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The Subterranean Temple
Chabad.org ^ | 1981 | Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, ZT'L

Posted on 07/15/2014 4:39:23 AM PDT by Phinneous

I am asleep, but my heart is awake

Song of Songs 5:2

Our sages tell us that “when King Solomon built the Holy Temple, knowing that it was destined to be destroyed, he built a place in which to hide the Ark, [at the end of] hidden, deep, winding passageways.”1 It was there that King Josiah placed the Ark twenty-two years before the Temple’s destruction, as related in the Book of Chronicles.2

(Excerpt) Read more at chabad.org ...


TOPICS: History; Judaism; Prayer
KEYWORDS: prayer; repentance; temple; torah
No offense to Indiana Jones, but Jews have known the location of the Ark of the Covenant since it was hidden. I understand there is a belief or way of thinking by non-Jews that the destruction of the Holy Temple abrogates the performance of the commandments in the Torah (G-d forbid) or nullifies our Covenant with Him-- far from the truth.

Today, Tuesday July 15th 2014, is the 17th day of the Hebrew month of Tammuz, 5774, a fast day for able-bodied Jews. 3327 years ago on this day, Moses broke the tablets he brought down from Mt. Sinai (see Charlton Heston or Mel Brooks for innacurate representations.) Between now and the 9th of the Hebrew month of Av (3 weeks from today) Jews commemorate events in our history that had not-positive outcomes (Breaking the Tablets, breaching the walls of Jerusalem by Babylon, leading and up to the...) The 9th of Av marks the destruction of the first Holy Temple by Nebuchadnezzar (and the second Temple by Rome on the same Hebrew date.) So we customarily study the know details about the Temple(s.) --their dimensions, materials, purposes, usage.

This essay describes the most fundamental point about the Temple--it was never, in essence, destroyed. The Holy Ark remains buried beneath the mount, never to be found by the willing-to-desecrate WAKF Arabs, and only to be revealed by the Messiah when he comes. At that time the Ark will be brought up to it's place again within the Holy of Holies in the third, eternal Temple.

It's a short essay, particularly relevant to (the vast majority of) those who seek to do G-d's will but have until this moment-- and no longer-- fallen short.

When in the last short paragraph the Rebbe writes "...furtive, convoluted path..." [to the hidden chamber of the Ark] he is alluding that we all have this inner resting place of the 10 commandments (the Ark and its contents, the distilled essence of the 613 Commandments) within us, waiting to be tapped, however difficult the path of discovery. Within each of us is a miniature Holy Temple, in all of it's power. We can each reveal G-d's glory with acts of kindness and with personal, complete repentance, and hasten Moshiach's coming, speedily in our days.

1 posted on 07/15/2014 4:39:23 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous; Zionist Conspirator

Ping— wondering if you’ve seen this concept before.


2 posted on 07/15/2014 7:22:23 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

Re: your comment about the hastening of the coming of Messiah.

Don’t you have a statement somewhere in your Talmud about, your Messiah cannot come until the world has become entirely good or entirely evil? And since the former is not going to happen (the world entirely good), the latter is what will bring your Messiah in (the world entirely evil). From the looks of things, your Messiah cannot be that far off!

According to Rabbi Marvin Antelman, that effort to hasten the coming of your Messiah has been ongoing for sometime now - I refer to his classic, “To Eliminate the Opiate.”

His book is quite an eye opener, in it he reveals the subversive, behind the scenes, Sabbatai Zevi-Jacob Frank-Adam Wisehaoupt’s Illuminati- Rothschild-Karl Marx-Socialism/Communism-Haskala-Reform Judaism connection. Doing what I mentioned above, the making of the world evil (by the subversive hand of Socialism, eliminating the “opiate,” i.e., belief in God, in both conservative Christianity and orthodox Judaism) in order that Messiah can come.

Antelman’s book, and he himself, himself bitterly opposed to all of this, and apparently a Chabad himself, you fellows must be aware of. If so, what is your opinion of Antelman’s Sabbataen subversion of the world in order to bring in Messiah? Surely that is not what you meant, when you spoke of “hastening” the coming of your Messiah?


3 posted on 07/15/2014 8:13:42 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: Phinneous

But, doesn’t Second Maccabees say it was buried in a cave in Jordan?


4 posted on 07/15/2014 8:25:21 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: Phinneous
In other words, the Holy Temple was initially designed and built to exist in two states: a revealed state and a concealed state

This sentence in the article really struck my heart as His Word says,

Jer 3:16 “And it shall be, when you have increased, and shall bear fruit in the land in those days,” declares יהוה, “that they no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of יהוה.’ Neither would it come to heart, nor would they remember it, nor would they visit it, nor would it be made again. 17 “At that time Yerushalayim shall be called the throne of יהוה, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the Name of יהוה, to Yerushalayim, and no longer walk after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

According to His Word, the Ark represents Moschiach. Yeshua is the Moshiach, and since He is no longer concealed but has been revealed through His death and resurrection, it is only through Him, the Ark of the covenant of Elohim, that Israel will be regathered, healed and restored. This is the reason the Ark was never in the 2nd temple and the reason it no longer exists. We are to focus on Moshiach and follow the example of His faith & testimony rather than continuing to focus on an object made by the hands of men.

Shalom Alecheim!

5 posted on 07/15/2014 8:26:44 AM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: sasportas

I had never heard of Rabbi Antelman but from a brief look (including reading a summary of volumes 1 and 2 of To Eliminate the Opiate) I do not believe his facts/statements nor do I agree with his conclusions—ie, a vast effort to make the world ‘entirely evil.’ These are not literal statements (make the world entirely this or that....) and not actionable in normative Judaism.

Anyway, yes, we fulfill the actionable commandments (613 for Jews, 7 for non-Jews) happily, to hasten the coming of Moshiach.


6 posted on 07/15/2014 8:27:49 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

Thanks for your reply. I was under the impression Rabbi Antelman would be well known among you (I speak of the Chabad), his book being written from the Chabad standpoint - opposed to all forms of liberal Judaism.


7 posted on 07/15/2014 8:35:53 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: sasportas

From his picture (a picture paints 1000 words, etc) and his lack of mention on normal Chabad sites, I do not think he is a Lubavitcher (Chabad fellow.) His book is not from a normative Orthodox/Chabad standpoint.

We are not ‘opposed’ to, rather we do not enable Reform/liberal/etc Judaism and their tenants. They are Jews (the ones born to Jewish mothers) with all the same rights/obligations/privileges/rewards... even if they don’t accept that yet ;)


8 posted on 07/15/2014 8:47:05 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

Antelman made it clear where he stood on non-Orthodox Judaism. He says Reform Judaism, Haskala, and to a lesser extent, Conservative Judaism, do not keep the 613 commandments, make excuses to not do so because they live in modern society. It thus seems your kind of Chabad is not as strong as his.

But this hasn’t got that much to do with my original post, i.e., your statement about hastening the coming of your Messiah. Just how are you folks doing this, since, according to the Talmud, the world has to be evil for him to come?

By the way, Antelman did not invent all this about Sabbatai, Frank, etc., we’re talking historical events here, most of his book is based on the writings of the late professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, Gershom Sholem. He documents the connecting of his “dots,” I find his documenting of them hard to refute.


9 posted on 07/15/2014 9:36:20 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: Phinneous

When they say tunnels in the ancient world, they can mean it. In the former Roman province of Syria, which is now in Jordan, the Romans built an underground aqueduct that is over 66 miles long. With walls plastered with water resistant mortar.

Some of the underground passageways run up to 80 meters (262 feet) below the surface. It eventually ends up in a series of three tunnels, one of which is about as long as the main tunnel, the other two of which are 1 and 11km in length.

Granted, Solomon ruled about a thousand years before then, but tunnel building was well established long before then.


10 posted on 07/15/2014 9:44:00 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy ("Don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative." -Obama, 09-24-11)
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To: sasportas

One cannot draw an obligation from just any story or statement in the Talmud, (think of it as “actionable intel.” if you were ever in the military. Much of the Talmud isn’t up for interpretation or inference on what a Jew must or mustn’t do.)

That being said, “Just how are we folks doing this since...”
The world is still in judgement— and it can still go either way. In fact, your proof text is homiletic (not actionable intel,) just like a statement from the halachic (actionable Jewish religious law) codifier and master, Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (Maimoneded of Medieval Spain,) that “The world stands in judgement constantly, and we must view each [good deed] as being the one that can push the scale towards a righteous judgement...(to paraphrase)” Also not-actionable intelligence, except to inspire Jews (and righteous gentiles) to do one more and yet even one more ‘mitzvah’ (commandment, good deed) to tip the scales.

In short, don’t worry about the Jews and the Talmud.... just do good.

Last note, it is frustrating, I admit— waiting and waiting and reliving every single day like today is the day. But like I’ve mentioned in another back-and-forth before with other Freepers (and assuming you are a devout Christian,) we both know a sort of waiting game don’t we?


11 posted on 07/15/2014 9:53:22 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: patlin; Ruy Dias de Bivar

“This is the reason the Ark was never in the 2nd temple and the reason it no longer exists”

This is completely erroneous according to Judaism. So we can agree to disagree. I guess, to be scriptural, one must find the text that talks of the destruction (G-d forbid) of the Ark. The premise here is that it is buried beneath the Temple Mount.

RDB— That is not in the Jewish canon...


12 posted on 07/15/2014 10:08:12 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous

You may not draw an obligation from this particular Talmud quote, but it is clear from Antelman’s book, and from Sholem’s writings which he drew from, that a particular line of Jews (Sabbatai, Frank, etc.), in anticipation of the Messiah like yourself, certainly did! How one interprets such Talmudic statements as this can have great consequences, whether his interpretation is correct or not is irrelevant.

About me worrying. I am not in the least worrying about what you folks do to hasten the coming of your Messiah. I’ve “read the back of the book,” I know who wins in the end.

My interest in Antelman and this hastening the coming of the Messiah business has to do with Bible prophecy.


13 posted on 07/15/2014 10:26:48 AM PDT by sasportas
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To: Phinneous

Thank you for that fascinating article.

It reminds me of the wonderful line from Psalm 119:’’Thy Word i have hidden in my heart, that I might not sin against Thee”.

The article paints a beautiful picture of the Ark hidden in the earth, Much like us hiding G-d’s law in our hearts for the time of evil, when the written Word is taken away from us.

I am a Christian, and found this article to be harmonious with my beliefs.

Pray For the Peace of Jerusalem.


14 posted on 07/15/2014 10:28:12 AM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Phinneous
Father Longenecker is a great priest. You hate him because he used to be a protestant.

I have heard that the Ark is hidden beneath the site of the Temple, yes, and I have heard of "descent for the sake of a later ascent."

This was a beautiful word from the Rebbe. Thank you for sharing it with us all.

15 posted on 07/15/2014 11:45:56 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: sasportas
Antelman is not Chabad. So far as I know, he is a Modern Orthodox Jew.

I own and have read both volumes of his work. I'm sure there is some truth to his theory (I've become leery of conspiracy theories), but some of his ideas are kind of "out there."

16 posted on 07/15/2014 11:47:58 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
But, doesn’t Second Maccabees say it was buried in a cave in Jordan?

But since Second Maccabees was written after the Men of the Great Assembly had closed the scriptural canon, then it is not inspired . . . is it?

17 posted on 07/15/2014 11:50:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: sasportas

The challenge with the statement “...that a particular line of Jews (Sabbatai, Frank, etc.), in anticipation of the Messiah like yourself [me] certainly did [draw an obligation]”

is that they concocted obligations that were outside of and not permissible by the code of Jewish law— they were unwittingly sinning at best, heretics at worst. You can’t draw conclusions about normative Orthodox Jewry from those examples. Orthodox Jews want to increase in the performance of mitzvas (commandments) and in Torah learning (which is in itself a commandment for Jews.)

I’m afraid you cannot draw conclusions about Bible prophesy (Jewish or end-of-the-bookish) with those examples.


18 posted on 07/15/2014 11:57:30 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: Phinneous; sasportas
Rabbi Mosheh (Marvin) Antelman is an activist Revisionist (Jabotinsky) Zionist and a Modern Orthodox rabbi who at one time was head of the "Supreme Rabbinic Court of America." Though not a member of the JBS he cooperated with them on certain issues and occasionally wrote for their magazines. Unlike them, he had a negative attitude towards Senator Joseph McCarthy (at least in his first volume; I don't know if his opinion has changed).

Antelman believes in the Illuminati conspiracy theory, and in fact that the liberal "branches of Judaism" are part of that conspiracy, originating in the Sabbatean and Frankist movements. Allegedly many liberal Jews are Frankists and promote sin and evil to make the world entirely wicked so Mashiach can come. Of course, this is not at all necessary to explain liberalism.

He also has some very strange ideas. He believes that Adolf Hitler (y'sh"v!) was conceived in a Frankist ceremony on the night of Tish`ah Be'Av 5648 for the express purpose of killing great numbers of Jews.

But where he really goes off on his own is his belief that the traditional Jewish liturgy has been subverted by sinister forces. According to him, the ner tamid in 'Ashkenazi synagogues was introduced by subversive forces in the "eighteenth century." He also believes two prayers in the Siddur are heretical: the 'Af Beri part of the Prayer for Rain recited on Shemini `Atzeret, and the much-beloved Unetanneh Toqef prayer recited on the High Holy Days. For the former, he says that the Oral Torah specifically states that G-d Himself is directly responsible for the rain (no angel involved) and that Rav `Amnon in the latter prayer is actually based on a very anti-Jewish Sufi moslem who lived a few centuries earlier.

Judge for yourself.

19 posted on 07/15/2014 12:02:33 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: sasportas; Phinneous
Antelman made it clear where he stood on non-Orthodox Judaism. He says Reform Judaism, Haskala, and to a lesser extent, Conservative Judaism, do not keep the 613 commandments, make excuses to not do so because they live in modern society. It thus seems your kind of Chabad is not as strong as his.

Antelman is not Chassidic. He is Modern Orthodox. If you don't know the differences among all the various strains of Orthodoxy, then you don't know much about Judaism.

There is a difference in opposing phony Judaisms and opposing the genuine Halakhic Jews who make up those movements. One's classification as a Jew does not depend on how Orthodox one is. All that matters is that one was born to a Jewish mother. An atheist born to a Jewish mother is still Jewish. Similarly, most (though by no means all) Jews who participate in these liberal movements are genuine Jews, though their versions of "Judaism" aren't real Judaism at all.

It is a major commandment in Judaism to love all Jews, even the "bad" ones. Orthodox Jews can and do oppose and expose phony liberal counterfeit versions of Judaism, but they cannot declare the members to be "not real Jews" if they are in fact Halakhically Jewish.

This is very different from chrstianity. You'll never understand Judaism if you insist on viewing it through a chrstian prism.

20 posted on 07/15/2014 12:08:18 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Please ignore the quote beginning my post #15. It is left over from a post to someone else on another thread.

I highlighted your quote, but apparently I forgot to click on "copy." I'm surprised that doesn't happen more often than it does.

21 posted on 07/15/2014 12:10:16 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: Phinneous; sasportas
Phinneous, I have read both of Antelman's books. Sasportas may not be an expert on Judaism, but he was not accusing Orthodox Jews of trying to bring Mashiach by sinning. He is following Antelman, who says that the Sabbateans and Frankists still exist, that they are the liberal Jews of today, and that they created the other so-called "branches of Judaism."
22 posted on 07/15/2014 12:12:46 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: sasportas; Phinneous
You may not draw an obligation from this particular Talmud quote, but it is clear from Antelman’s book, and from Sholem’s writings which he drew from, that a particular line of Jews (Sabbatai, Frank, etc.), in anticipation of the Messiah like yourself, certainly did! How one interprets such Talmudic statements as this can have great consequences, whether his interpretation is correct or not is irrelevant.

About me worrying. I am not in the least worrying about what you folks do to hasten the coming of your Messiah. I’ve “read the back of the book,” I know who wins in the end.

My interest in Antelman and this hastening the coming of the Messiah business has to do with Bible prophecy.

The fact that someone had the bright idea to include the "new testament" between the same covers as the TaNa"KH does not make it true. I have learned the futility of trying to reason with you people about this, but it's still so.

You sound very much like someone who believes the "bible" prophesies about "the Jews" as the bad guys in the chrstian eschaton and that these Sabbateans and Frankists fit that bill for you. You seem to regard Orthodox Jews (whom you seem to think are all "Chabad") are the few good Jews left, just waiting to be converted to chrstianity at the "second coming." If all this is true, then I am afraid you are very ignorant on most of these topics.

I hope you aren't one of those "synagogue of Satan" people. A miserable little Nazi who accused Orthodox Jews of worshiping "Satan" was just banned a few weeks ago.

23 posted on 07/15/2014 12:20:11 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Throne and Altar! [In Jerusalem!!!])
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To: Zionist Conspirator

“But since Second Maccabees was written after the Men of the Great Assembly had closed the scriptural canon, then it is not inspired . . . is it?”

Only to Catholics, and even then, only since the Reformation, to spite the Protestants.


24 posted on 07/15/2014 4:38:01 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Phinneous
Jer 3:16 “And it shall be, when you have increased, and shall bear fruit in the land in those days,” declares יהוה, “that they no longer say, ‘The ark of the covenant of יהוה.’ Neither would it come to heart, nor would they remember it, nor would they visit it, nor would it (be made) (asah) again. 17 “At that time Yerushalayim shall be called the throne of יהוה, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the Name of יהוה, to Yerushalayim, and no longer walk after the stubbornness of their evil heart.

JPS: Jer 3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye are multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more: The ark of the covenant of the LORD; neither shall it come to mind; neither shall they make mention of it; neither shall they miss it; neither shall it (be made) (asah) any more.

If something still exists, it would need to be made again now would it?

25 posted on 07/15/2014 9:53:52 PM PDT by patlin ("Knowledge is a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking 2011)
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To: patlin

You are using a mistranslation to attempt to arrive at a “prophesy” that fits missionary (or just stock Christian) replacementism. Sorry, it’s been argued throughout the centuries already.

http://m.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16000#showrashi=true


26 posted on 07/16/2014 3:46:20 AM PDT by Phinneous
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To: patlin
To clarify, I thought your first post was somehow saying "ash," as in the ark was made into ash or destroyed.... (I see it is a transliteration.) What remains is the interpretation and it remains an agreement to disagree. The Jewish commentators render the phrase in question [Vih-Lo ye-ah-seh] as "will not be done." What will not be done anymore? ...Taking the Ark into battle... Here is a Christian site with the same rendering: http://biblehub.com/text/jeremiah/3-16.htm The root עשה is "to make" or "to do" This is not a trick of the text...it is used interchangeably in thousands of places.
27 posted on 07/16/2014 7:43:18 AM PDT by Phinneous
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