Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

A pastor presides at his son’s gay wedding—and pays the price
The Deacon's Bench ^ | July 11, 2014 | Deacon Greg Kandra

Posted on 07/12/2014 2:07:09 PM PDT by NYer

The story behind a case that made headlines a few months back, from The New York Times:

Father and son had always been close, from the moment Tim Schaefer was born, six weeks premature, with blood poisoning, a weak heart and lungs, and a doctor who thought he would not make it through the night.

His father, the Rev. Frank Schaefer, a United Methodist minister, thought of his eldest son as a miracle child, saved by some combination of medicine and prayer, saved for something special.

“We couldn’t even touch him; he was in an incubator, and we had to reach in with latex gloves through those holes in the sides,” Mr. Schaefer said. “I begged God to please save his life.”

Their bond was such that, years later, facing a choice between upholding his church’s teaching and affirming his son’s sexual orientation, Frank chose to endanger his own career by officiating at his son’s same-sex wedding. The actions that followed — a rebellion in his congregation, a church trial, a defrocking and then, last month,a reinstatement — have made the Schaefers symbols of the conundrum facing much of American Christianity: How does religious doctrine on homosexuality respond to the longings for spirituality and community from congregants and family members who are gay?

In a series of recent interviews, by telephone and in Washington, where they attended a gay pride event with President Obama at the White House, father and son described their separate and shared crises of love and faith, which began in 2001 when Tim, then in high school, acknowledged to his parents that he was gay.

Frank, now 52, had grown up in a conservative Baptist church in West Germany, believing homosexuality was a sin, but had quietly become more accepting. Tim, now 30, had grown up in his father’s conservative United Methodist church in Pennsylvania, becoming depressed and contemplating throwing himself off the roof of a parsonage when he realized he was gay.

“I would pray at night, ‘God, get me through this phase, make me normal,’ but as time went on, it was not changing,” the younger Schaefer said. “I didn’t want to be gay, and I didn’t want to go to hell.”

Read the rest.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: baptist; falsepreacher; heresy; heretic; homosexual; marriage; methodist; sexualsin
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last

1 posted on 07/12/2014 2:07:09 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

FYI, ping!


2 posted on 07/12/2014 2:07:30 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

In a sane world, his reinstatement would have been the end of that congregation


3 posted on 07/12/2014 2:09:17 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I asked my gay nail guy why anyone should feel proud of his or her sexual orientation. HE said that it didn't make any sense to him.

He's been doing my nails for almost 20 years.
My nails for these two weeks are red, white and blue in "star bursts."

4 posted on 07/12/2014 2:10:29 PM PDT by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL
In a sane world, his reinstatement would have been the end of that congregation

Amen to that.

5 posted on 07/12/2014 2:11:06 PM PDT by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I’m weeping.


6 posted on 07/12/2014 2:13:17 PM PDT by Hattie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Notice it is always a play on emotion. A rapist finds it hard to change, should he be allowed to become a minister? How about a murderer, or a bank robber, should they be able to continue in their sinful ways and become ministers?
7 posted on 07/12/2014 2:16:52 PM PDT by Fungi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GeronL

but today the UMC is one of the first to let the fag flag fly. One reason I’m no longer a member.


8 posted on 07/12/2014 2:25:00 PM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Interesting anecdote: All of my homosexual students were abused as children except one. He was mauled by a dog when he was young, and was also born with a heart condition that means he now lives with a defibrillator in his heart. This man was severely traumatized at the earliest of ages. It’s almost like homosexuality is a mental disorder as a result of trauma.


9 posted on 07/12/2014 2:26:33 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Eh...where’s mom? Such a silly-willy question, I know.


10 posted on 07/12/2014 2:27:31 PM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Since we're taking about church policy here, wouldn't it be important to check what, oh I don't know, THE BIBLE has to say about the matter?? Or is that a hate crime these days?
11 posted on 07/12/2014 2:34:27 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goodwithagun

“Interesting anecdote: All of my homosexual students were abused as children except one. He was mauled by a dog when he was young, and was also born with a heart condition that means he now lives with a defibrillator in his heart. This man was severely traumatized at the earliest of ages. It’s almost like homosexuality is a mental disorder as a result of trauma.”

I’ve often wondered how many were abused as children. Most homosexual activists will not admit to it, because they want everyone to believe they were born that way.

I still remember the story of “Little Boy Blue” whose body was found on a road on Christmas Eve. He was abused by his father and his father’s friends for many years.


12 posted on 07/12/2014 2:36:07 PM PDT by FR_addict
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: NYer

becoming depressed and contemplating throwing himself off the roof of a parsonage when he realized he was gay

mental problems and Gay fixed it , LOL D’oh


13 posted on 07/12/2014 2:36:49 PM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Maybe just me, but the expressions on their faces are very telling.

The son looks like the devil, laughing; the father looks beaten, not joyful.

Am I wrong?


14 posted on 07/12/2014 2:37:45 PM PDT by CaptainPhilFan ( It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chew yer ass out all day long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain
He's been doing my nails for almost 20 years.

Wow .. I have never had a manicure or a pedicure.

15 posted on 07/12/2014 2:39:09 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: CaptainPhilFan

You know, you’re right! And your tagline is right too


16 posted on 07/12/2014 2:46:00 PM PDT by Shimmer1 (If chocolate fudge cake could sing, it would sound like Barry White.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I’ve had aquaintance of several gay ‘friends’ through church in the past. All of them really desired to get out of the lifestyle but the pull of temptation was so great none of them ever were successful. Of course there are those who do overcome the gay lifestyle but they are few. Must be an intense addiction to break.


17 posted on 07/12/2014 2:47:07 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or tryranny)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Wow .. I have never had a manicure or a pedicure.

THEN, my dear, you haven't lived.

I go to my "club" for the pedicure. I used to REFUSE even the idea. Then, I finally had one and oooooooooooooooooooooo, was it nice.

My natural fingernails are weak, thin, soft and breakable. My girlfriend bit her nails but one day she showed up with GORGEOUS nails. I stared..."Huh? How...?"
The answer: acrylic nails.

He's been doing my nails a LONG time with NO ill effects whatsoever. I just have GORGEOUS acrylic nails--ALL the time.

Get a manicure someday. If you HATE it, tell the manicurist: "I don't like this. Stop." She/he will stop. Then, you get up and leave the shop.

Ditto with the pedicure.

Never hurts to try. Remember, if you hate it, tell him/her to stop.

Many businessmen get the super simple manicure, no color. no polish. It doesn't hurt THEM to have decent nails. Their hands are always front and center so their fingernails might as well be neat and tidy.

18 posted on 07/12/2014 2:49:23 PM PDT by cloudmountain
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: CaptainPhilFan

Maybe just me, but the expressions on their faces are very telling.

The son looks like the devil, laughing; the father looks beaten, not joyful.

Am I wrong?

I thought the same thing myself. Queers are looking more openly and sinisterly queer. The buzz cut hair and the stubbly facial hair along with a generally evil looking sneering stare is becoming the badge of the in your face queer brigade.


19 posted on 07/12/2014 2:51:04 PM PDT by robowombat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: robowombat

The son is bald, it’s trendy these days for bald or balding men to adopt that look. I do the same look, especially on weekends when I don’t shave. Nothing sinister about it. The Father does look haggard.


20 posted on 07/12/2014 2:57:43 PM PDT by Tailback
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: tflabo

An intense addiction to break is right, like porn, or any sexual addiction.

On a side note from the article:

“Now Frank and Tim Schaefer are recommitting to their relationship with the United Methodist Church, or at least with Christianity. Frank Schaefer, who has three gay children and a straight son, has become a sought-after speaker on gay rights and an advocate for change;”

Frank (dad) has THREE gay kids???? Something is truly amok.


21 posted on 07/12/2014 3:04:08 PM PDT by huldah1776
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: robowombat; Shimmer1

Hate to be correct, but glad I’m not just imagining things.
I am getting snarkier and meaner by the day.
Barry’s first election I was crushed. His second my heart turned black.

(off-topic
Shimmer - thanks.
Look up Rodney Crowell and a song by the same name as my tag
on youtube - hysterical!)


22 posted on 07/12/2014 3:07:41 PM PDT by CaptainPhilFan ( It's hard to kiss the lips at night that chew yer ass out all day long.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I knew two guys who wanted to be the first gay guys in Missouri to marry. After they beat each other up and broke up, I told them that they were lucky because they would have been the first gay guys to get a divorce...and it would have cost them a lot more money!

The son Tim's split from his gay spouse is a reminder that gay or not, he was not prepared to make the sacrifice to make a marriage work. So much homosexuality is based upon innate narcissism and truly connecting with someone else, which marriage requires, is not part of their psychological profile.

Gays are going to get the right to marry and I am betting that their divorce rates will equal or exceed heterosexual rates.

23 posted on 07/12/2014 3:13:55 PM PDT by MHT (,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776
Frank (dad) has THREE gay kids???? Something is truly amok.

The odds of it being a random occurrence must be infinitesimal.

24 posted on 07/12/2014 3:14:01 PM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: MHT

They will have very open, plural “marriages” no doubt.


25 posted on 07/12/2014 3:15:16 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: bigbob

“...fag flag fly.”

Try saying that 3 times, fast! I could barely read it!


26 posted on 07/12/2014 3:26:57 PM PDT by jocon307 (These people are (some Polish word) crazy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer

What price? He was reinstated.


27 posted on 07/12/2014 3:27:18 PM PDT by svcw (Not 'hope and change' but 'dopes in chains')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CaptainPhilFan

Well, I wouldn’t say the son looks like the Devil, but he does look quite smug and yes, the father looks beaten down, agree on that.

What’s that old saying? The camera doesn’t lie.


28 posted on 07/12/2014 3:29:12 PM PDT by jocon307 (These people are (some Polish word) crazy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Fungi
Both questions already answered:

Notice it is always a play on emotion. A rapist finds it hard to change, should he be allowed to become a minister?

(From 1 Cor 6)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[b] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,[c] 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

How about a murderer, or a bank robber, should they be able to continue in their sinful ways and become ministers?

(From Romans 6)
1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?

29 posted on 07/12/2014 3:30:02 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: cloudmountain

“My nails for these two weeks are red, white and blue in “star bursts.” “

I hope that means you’re a chick.


30 posted on 07/12/2014 3:34:55 PM PDT by PLMerite (Shut the Beyotch Down! Burn, baby, burn!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: CaptainPhilFan

Nope, I look for about 30 sec. and got the willey’s


31 posted on 07/12/2014 3:38:49 PM PDT by sopwith (LIVE FREE OR DIE)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: OneWingedShark

It was a rhetorical question but a nice response.


32 posted on 07/12/2014 3:45:37 PM PDT by Fungi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Wow .. I have never had a manicure or a pedicure.

Two weeks after I started as a visiting professor in Istanbul, I knew I needed a haircut. I started out looking for a barbershop. I found one, but the sign on the window advertised pedicures. I decided that wasn't the place for me. Farther on I found one that looked like my father's old barbershop, and got my haircut there.

33 posted on 07/12/2014 3:47:25 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (Book: Resistance to Tyranny. Buy from Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I can understand the pain of someone who suffers from same-sex attraction. However, the fact that they're attracted to someone of the same sex doesn't mean they have to follow up on that attraction, any more than a male who finds a woman attractive has to follow up on it. The attraction is one thing; the homosexual act is something beyond the attraction.
34 posted on 07/12/2014 3:51:33 PM PDT by JoeFromSidney (Book: Resistance to Tyranny. Buy from Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goodwithagun

All the lesbians I know were molested as children.


35 posted on 07/12/2014 3:52:37 PM PDT by Politicalkiddo (The more helpless the victim, the more hideous the assault.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: NYer

>>How does religious doctrine on homosexuality respond to
>>the longings for spirituality and community from
>>congregants and family members who are gay?

Let’s restate it this way:

“How does God respond to the longings for spirituality
and community from any sinner?” Ans: Christ, not “whatever
works for them.”

or,

“How does God respond to the longings for spirituality
and community from MANBLA (Man Boy Love Association)
members?” Ans: He makes them feel at ease with their
choices?


36 posted on 07/12/2014 3:52:53 PM PDT by WKTimpco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Because we have allowed government to define “marriage” for its own purposes (such as taxation and regulation of estates), we have allowed government to define marriage as a social institution. That was fine as long as people in control of government were generally supportive of God’s original definition of marriage. However we have entered a time when a growing number of people in control of government want to redefine marriage for their own purposes, which in part is contrary to God’s definition.

Marriage is now far more a matter of politics and ideology than of private religious beliefs.

Therefore, for the sake of marriage as God defines it, it is time to remove from government the power to define who is married and who is not. Then gays could form whatever relationships they please but they could not force those who disagree to be enablers for those relationships. And we would not have schools that must teach that homosexual “marriages” are just as legitimate as heterosexual ones. Nor would we have owners of wedding photography services being threatened with arrest and being convicted of a crime for merely declining to artfully photograph a “marriage” they find morally repugnant.


37 posted on 07/12/2014 3:55:59 PM PDT by theBuckwheat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tflabo
Must be an intense addiction to break.

Addictions are all tough to break - but what is horrific about the homosexuality addiction is that now society is telling them that it is perfectly OK - and even 'cool'. At least those that are caught in the addiction of drugs, or philandering, or pornography still have the rods of shame and disapproval to help them to realize that they are going in the wrong way, and that they need to pull out of the abyss. But the Sodomites are all being patted on the back as they sink deeper and deeper into sin. It is really horrible what the Media, Society, and now even 'wolves in Sheep clothing' - masquerading as pastors - are doing to these people.

The Sodomites need help and prayers - not people encouraging them to wallow in the mire of sin...

Isaiah 5:20-21 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!

38 posted on 07/12/2014 3:57:17 PM PDT by El Cid (Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: CaptainPhilFan

I will. Thanks Friend


39 posted on 07/12/2014 3:58:51 PM PDT by Shimmer1 (If chocolate fudge cake could sing, it would sound like Barry White.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: theBuckwheat
Because we have allowed government to define “marriage” for its own purposes ...

Government, however, acts at the behest of the people it governs. Consider the Mormon Church which once endorsed polygamy even though it was illegal. In 1890, hey disavowed it. Today, the concept is more popular with reality programs like "Sister Wives". The taboo is gone and there are those who now argue that polygamy should be allowed.

40 posted on 07/12/2014 4:09:20 PM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: huldah1776

Yep!


41 posted on 07/12/2014 4:20:16 PM PDT by JSDude1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: NYer

What does the phrase “affirming his son’s sexual orientation” mean?


42 posted on 07/12/2014 4:20:59 PM PDT by gitmo (If your theology doesn't become your biography, what good is it?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #43 Removed by Moderator

To: JoeFromSidney

>>the homosexual act is something beyond the attraction. <<

Yeah, the desire to abuse your body.


44 posted on 07/12/2014 4:31:14 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Genesis 1

English Standard Version (ESV)

26 Then God said, “Let us make man[h] in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

27 So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.

28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. 30 And to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the heavens and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.” And it was so. 31 And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.


45 posted on 07/12/2014 4:33:13 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fungi
Notice it is always a play on emotion. A rapist finds it hard to change, should he be allowed to become a minister? How about a murderer, or a bank robber, should they be able to continue in their sinful ways and become ministers?

It's ridiculous to compare rapists, murderers, and thieves to homosexuals. You should be ashamed of yourself.

46 posted on 07/12/2014 4:45:55 PM PDT by BfloGuy ( Even the opponents of Socialism are dominated by socialist ideas.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: BfloGuy

Ha Ha, you’re late. See post 29. ‘Nuff said. No need to insult you. Deuteronomy 32:35: “To me belongeth vengeance and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.”


47 posted on 07/12/2014 4:53:27 PM PDT by Fungi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: NYer

““I didn’t want to be gay, and I didn’t want to go to hell.””

Being gay doesn’t condemn you to hell. Being an unrepentant sinner, certainly can. What kind of love is it, that supports someone into hell? Well, that’s not love at all.


48 posted on 07/12/2014 5:11:17 PM PDT by jacknhoo (Luke 12:51. Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, no; but separation.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Tim, now 30, had grown up in his father’s conservative United Methodist church

Right. Yeah. Sure.

FMCDH(BITS)

49 posted on 07/12/2014 6:02:24 PM PDT by nothingnew (Hemmer and MacCullum are the worst on FNC)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I am the grandson and nephew of Methodist ministers. I grew up in the Methodist Church, attended and graduated from Methodist Universities and attended numerous Methodist churches in my life, including a few in Southern New Jersey outside of Philadelphia. In all the churches I have attended, I have never seen a Methodist minister wear a clerical collar.

Is that common in other areas?


50 posted on 07/12/2014 6:36:15 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson