Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is There Growing Confusion over Church Teaching?
Crisis Magazine ^ | July 16, 2014 | Dr. William Oddie

Posted on 07/16/2014 4:18:13 AM PDT by NYer

I begin with a piece, spotted by Fr Tim Finigan and reported in his indispensable blog The Hermeneutic of Continuity, which had been published in Sandro Magister’s blog—not his English one, Chiesa, but his Italian language blog for L’Espresso, Settimo Cielo.

A few days ago, Magister told the story of a parish priest in the Italian diocese of Novara, Fr Tarcisio Vicario, who recently discussed the question of Holy Communion for the divorced and remarried. This is how he explained the Church’s teaching on the matter: “For the Church, which acts in the name of the Son of God, marriage between the baptised is alone and always a sacrament. Civil marriage and cohabitation are not a sacrament. Therefore those who place themselves outside of the Sacrament by contracting civil marriage are living a continuing infidelity. One is not treating of sin committed on one occasion (for example a murder), nor an infidelity through carelessness or habit, where conscience in any case calls us back to the duty of reforming ourselves by means of sincere repentance and a true and firm purpose of distancing ourselves from sin and from the occasions which lead to it.”

Pretty unexceptionable, one would have thought.

His bishop, the Bishop of Novara, however, slapped down Fr Tarcisio’s “unacceptable equation, even though introduced as an example, between irregular cohabitation and murder. The use of the example, even if written in brackets, proves to be inappropriate and misleading, and therefore wrong.”

Fr Tim comments that “Fr Vicario did not ‘equate’ irregular cohabitation and murder. His whole point was that they are different—one is a permanent state where the person does not intend to change their situation, the other is a sin committed on a particular occasion where a properly formed conscience would call the person to repent and not commit the sin again.”

It was bad enough that Fr Tarcisio should be publicly attacked by his own bishop simply for propagating the teachings of the Church. Much more seriously, Fr Tarcisio was then slapped down from Rome itself, by no less a person than the curial Cardinal Lorenzo Baldisseri, who said that the words of Fr Tarcisio were “crazy [‘una pazzia’], a strictly personal opinion of a parish priest who does not represent anyone, not even himself.” Cardinal Baldisseri, it may be remembered, is the Secretary General of the Synod of Bishops, and therefore of the forthcoming global extravaganza on the family. This does not exactly calm one’s fears about the forthcoming Synod: for, of course, it is absurd and theologically illiterate to say that Fr Tarcisio’s words were “a strictly personal opinion of a parish priest who does not represent anyone, not even himself” (whatever that means): for, on the contrary, they quite simply accurately represent the teaching of the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church.

Sandro Magister tellingly at this point quotes the words of Thomas, Cardinal Collins, Archbishop of Toronto, who was appointed in January this year as one of the five members of the Commission of Cardinals Overseeing the Institute for the Works of Religion, and who at about the same time as Fr Tarcisio was being slapped down from the beating heart of curial Rome, was saying almost exactly the same thing as he had:

Many people who are divorced, and who are not free to marry, do enter into a second marriage. … The point is not that they have committed a sin; the mercy of God is abundantly granted to all sinners. Murder, adultery, and any other sins, no matter how serious, are forgiven by Jesus, especially through the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and the forgiven sinner receives communion. The issue in the matter of divorce and remarriage is one’s conscious decision (for whatever reason) to persist in a continuing situation of disconnection from the command of Jesus … it would not be right for them to receive the sacraments….

What exactly is going on, when Bishops and parish priests can so radically differ about the most elementary issues of faith and morals—about teachings which are quite clearly explained in the Catechism of the Catholic Church—and when simultaneously one Cardinal describes such teachings as “crazy” and another simply expounds them as the immemorial teachings of the Church? Does nobody know what the Church believes any more?

The question brought me back powerfully, once more, to one of the most haunting blogs I have read for some time, one to which I have been returning repeatedly since I read it last Friday. It is very short, so here it is in full; I am tempted to call it Fr Blake’s last post (one can almost hear his bugle sounding over sad shires):

It is four months since Protect the Pope went into “a period of prayer and reflection” at the direction of Bishop Campbell, someone recently asked me why I tend not to post so often as I did, and I must say I have been asking the same question about other bloggers.

