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Pope Reportedly Promises "Solutions" to Priestly Celibacy
Channel News Asia ^ | 7/13/14 | AFP

Posted on 07/13/2014 6:35:41 AM PDT by marshmallow

Pope Francis promised "solutions" to the issue of priestly celibacy in an interview on Sunday that raised the possibility the Catholic Church could eventually lift a ban on married priests, but was quickly refuted by the Vatican

VATICAN CITY: Pope Francis promised "solutions" to the issue of priestly celibacy in an interview on Sunday that raised the possibility the Catholic Church could eventually lift a ban on married priests, but was quickly refuted by the Vatican.

Interviewed by Italy's La Repubblica daily, Francis also condemned child sex abuse as a "leprosy" in the Church and cited his aides as saying that "the level of paedophilia in the Church is at two per cent".

"That two per cent includes priests and even bishops and cardinals," the pope was quoted as saying.

Asked whether priests might one day be allowed to marry, Francis pointed out that celibacy was instituted "900 years after Our Lord's death" and that clerics can marry in some Eastern Churches under Vatican tutelage.

(Excerpt) Read more at channelnewsasia.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; celibacy; pope; popefrancis
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Francis pointed out that celibacy was instituted "900 years after Our Lord's death".........

Say what?

The Spanish Council of Elvira (between 295 and 302) imposed celibacy upon the three higher orders of the clergy; bishops, priests, and deacons and the writing of Church fathers on the desirability of celibacy and the practice of it precedes even this.

Another interview, another damage control operation.

1 posted on 07/13/2014 6:35:41 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

NOT TRUE.

Unless Pope what the pope “says”, comes from Vatican news, it’s NOT true.


2 posted on 07/13/2014 6:37:45 AM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: marshmallow
If you listen to the wives of vicars and ministers, THEY say that celibacy really is better. A man who tries to be FOR ALL the best husband, father and vicar/minister finds that there simply isn't enough time in the day or enough of him to go around for everyone who needs him.

Even the Russian Orthodox don't permit marriage AFTER a man becomes a priest. There must be a reason for that or why would it matter?

3 posted on 07/13/2014 6:42:38 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: marshmallow

I thought RC Deacons could be married?


4 posted on 07/13/2014 6:54:13 AM PDT by headstamp 2
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To: headstamp 2

`My understanding is Deacons can be married if they were married before becoming Deacons. They cannot marry after becoming Deacons.


5 posted on 07/13/2014 7:00:55 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Praise to the Lord the Almighty the King of Creation)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: HerrBlucher

Per Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deacon#Roman_Catholicism

“The permanent diaconate can be conferred on single men 25 or older, and on married men 35 or older, but an older age can be required by the episcopal conference.[14] If a married deacon is widowed, he must maintain the celibate state. Under some very rare circumstances, however, deacons who have been widowed can receive permission to remarry. This is most commonly done when the deacon is left as a single father. In some cases, a widowed deacon will seek priestly ordination, especially if his children are grown.[15] (See also clerical celibacy.) The wife of a permanent deacon may be sometimes considered a partner in his ordained ministry. In many dioceses, the wife of the diaconal candidate undertakes the same education and training her husband does.”


7 posted on 07/13/2014 7:11:12 AM PDT by headstamp 2
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To: marshmallow

which was a local council. Yes, the church in Rome had a tradition of celibacy very early on. When I say Rome I don’t mean the whole western Church. In Ireland in the early days, there were married bishops. In the Orthodox Church they have married priests and celibate monks, the bishops are chosen from among the monks. I think theologically there should be no problem in changing the rules to conform to the Orthodox model —but the stumbling bloc appears to be more political.


8 posted on 07/13/2014 7:12:29 AM PDT by brooklyn dave (The Emperor has no clothes! Nor brains, nor integrity and a host of other attributes.)
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To: headstamp 2

A transitional deacon — the year before he becomes a priest is celibate.

A permanent deacon who serves in a hospital, parish, school, etc. can be married. Their wives accompany them to social functions.


9 posted on 07/13/2014 7:26:23 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation

Yes, the reason I asked was that I attended a funeral service at a funeral home given by a married RC Deacon wearing full vestments.

He gave a very nice service.


10 posted on 07/13/2014 7:34:43 AM PDT by headstamp 2
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To: Kenny Bunk

Kenny,

Yer bein’ judgmental, again.

Perhaps the Alter Boys like it. Purple Priests say so, and surely they wouldn’t lie. Neither would a Pope a closeted commie, nor a Queer be.

Right?

;-)


11 posted on 07/13/2014 7:51:40 AM PDT by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est. Because of what Islam is - and for what Muslims do.)
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To: mgist
"Unless Pope what the pope “says”, comes from Vatican news, it’s NOT true."? Or what is quoted as saying, was not true. (or complete.

Here we go 'round and 'round again...

12 posted on 07/13/2014 7:52:16 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
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To: headstamp 2

Yes. Married men can become deacons. Deacons cannot get married.


13 posted on 07/13/2014 7:53:27 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
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To: GladesGuru

**Alter Boys **

What are they altering? The altar that they serve at? I don’t think so.


14 posted on 07/13/2014 7:56:06 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
My husband's side of the family includes a ton of McNabbs.

McNabb means "son of the Abbot."

15 posted on 07/13/2014 7:57:01 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Department of Redundancy Department.)
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To: brooklyn dave

It’s my understanding that Orthodox priests are still expected to remain unmarried if they were so before their ordination. The difference between Orthodox and Catholic is that married men are allowed to be ordained (with converted, married priests from the Anglican church).


16 posted on 07/13/2014 8:00:41 AM PDT by piusv
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: piusv

Other restrictions on married Orthodox priests:

If his wife predeceases him, the priest cannot remarry.

A married priest cannot become a bishop.


18 posted on 07/13/2014 8:23:37 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: Salvation
What are they altering? The altar that they serve at? I don’t think so.

Their gender identity...

20 posted on 07/13/2014 8:33:12 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: elcid1970
A married priest cannot become a bishop.

But a queer priest or a pedo-priest can...

21 posted on 07/13/2014 8:34:51 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: marshmallow

Local council, and not binding. There were married priests for much longer than that. The concern was that many places the priesthood risked becoming hereditary, and the income and land becoming like a local baron’s. The celibacy rule was to try to keep the control of church land under bishops


22 posted on 07/13/2014 8:47:29 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: narses

Ping!


23 posted on 07/13/2014 8:57:30 AM PDT by PJBankard (You can't fix stupid.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

“Of course Frank ain’t no commie. He’s a strong Christian Socialist. As far as he’s concerned, Karl Marx’s only problem is that he just wasn’t a good Catholic.”

One more like the above and I shall be forced to buy a coffee proof keyboard.

;-)

Marx wasn’t a good Catholic - - - snickers hysterically.

Popie seems to have difficulty understanding the difference between voluntary charity (tithe, whatever) and government taking from one to give to another - a from of theft.

Charity is part of Judeo-Christianity. Theft is forbidden.

Used to be, anyway.


24 posted on 07/13/2014 9:11:58 AM PDT by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est. Because of what Islam is - and for what Muslims do.)
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To: redgolum
I realize that the council of Elvira was a local council. However, the quote in the article says that "celibacy was instituted 900 years after Our Lord's death", as if this was some sort of arbitrary diktat that was handed down out of the blue in opposition to popular custom.

This is definitely not the case and my point was that priestly celibacy dates from apostolic times, the Council of Elvira, in the 3rd century, being one very early example of mandatory imposition of celibacy, albeit local.

It is entirely incorrect to say that "celibacy was instituted 900 years after the death of Our Lord".

25 posted on 07/13/2014 9:39:37 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: elcid1970

yes, thanks for adding those.


26 posted on 07/13/2014 9:45:36 AM PDT by piusv
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To: Iscool
Not canonically. Not if he's known as a pedo or a homosexual.

It's like saying "Embezzlers shouldn't become ministers." Right. If a guy puts "embezzler" on his application to the Board of Deacons/Board of Directors of the Morningstar Baptist Church, they should show him the door!

Has the usual, godly rule "don't hire sodomites and pedos" been ignored by bad bishops, bad seminary rectors? Yes. That's wicked and maddening, but not surprising. Sodomites, like embezzlers, protect their own.

All the problems in the Catholic Church are caused by sinners sinning. Probably true of your church, too.

27 posted on 07/13/2014 9:46:13 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("For the time has come for Judgment to begin at the House of God.." - 1 Peter 4:17)
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To: marshmallow

But it is also incorrect to say celibacy was the norm that early. There are plusses and minuses to both sides. In many Mediterranean cultures, it was viewed as ideal. In places with less popular focus on later Greek philosophy such as Ireland, not so much.

On a practical level, there was a real risk in creating a form of priest nobles


28 posted on 07/13/2014 9:53:12 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: mgist

Who even knows then?

The Pope, himself, said if white is black, it’s black.


29 posted on 07/13/2014 9:56:48 AM PDT by ebb tide
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To: cloudmountain

Also in the Eastern rites of the Catholic Church, plus the other Orthodox churches, a man MUST marry first before being ordained as a priest. When a bishop is appointed, they have to go to the mononstic communities in order to get a bishop if my memory serves me correct.

Plus I do believe the apostle Paul said to Timothy, in one of his letters in the Bible that a bishop should be married only once.


30 posted on 07/13/2014 10:03:12 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Iscool

......Or PLEASE!


31 posted on 07/13/2014 10:16:30 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: headstamp 2

The perminant RC deacons can be, BUT, there is one rule and that, should the wife pre-decesed the deacon, he MUST then become a priest.


32 posted on 07/13/2014 10:20:50 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: marshmallow

Found this after doing some research about the council of Elvira. Never knew there was even one.
\
http://www.earlychurchtexts.com/index.htm


33 posted on 07/13/2014 10:23:05 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: redgolum
The quote contained in the article implies that there was a gap of 900 years from the time of Our Lord's death until the institution of celibacy. Ergo, this was some form of rupture or departure from the practice of the early Church, requiring (to quote the headline), a "solution".

This is where my problem lies since this is a gross distortion and denies the theology and practice of the early Church, starting with St. Paul, who desired that all men might be as himself (1 Corinthians 7:7-8).

We can debate its extent in the early Church but celibacy has its genesis in apostolic times and even before since "..... there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven". (Matthew 19:12).

The "900 years" shtick is fiction.

34 posted on 07/13/2014 10:30:52 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: Mrs. Don-o

All the problems in the Catholic Church are caused by sinners sinning. Probably true of your church, too.

...well, you know, some on this religion forum are of the opinion that that their churches are free from sin...

...to tell them otherwise impinges on their myopia...think of their feelings before you hurt them...


35 posted on 07/13/2014 10:33:05 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
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To: Biggirl; headstamp 2
Correction: if a married permanent deacon's wife dies before he does, he must not remarry, but must remain celibate. He is not required to go on and be ordained a priest.

I understand there is one exceptin to this, and that is if the widowed deacon is left with children in the household to care for, then --- with his bishop's permission --- he may seek to remarry for the children's sake.

This must be very rare; in all my years I have actually not seen this case. But I'm told it's in Canon Law.

36 posted on 07/13/2014 10:38:16 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Most of us know more from being old, than from being told.)
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To: marshmallow
Francis also condemned child sex abuse as a "leprosy" in the Church and cited his aides as saying that "the level of paedophilia in the Church is at two per cent".

Sexual abuse rate according to the John Jay Report:

Priests 1-2%
Ministers 2-3%
Government school teachers 5-10%

Maybe school teachers should be allowed to marry.

37 posted on 07/13/2014 10:41:30 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: cloudmountain
If you listen to the wives of vicars and ministers, THEY say that celibacy really is better. A man who tries to be FOR ALL the best husband, father and vicar/minister finds that there simply isn't enough time in the day or enough of him to go around for everyone who needs him.

If there were more men in the ministry, then they wouldn't be overworked and not have enough time for their families and it wouldn't be an issue.

38 posted on 07/13/2014 10:53:55 AM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith...)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank-you for that teaching correction. Never knew that a widowed permanent deacon does not have to become a priest.

I have a friend who is studying and decerning in my parish becoming one.


39 posted on 07/13/2014 11:03:35 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: marshmallow

Again I agree. I think we are talking past each other. There were strong local movements to enforce priestly celibacy dating back quite far, but it wasn’t mandated for the Roman rite till later.

There are married Catholic priests in other rites as you well know. It is a discipline, not a doctrine.


40 posted on 07/13/2014 11:07:20 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Iscool
But a queer priest or a pedo-priest can...

Not if he has acted upon his desires and it has become known that he did so. Typically if they rise that high it is because no one reported them early enough.

41 posted on 07/13/2014 11:16:23 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Has the usual, godly rule "don't hire sodomites and pedos" been ignored by bad bishops, bad seminary rectors? Yes. That's wicked and maddening, but not surprising...

All the problems in the Catholic Church are caused by sinners sinning. Probably true of your church, too.

For ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God...
Romans 3:23

42 posted on 07/13/2014 11:20:52 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: marshmallow
Here's what has me shaking my head:

"Sunday's edition of La Repubblica devotes its first three pages to an account of a conversation between Pope Francis and editor Eugenio Scalfari..."

My eyes darted up to the dateline to see if this wasn't October 2013. No. It's last week. Yikes!

He AGAIN gave an interview to this Scalfari guy who garbled the first one? Scalfari AGAIN did not digitally record it? Scalfari AGAIN did not take written notes? It's AGAIN full of ambiguous stuff which guarantees pain to the faithful, confusion to sincere inquirers, and -- should I dare say, plausible deniability?

I'm not drawing conclusions. I'm just watching, eyebrows climbing toward my hairline.

43 posted on 07/13/2014 11:25:19 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Most of us know more from being old, than from being told.)
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To: metmom
If there were more men in the ministry, then they wouldn't be overworked and not have enough time for their families and it wouldn't be an issue.

Perhaps so.
For a priest his LIFE is service to God. For a minister, it would have to be less, even if there were more ministers. A man can't give 100% to both, can he?

Being a minister isn't a 9-5 job. It's a calling.

44 posted on 07/13/2014 11:47:02 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Oh good catch...interesting indeed.


45 posted on 07/13/2014 11:51:55 AM PDT by piusv
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To: piusv

This pattern of non-recording implies consent of the Vatican — they want no hard record of the interviews. What is the agenda here? Hmmmm....


46 posted on 07/13/2014 11:56:55 AM PDT by steve86 ( Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: marshmallow

Wait………..I thought celibacy for priests was a voluntary thing. Don’t Catholics tell us that all the time here?


47 posted on 07/13/2014 12:10:17 PM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: marshmallow
This is definitely not the case and my point was that priestly celibacy dates from apostolic times, the Council of Elvira, in the 3rd century, being one very early example of mandatory imposition of celibacy, albeit local.

3rd century is not apostolic times...Apostolic times ended before 100 A.D....

48 posted on 07/13/2014 12:27:57 PM PDT by Iscool
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Pope Francis should simply not have Mr. Scalfari interview him anymore, cannot get the answers right.


49 posted on 07/13/2014 12:32:24 PM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
All the problems in the Catholic Church are caused by sinners sinning. Probably true of your church, too.

Could be true...But no one in my church promotes queers or any one unmarried to higher positions...In fact, there are no higher positions than a pastor or elder...

50 posted on 07/13/2014 12:32:41 PM PDT by Iscool
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