one needs to do is refrain from projecting the orthodoxy they desire in a pope on a man who holds the office but has little interest in what it is meant to signify, and the mystery solves itself.

Matthew 7:15-20 comes to mind.

(Source)

[Brian Kopp DPM]

The Hermeneutic Of Cont...Oh I Give Up

Some Papal Quotes that somehow and in some way beyond my meager intellect are in continuity with each other, or something.

First Quote

Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441. ex cathedra (infallibly defined):
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has persevered within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM#4

Second Quote

“I’m not interested in converting Evangelicals to Catholicism. I want people to find Jesus in their own community. There are so many doctrines we will never agree on. Let’s not spend our time on those. Rather, let’s be about showing the love of Jesus.” --Pope Francis 2014

Yeah. Umm. So. Discuss. Or something.

Bonus Quotes for discussion purposes.

Pope PIUS IX, the Holy Office-- THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED :
15. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. --condemned Allocution "Maxima quidem," June 9, 1862; Damnatio "Multiplices inter," June 10, 1851.
16. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. --condemned Encyclical "Qui pluribus," Nov. 9, 1846.
17. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. -- condemned
Encyclical "Quanto conficiamur," Aug. 10, 1863, etc.

18. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. --condemned Encyclical "Noscitis," Dec. 8, 1849.
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

[Lil Flower]

I know your not Catholic and I appreciate your kindness.

[Salvation]

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/hunting-the-whore-of-babylon

[Wyrd bið ful aræd]

There is one truth, and one truth only. Regarding the plethora of fundamental disagreements between Catholics and Evangelicals, only one side can be right.

Its not enough to say "Lets all love Jesus together and its fine." Not all that cry "Lord Lord" shall enter the kingdom of heaven.

[Lil Flower]

Ridiculous isn’t it

[Jim Noble]

It's not enough to say…

OK, how about this:

39 "Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward."

[ebb tide]

The pope converts no one - the Holy Spirit does!!! - Catechism 101! He’s not being limpy loopy, he’s being humble and correctly sees his powerlessness before Jesus’ Church as He knows it.

Then we don't need a pope, we don't need a Catholic Church, we don't need missionaries. We'll just sit back let the Holy Spirit do His magic, right?

It's been over 2000 years and you think the Holy Spirit still can't get it right?