The reign of Benedict produced a real flourish of ‘citizen journalists’, the net was alive with discussion on what the Pope was saying or doing and how it affected the life of our own local Church. Looking at some of my old posts they invariably began with quote or picture followed by a comment, Benedict stimulated thought, reflection and dialogue, an open and free intellectual environment. There was a solidity and certainty in Benedict’s teaching which made discussion possible and stimulated intellectual honesty, one knew where the Church and the Pope stood. Today we are in less certain times, the intellectual life of the Church is thwart with uncertainty.

Most Catholics but especially clergy want to be loyal to the Pope in order to maintain the unity of the Church, today that loyalty is perhaps best expressed through silence.

I look at my own blogging, and see that I perfectly exemplify this. More and more, my heart just isn’t in it; and I blog less than I did. Now, increasingly, I feel that silence is all. Under Benedict, there was vigorously under way a glorious battle, an ongoing struggle, focused on and motivated by the pope himself, to get back to the Church the Council intended, a battle for the hermeneutic of continuity. It was a battle we felt we were winning. Then came the thunderbolt of Benedict’s resignation.

After an agonizing interregnum, a new pope was elected, a good and holy man with a pastoral heart. All seemed to be well, though he was not dogmatically inclined as Benedict had been: all that was left to the CDF. I found myself explaining that Francis was hermeneutically absolutely Benedictine, entirely orthodox, everything a pope should be, just with a different way of operating. I still believe all that. But here is increasingly a sense of uncertainty in the air, which cannot be ignored. “One knew where the Church and the Pope stood” says Fr Blake. Now, we have a Pope who can be adored by such enemies of the Catholic Church as the arch abortion supporter Jane Fonda, who tweeted last year “Gotta love new Pope. He cares about poor, hates dogma.”

In other words, for Fonda and her like, the Church is no longer a dogmatic entity, no longer a threat. That’s what the world now supposes: everything is in a state of flux. The remarried will soon, they think, be told they can receive Holy Communion as unthinkingly as everyone else: that’s what Cardinal Kasper implied at the consistory in February. Did the pope agree with him? There appears to be some uncertainty, despite the fact that the Holy Father had already backed Cardinal Mueller’s insistence that nothing has changed.

We shall see what we shall see at the Synod, which I increasingly dread. Once that is out of the way, we will be able to assess where we all stand. But whatever happens now, it seems, the glad confident morning of Benedict’s pontificate has gone, never again to return; and I (and it seems many others) have less we feel we can say.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: benedict; catholic; doctrine; eucharist; francis; magisterium; pope; popebenedict; popefrancis; sacraments; vatican
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 451-468 next last

1 posted on 07/16/2014 4:18:13 AM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick; GregB; Berlin_Freeper; SumProVita; narses; bboop; SevenofNine; Ronaldus Magnus; tiki; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 07/16/2014 4:18:56 AM PDT by NYer ("You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears." James 4:14)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All

CATHOLIC CAUCUS


3 posted on 07/16/2014 4:21:14 AM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Plenty of divorced and remarried folks go to communion.

Should they wear a big "A" on their forehead so the priests knows to pass them by.

Sorry....I believe the church is wrong in the matter. If you wish to go to communion, do it.

4 posted on 07/16/2014 4:39:13 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

...interesting stuff...

...gotta love Pope Benedict...all that dogma and such...


5 posted on 07/16/2014 4:39:44 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

Sorry....I believe the church is wrong in the matter. If you wish to go to communion, do it.

...hmmm...can of worms alert...


6 posted on 07/16/2014 4:41:56 AM PDT by IrishBrigade (')
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer

“Is there growing confusion ...”?

I don’t think so. There’s ignorance, but that’s easily remedied by reading the Catechism. There’s discussion, but this need not generate “confusion” if one has read the Catechism. There’s rejection, but it’s disingenuous to pretend one doesn’t understand what one chooses to reject.


7 posted on 07/16/2014 5:02:46 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

Your not serious? Advising folks to make sacrilegious Communions? That advise is straight from the pit of hell.


8 posted on 07/16/2014 5:06:15 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer
LOL, can't imagine why we would have to put this in caucus. Just kidding!

I found the part about the bloggers meeting Pope Francis with silence to be very interesting. Without thinking about it, I would have to say I have been mostly silent about Pope Francis.

I had come to the conclusion that I was silent because he is not John Paul II who will always be whom I think of when someone says the Pope. My subconscious always goes there. The Pope of my youth. When he became Pope I was 14, he lit us on fire for the faith. Then came Benedict.

Granted Papa Bene, not as charismatic as JPII, but I so enjoyed reading his words. Such clarity and went beautifully with what JPII had taught us.

That brings us to Pope Francis. What to do about Pope Francis? I think he is a .... fill in the blank. He is not good at being Pope. In my head I think well maybe he should not be Pope.

But is that fair? Am I being fair to the Holy Father? He was born under Pius XI, entered a novitiate under Pius XII, was teaching theology during Blessed John XXIII, ordained under Paul VI. Then served under John Paul I and John Paul II. That is a fair amount of diversity of style there.

When I heard he was elected I was mortified to tell the truth. A Jesuit from Argentina? Maybe I still am! In an effort to understand him. I have profiled him so to speak. I am by no means done, nor am I professional profiler but I think it is interesting to point out that he spent most of his time in academia. He was not a parish priest

It does not seem that he is used to dealing with parishioners and ordinary people. So maybe this off the wall stuff he says is because he is used to the debate that used to go on in classrooms before they became indoctrination centers?

What say you?

9 posted on 07/16/2014 5:10:54 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
Plenty of divorced and remarried folks go to communion.

And plenty of Congress critters call themselves Catholic and support infanticide, does that make it right?

Should they wear a big "A" on their forehead so the priests knows to pass them by.

Might not be a bad idea.

Sorry....I believe the church is wrong in the matter. If you wish to go to communion, do it.

I am certain that even a cursory examination of the Yellow pages will assist you in finding a church more to your liking. I hear the Anglicans and Presbyterians have made some interesting changes to their teachings lately.

10 posted on 07/16/2014 5:15:30 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: verga
Whether someone goes to communion or not does not require your permissions or my permission or the church's permission. Or do you think you are better than everyone?

Pssst...Infanticide and communion are apples and oranges.

11 posted on 07/16/2014 5:20:51 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: defconw

“When I heard he was elected I was mortified to tell the truth.”

Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?


12 posted on 07/16/2014 5:28:13 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

It depends on what communion is to you, and the risks for receiving it in a improper manner.

The issue is this.
1. If you divorce but don’t remarry, then all is OK. Civil divorce doesn’t affect your church marriage.
2. If you divorce and remarry, then you are not really remarried but living in adultery.
3. With issue #2, there are cases where the second marriage has children and family, and the first spouse has remarried also. What is the proper course now? The remarried person is living in a state of active sin, and therefore receiving communion would be to their determent (see St. Paul). But at some point, splitting up the second family would not good, or even possible. So how is that handled?

The real underlining reason is that for most of the USA and the West, “marriage” doesn’t mean anything. It is a short term arrangement. Now I know of many marriages who have failed because one spouse unilaterally split. That places the abandoned spouse in a hard place. But the risk is in removing the prohibitions on remarried persons receiving communion you put the persons souls in danger, and further cheapen the institution of marriage itself.


13 posted on 07/16/2014 5:31:52 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore
Of course it does. That does not mean a blind allegiance to every word he utters. It takes discernment and if necessary a bending of will, my will not his at least in areas of faith and morals. His politics, not so much

But some points to think about. 1. Maybe we have sucked so bad this century and the later half of the last, that the Holy Spirit is making a point? 2. I can be mortified and still be a Catholic. 3. Not all of our Popes have been stellar. 4. I can be wrong, it happens every now and again. :)

He's also not been as bad as I thought. he's not a total Marxist, but sometimes he's portrayed as such. In some ways, I do see what he's saying. When taken out of the context of politics I really have only a few problems with him. But in political philosophy I do have problems with him. But in fairness to him, these things are not being said in English for me to hear. I have to rely on an increasingly unreliable media who is also increasingly dishonest. I find myself wondering, did he say that? Or is this out of context or misspoken? Is whatever he said being twisted to fulfill some lefty dream? Not sure.

As I pointed out in my post above, does he say what he says as a literal matter or is he trying to provoke thought? I went to a wedding once where Father's first line of the homily was: Marriage is death! Pause! Now if you are Catholic it's didn't blow your mind or at least it shouldn't. But to the non-Catholics it may have seemed a strange way to start a wedding.

14 posted on 07/16/2014 5:52:01 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: NYer
"What exactly is going on, when Bishops and parish priests can so radically differ about the most elementary issues of faith and morals"

One of the most tragic divisions within Christianity is the one between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox churches. Both have valid holy orders and apostolic succession through the episcopacy, both celebrate the same sacraments, both believe almost exactly the same theology, and both proclaim the same faith in Christ. from "Eastern Orthodoxy" Catholic Answers

With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord's Eucharist" (Paul VI, Discourse, 14 December 1975; cf. Unitatis redintegratio 13-18). Catechism of the Catholic Church 838

15 posted on 07/16/2014 5:58:02 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Is the growing confusion over Church teaching?

'Who am I to judge?'

16 posted on 07/16/2014 6:00:12 AM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brian Kopp DPM

Now that was funny!


17 posted on 07/16/2014 6:01:58 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

And commit a sacrilegious mortal sin?


18 posted on 07/16/2014 6:06:18 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau
Whether someone goes to communion or not does not require your permissions or my permission or the church's permission.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/who-can-receive-communion

guidelines for the reception of communion

As Catholics, we fully participate in the celebration of the Eucharist when we receive Holy Communion. We are encouraged to receive Communion devoutly and frequently. In order to be properly disposed to receive Communion, participants should not be conscious of grave sin and normally should have fasted for one hour. A person who is conscious of grave sin is not to receive the Body and Blood of the Lord without prior sacramental confession except for a grave reason where there is no opportunity for confession. In this case, the person is to be mindful of the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, including the intention of confessing as soon as possible (canon 916). A frequent reception of the Sacrament of Penance is encouraged for all.

Reception of Holy Communion by the Divorced and Remarried Members of the Faithful.

ARTICLE 2:PARTICIPATION IN THE BLESSED EUCHARIST Canons 915 and 916

Can. 915 Those upon whom the penalty of excommunication or interdict has been imposed or declared, and others who obstinately persist in manifest grave sin, are not to be admitted to holy communion.

Can. 916 Anyone who is conscious of grave sin may not celebrate Mass or receive the Body of the Lord without previously having been to sacramental confession, unless there is a grave reason and there is no opportunity to confess; in this case the person is to remember the obligation to make an act of perfect contrition, which includes the resolve to go to confession as soon as possible.

Or do you think you are better than everyone? Everyone? No just better than you apparently. I have shown you the USCCB and the canon law that are applicable.

Pssst...Infanticide and communion are apples and oranges.

Actually I was referring to the reception of receiving communion while in a state of grave/ mortal sin. and since they are both grave sins you would be receiving in an unworthy manner

1 Corinthians 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.

Here is the part where you say "oops I was wrong" or begin church shopping.

19 posted on 07/16/2014 6:09:54 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Correct, as far as I am concerned the best and worst thing the Church ever did was the CCC. Best because it's cheaply priced for the size, it's available it's clearly written.

Worst thing if you are one of those gray fuzzy people who like to pretend there are gray areas. Because if you read the thing, there is no gray! I love the CCC. When I get static from a certain sector I say have you read the CCC, no?. You should is what I say. No excuses! No more hiding behind the I didn't understand the Encyclical etc.

Being Catholic is great! It's also a contact sport and it sure ain't easy a lot of times!

20 posted on 07/16/2014 6:22:10 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Is There Growing Confusion over Church Teaching?

Not according to the Nancy Pelosis and other famous "catholic leaders" of our time.

Their teachings on matters of Catholic doctrine are widely distributed throughout pop culture and fairly well known these days.

21 posted on 07/16/2014 6:45:22 AM PDT by GBA (Here in the Matrix, life is but a dream.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: redgolum

That was why the Eastern Orthodox practice in regards to marriage was looked at early this year.


22 posted on 07/16/2014 6:47:49 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: defconw
Your comment mirrors my own thoughts. Francis tends to speak off the cuff; the problem is that, despite using common parlance, he 'assumes' the listener is familiar and supportive of the Catholic Church's positions. This gets him into trouble. This most recent non interview with the Italian atheist reporter is a good example. The reporter neither takes nor records notes. Twice, he has purportedly misquoted Pope Francis. Why give him a 3rd opportunity?

It does not seem that he is used to dealing with parishioners and ordinary people.

Here, I disagree. He spent a great deal of time riding the bus and visiting with the poor in Argentina. For a while, I kept a list of "francisisms", such as:

To newly appointed bishops: "Don't be airport bishops" (bishops who spend too much time away from their dioceses)
To pastors: The Confessional is not a 'torture chamber'
The Sacrament of the Eucharist is not a 'magic rite'
On the need to be politically active: “Don’t respond to the crisis with a Pontius Pilate-like attitude”
To Vatican Police on spiritual war: “Napoleon is not coming anymore”
Pope Francis speaks out against "Christians at half-speed" (one who professes to be a christian but lives like a pagan).
Pope Francis says Confession is not like going to see a psychiatrist
Pope Francis: A bishop is to serve, not dominate
On wanting physical proof: Our Lady doesn't work in a post office, She doesn't mail out letters every day
Pope Francis: our faith is 'not an ornament'
On what it means to be a christian: Do you want to live your life like a burning lamp, or an extinguished one?
The Cross is not an ornament but the mystery of God's love.
Don't live the faith as if it were a non-stop funeral.
Pope Francis: Pray with your heart, not like a parrot
Pope: The Church isn't a rental unit... it's a home

These reflect his approach of expressing church teaching in common terms. Like you, I loved the example of living a truly christian life set by St. JPII and hold Benedict XVI's gift for drawing us deeper into theology. Francis is a conundrum.

23 posted on 07/16/2014 7:00:34 AM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

There are plenty of copies of the Catechisms out there. I have even both the American bishops copy and one called “ This is Our Faith”.


24 posted on 07/16/2014 7:11:46 AM PDT by Biggirl (“Go, do not be afraid, and serve”-Pope Francis)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

Which is a decent place to start, though I will admit ignorance over the conformity in the Orthodox churches over this.


25 posted on 07/16/2014 7:13:05 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: defconw
Worst thing if you are one of those gray fuzzy people who like to pretend there are gray areas. Because if you read the thing, there is no gray! I love the CCC. When I get static from a certain sector I say have you read the CCC, no?. You should is what I say. No excuses! No more hiding behind the I didn't understand the Encyclical etc.

Sadly certain anti-Catholic bigots like to ask: "Who interprets the CCC?, it's turtles all the way down." That is a direct quote.

Being Catholic is great! It's also a contact sport and it sure ain't easy a lot of times

Amen brother testify

26 posted on 07/16/2014 7:34:23 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: defconw

I love the Catechism. We read from it every morning; today we got to Paragraph 1,121.

If my family members don’t know their Faith, it won’t be through a lack of effort on my part!


27 posted on 07/16/2014 7:53:20 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I had not seen some of those sayings. I like them. They are really very witty. Humor does not always translate well, as we know. I think I got so spoiled because JPII's English was so good.

It is a conundrum, this immigration/invasion. As A Catholic my heart hurts for these people. What can we do, what should we do? As an American I am upset because I know this is being orchestrated by the other side. They are using these people to create a crisis. This crisis could eventually lead to civil war, martial law, who knows? In the meantime, here on Free Republic it's bash the Catholics number 1 Billion and 2.

I stated before, I will give up politics before I give up my faith. But should we have to? Should those of us who are Catholic just drop out? Most especially those of us on the right who face derision at Church and on here. It's so exhausting sometimes. But then there is the cross and what right do I have to complain? John Paul the Great, Pray for Us!

28 posted on 07/16/2014 7:54:39 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Biggirl

The answers in the Baltimore Catechism are still correct, too. They’re just not as in-depth as the CCC.


29 posted on 07/16/2014 7:54:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: verga
Well, I generally would not ask a Catholic bigot whether they read the CCC, because of course they haven't. I am just talking about Catholics or those who claim to be Catholics.

The other are always worried about who interprets the CCC, but they are same people who want me to believe their interpretation of scripture. Funny I should quit the Catholic church and join, which of the 51,000 different Protestant denominations?

Bah! I'll keep the hot mess I belong to! Love you all! Keep fighting the fight!

Just my opinion but when it comes to religion it seems liberals and protestants sound a lot alike. Maybe it's just me.

30 posted on 07/16/2014 8:09:06 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

I know that to be true! If there were more like you. They have one for kids, have you tired that one?


31 posted on 07/16/2014 8:10:06 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: ThomasMore
Do we not believe that the Holy Spirit directs the Church in the Popes selection/election?

Only if the electors are open to the Holy Spirit. I don't believe the majority of Cardinals today are open to anything but church politics.

32 posted on 07/16/2014 8:26:01 AM PDT by pgkdan (ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF THE ANTICHRIST!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: defconw

My captive audience each day at 6:30 a.m. ranges in age from 2-1/2 to 52. I know the CCC is over the heads of some of them, but I’m really aiming at the 14-and-up group, the ones who have questions and need to be reminded that there are good answers available.


33 posted on 07/16/2014 8:30:00 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

I know you can bring it down for the little people. I tried teaching the little ones. I prefer Junior High and up.


34 posted on 07/16/2014 8:34:05 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: defconw

I do other things to teach the little children. It’s important to work on the older ones now.


35 posted on 07/16/2014 8:35:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: defconw; Tax-chick

How about this?

http://www.ignatius.com/Products/YOUCAT-P/youcat.aspx


36 posted on 07/16/2014 8:37:28 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: defconw

Virtual High Fives.


37 posted on 07/16/2014 8:42:20 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Salvation; defconw; Tax-chick

It is from Christopher Cardinal Schoenborn so you know it is a faithful rendition.


38 posted on 07/16/2014 8:44:37 AM PDT by verga (Conservative, leaning libertarian)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Salvation
I have not taught in a while, but I just read some of the reviews. I would use it. I think it's looks good.

My favorite thing was after I stepped aside from Youth Ministry was that we started the Lifeteen! (I was getting to long in the tooth). :) Anyway, the kid that took over is now a priest.

Anyway I think that the fastest way to turn kids off is to me to dry. So anything like this is just so much the better.

39 posted on 07/16/2014 8:46:39 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: verga

Back at you!


40 posted on 07/16/2014 8:47:53 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3180998/posts

Check it out. I will not post on it, but it could be fun to watch.

41 posted on 07/16/2014 9:04:09 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: NYer

I have been divorced and remarried and I do not go to communion.

1 Cor 11
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.


42 posted on 07/16/2014 9:48:53 AM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf
First off, let me say I am Catholic I understand what you are saying. I got beat up but good by the proddies last week for telling them the same thing. I don't care what nitwits like Pelosi, Kennedy, Kerry et. al do. They know they shouldn't take Communion, just like you do. It's their soul.

Not to be mean to you, but some day your old spouse will die, may it be before you. If not, see you at the table in heaven. :)

43 posted on 07/16/2014 10:25:47 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: defconw
It is a conundrum, this immigration/invasion. As A Catholic my heart hurts for these people. What can we do, what should we do? As an American I am upset because I know this is being orchestrated by the other side. They are using these people to create a crisis.

As Catholics, our hearts are drawn to help the underprivileged. In this instance, though, we disdain the political agenda behind this mass migration. The Democrat party relies upon dependency of the populace to ensure re-election. This insidious approach, rather than liberating individuals, creates a 'caste' system of sycophants who will continue to vote the democratic ticket to guarantee continuation of their benefits. FWIU, the feds are shuttling these new arrivals to various states, often depositing them into communities that tend to vote republican.

Obama promised change; and he is not done with us. He is bolstering future democratic presidential hopefuls with a fresh voter base.

44 posted on 07/16/2014 10:51:03 AM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: ravenwolf; defconw
I have been divorced and remarried and I do not go to communion.

I am divorced but chose not to remarry. I knew I was making a mistake when I married but did it all the same. I took vows in the presence of God and continue to respect those vows. Several catholic priests, knowing the circumstances behind the divorce, recommended an annulment. I chose to follow my own conscience.

45 posted on 07/16/2014 10:56:15 AM PDT by NYer ("Before I formed you in the womb I knew you." --Jeremiah 1:5)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Sacajaweau

“Whether someone goes to communion or not does not require your permissions or my permission or the church’s permission.”

Actually, people do require the Church’s permission. Those receiving communion must be in good standing.


46 posted on 07/16/2014 11:04:05 AM PDT by vladimir998
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NYer
I know it's super hard, but I admire both of you for your faith. You do what the Church and your heart tell you. So many people just think the Church is being "mean" making these rules.

On the contrary, it's not about meanness, it's about protecting our souls. I think to many people think they have to go to Communion and that the collective "we" have become far to casual in partaking of the Eucharist. I used to tell my Confirmation classes we are not lining up for a bag of popcorn. Pay attention to what you are doing. Otherwise you might as well not go up there or just get the blessing. That works as well. But I could pick nits all day. I better be careful. I am not without sin.

47 posted on 07/16/2014 11:08:47 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: NYer
Well put! I long for the days when I could just go to Mass. That seems like forever ago. Maybe it never really was. Just an illusion that the old days were better? After all I have not been subjected to any liturgical dance or guitar Masses for a while now.
48 posted on 07/16/2014 11:12:22 AM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: defconw
<<<>>>> They are apparently Church members, not because they believe but because it helped them climb the ladder to worldly success. <<<< may it be before you. If not, see you at the table in heaven. :)>>>> Not sure what you mean.
49 posted on 07/16/2014 11:45:58 AM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: NYer

<<<<< I chose to follow my own conscience.>>>>>

I believe that is the best guide in a case where the damage has already been done.


50 posted on 07/16/2014 11:48:23 AM PDT by ravenwolf
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 451-468 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson