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That Church of England Vote…What Was That About?
http://www.patheos.com ^ | July 17, 2014 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 07/17/2014 10:58:01 AM PDT by NKP_Vet

With hindsight, we can see that the real battle in the Church of England has been with her founding principles. She was founded in the Protestant Revolution on an essentially liberal principle: that the circumstances and situation in the current culture determine the identity and mission of the church. She was now, and always has been the Church of ENGLAND. Therefore, the circumstances, personalities and cultural factors determine which way she will go. As society became increasingly secular, liberal and antipathetic to a Catholic worldview, the Catholic tendency in the Church of England could not survive.

From the first discussions of the possibility of women’s ordination the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic authorities reminded the leaders of the Church of England that such a decision would not be Catholic and Apostolic. Gradually the Church of England came to understand that she was not a historic Catholic Church, and by her voting process informed the Catholics and Eastern Orthodox of her decision. Catholics and Eastern Orthodox leaders should understand that the majority of Anglicans (for many different reasons) have never really considered themselves Catholic. Their attitude was summed up for me in a dissuasion in the mid 1980s with a female Anglican seminarian. When I pointed out that women’s ordination was an obstacle to unity with the Catholic Church she raised her voice and protested, “You don’t get it! I am not a Roman Catholic and I don’t want to be. I don’t care about so called unity with the Catholic Church. That is not something I want at all!”

She spoke the true wishes not only of the majority of Anglican clergy but also the majority of Anglicans in the pew. The ecumenical movement, for most of them, has never been more than the nice idea that they might have the occasional hymn sing with the other churches and perhaps run a soup kitchen together. The idea that they would become “Roman Catholics” was abhorrent to most Anglicans for most of them who thought it through at all were convinced of the Tractarian myth that they were already Catholic…just not Roman Catholic.

Therefore the vote on Monday by the General Synod was not really about women bishops. It was about the Church of England ratifying her original charter: to be the Church of England and to do what England wants. The vote was about the Church of England identifying herself very clearly and unapologetically as a Protestant Progressive Christian sect along with the Episcopalians and Lutherans. Monday’s vote ended the interesting chapter in Anglican history called “The Anglo Catholic movement.” Monday’s vote was a clear repudiation of any semblance of authentic Catholicism and an endorsement of the principles of Protestantism.

Does this mean ecumenism with Anglicans is over? Not at all. Ecumenical discussions continue. It’s just that now everyone should be much clearer about the identity of our ecumenical partners.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; History; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic
"Monday’s vote ended the interesting chapter in Anglican history called “The Anglo Catholic movement.” Monday’s vote was a clear repudiation of any semblance of authentic Catholicism and an endorsement of the principles of Protestantism".
1 posted on 07/17/2014 10:58:01 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
interesting assessment by the Church of ROME
2 posted on 07/17/2014 11:04:21 AM PDT by will of the people
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To: will of the people
interesting assessment by the Church of ROME

Fr. Longenecker isn't Roman or even Italian.

The only reason why English speakers use the term "Roman" as in "Roman Catholic Church" is an historical accident.

In Poland, Mexico, France, Brazil, Germany, Cameroon, the Philippines, etc. the Church is known only as "The Catholic Church" - they don't describe it as "Roman."

3 posted on 07/17/2014 11:12:06 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: All
"Monday’s vote ended the interesting chapter in Anglican history called “The Anglo Catholic movement.” Monday’s vote was a clear repudiation of any semblance of authentic Catholicism and an endorsement of the principles of Protestantism".

Fr LongRubbernecker PING

4 posted on 07/17/2014 11:15:15 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: wideawake

The Vatican does not describe the church as Roman. The official name of the Church is the Catholic Church. Always has been. Rome only signifies where the Vatican is located.


5 posted on 07/17/2014 11:15:31 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

She was founded in the Protestant Revolution on an essentially liberal principle


I thought the CoE was created so its king can kill his wives who don’t produce sons!

Its not too shocking the a church founded by such a deviant is influenced by secular culture.


6 posted on 07/17/2014 11:18:36 AM PDT by RginTN
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To: will of the people

The Catholic Church’s is the Church that Christ founded. It is allowed to pass judgement on other Churches.


7 posted on 07/17/2014 11:19:05 AM PDT by impimp
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To: impimp

My uncle once told me:

He who lives in glass houses, should not sleep in the raw.


8 posted on 07/17/2014 11:22:06 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: impimp; will of the people
The Catholic Church’s is the Church that Christ founded. It is allowed to pass judgement on other Churches.

One rule for me, another for thee?

9 posted on 07/17/2014 11:34:20 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Alex Murphy

Precisely.

I am a Catholic.

And my Church is certainly no position whatsoever to passing down judgment on other churches especially after all we’ve been through these past few decades with homosexual/pedophile priest scandal among others.


10 posted on 07/17/2014 11:41:03 AM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
I am a Catholic. And my Church is certainly no position whatsoever to passing down judgment on other churches especially after all we’ve been through these past few decades with homosexual/pedophile priest scandal among others.

And Christ gives permission to the world, to pass judgment on the Church:

"The church is to be a loving church in a dying culture. How, then, is the dying culture going to consider us? Jesus says, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another." In the midst of the world, in the midst of our present culture, Jesus is giving a right to the world. Upon His authority He gives the world the right to judge whether you and I are born-again Christians on the basis of our observable love toward all Christians."
-- Francis A. Schaeffer, The Mark of The Christian, quoting John 13:34-35

The Mark of the Christian, part 1
The Mark of the Christian, part 2
The Mark of the Christian, part 3


11 posted on 07/17/2014 11:51:37 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

The only Churches are the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church.
The rest have no apostolic sucession and are officially
ecclesial communities.


12 posted on 07/17/2014 12:14:46 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: Alex Murphy
Fr LongRubbernecker PING

And your point is...?

13 posted on 07/17/2014 12:21:24 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: NKP_Vet

That may be.

But given that there are no shortage of sinners in my Church, I try to refrain from harshly judging other churches.

I do attend Mass regularly (usually twice a week) and I regularly watch EWTN. But there are number of Protestant ministers I like as well including Billy Graham, Franklin Graham, John Hagee, Joyce Meyer, and especially Hal Lindsay.


14 posted on 07/17/2014 12:25:43 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

I like Graham and Hal Lindsay, never miss his program. It’s too bad that non-Catholics don’t take your advice about criticizing other faiths. All I do on FR is take up for my Catholic faith from the constant attack by non-Catholics.


15 posted on 07/17/2014 12:48:03 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
It’s too bad that non-Catholics don’t take your advice about criticizing other faiths.

LOL irony ain't just the science of making your shirts flat!

16 posted on 07/17/2014 12:51:05 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: NKP_Vet

Well....let’s face it.....the Catholic Church has provided plenty of ammo for its detractors in recent years with all of the depraved priests, the bishops who were covering up for them, and now the current Pope is quite a socialist IMHO.


17 posted on 07/17/2014 1:04:50 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: NKP_Vet

If I’m not mistaken, England was always Roman Catholic until Henry VIII had his little problem with the Vatican. It was then that he claimed to be the head of the church in England, declared Roman Catholicism as the “old” religion and the Church of England was the “new” religion. Not only priests and nuns, but anyone secretly practicing the “old” religion was executed.


18 posted on 07/17/2014 1:08:59 PM PDT by navyblue (<u> Si vis pacem, para bellum.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Percentage wise more sex abuse with minors in protestant faiths. Look it up. But they have no money, so that’s why you never hear about it.


19 posted on 07/17/2014 1:12:11 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet

We can’t whitewash this. THOUSANDS of priests in the US were involved in this and Lord knows how many victims.

This is a terrible stain on our Church. In my archdiocese alone (L.A.) the Church was forced sign over a $660 billion settlement which will impact us for decades.

These priests are supposed to be celibate and holy. The Church is supposed to be at a higher level and held to higher standards than other institutions.

This pedophile/homosexual priest scandal is beyond revulsion. Purely evil.

As an aside: I learned a few years ago that the priest who married my wife and I was defrocked by the Church because he was romantically involved with an adult woman. Imagine if he was caught molesting altar boys...the Church would have simply transferred him to another parish like they did with so many others.


20 posted on 07/17/2014 1:22:46 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

thousands of priests?


21 posted on 07/17/2014 1:23:57 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL

According to Wikipedia.org the number of priests implicated in the US alone was 4,392. Under the heading of Catholic sex abuses cases.


22 posted on 07/17/2014 1:28:36 PM PDT by Trapped Behind Enemy Lines
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

That includes those who knew and did nothing, those who covered it up and those who SHOULD have known, right?


23 posted on 07/17/2014 1:30:13 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

“I am a Catholic.

And my Church is certainly no position whatsoever to passing down judgment on other churches.....”

What other churches? There are no “other churches”. The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ. The rest are Christian “denominations”. There are no other “churches”.


24 posted on 07/17/2014 3:52:18 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

Speaking of sex abuse, I have posted many articles related to the subject here at FR and once I asked a question that either the FReeper could not answer to did not want to. That question is “what religion has the highest unreported sex abuse and cover ups in it?”

I’m asking again... Any takers?


25 posted on 07/17/2014 4:01:08 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: NKP_Vet; GeronL

please see post 17


26 posted on 07/17/2014 4:01:56 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: NKP_Vet; GeronL

I mean 25... sorry computer trouble tonight


27 posted on 07/17/2014 4:02:39 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Trapped Behind Enemy Lines

You need to quit listening to CNN so much. Try supporting the 98% of the priests who have never committed any type of sexual abuse. The media wants everyone to think that all Catholic priests are sexual predators. Like I say statistically speaking there are more cases in the protestant faiths and Jewish faith than Catholics. And that’s fact. But the ambulance chasing lawyers know where the money is - the Catholic Church. And the vast majority of these cases are 25 to 40 years old. Most of the priests long dead.


28 posted on 07/17/2014 4:50:55 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: will of the people
"the Church of ROME"


29 posted on 07/17/2014 6:13:33 PM PDT by Wyrd biđ ful arćd (Asperges me, Domine, hyssopo et mundabor, Lavabis me, et super nivem dealbabor.)
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To: NKP_Vet
The only Churches are the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church. The rest have no apostolic sucession and are officially ecclesial communities.

In the eleventh century the Orthodox Church concluded that mandating the primacy and infallibility of and obedience to the Pope of Rome was a clear repudiation of any semblance to authentic Christianity and an endorsement of the principles of Roman Catholicism.

What determines "apostolic succession" two thousand years removed from the actual Apostles? It is a succession of the TEACHINGS of the Apostles and we can find them IN the Scriptures they wrote as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. "Ecclesial communities"? Are you aware that ecclesia is the Greek word for the called out assembly, AKA, the church???

30 posted on 07/17/2014 10:34:07 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: NKP_Vet
It’s too bad that non-Catholics don’t take your advice about criticizing other faiths. All I do on FR is take up for my Catholic faith from the constant attack by non-Catholics.

Oh, pobrecito! Nearly ALL of the threads you post criticize and attack non-Catholic Christians for not being Catholic and your responses often are far from just "taking up for your faith from constant attacks by non-Catholics". One need only read your recent posts. Who do you imagine is fooled by this defense?

31 posted on 07/17/2014 10:42:28 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Morgana
What other churches? There are no “other churches”. The Catholic Church is the Church of Christ. The rest are Christian “denominations”. There are no other “churches”.

The Greek word ecclesia that was translated as "church" in English, meant the called-out assembly. A church, therefore, is ANY assembly of born again believers in Jesus Christ and together we all make up the Body of Christ, His spiritual house. Sorry, but Catholics don't own the copyright to "church".

And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER STONE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." (I Peter 2:4-6)

32 posted on 07/17/2014 10:52:04 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Morgana
If it's "unreported" and "covered up", how can anyone know the answer???
33 posted on 07/17/2014 10:53:57 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: Alex Murphy
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Are you sure that's a correct translation? Are you sure it doesn't actually say, "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye post snarky comments about one another on an Internet message board." ??

34 posted on 07/18/2014 5:23:11 AM PDT by Campion
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To: boatbums

Like I said there are two churches, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. The rest are nothing but breakaway sects and as such are not only false churches, but false religions.


35 posted on 07/18/2014 6:13:39 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: boatbums

“Oh, pobrecito! Nearly ALL of the threads you post criticize and attack non-Catholic Christians for not being Catholic”

I post articles about Catholicism, the haters come out and start saying how wrong I am and how the Catholic Church is wrong, not Biblical, etc. I take up for my faith, and in your way of thinking I am “attacking non-Catholics”. You need to get out more.


36 posted on 07/18/2014 6:17:51 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
The only Churches are the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church. The rest have no apostolic sucession and are officially ecclesial communities.

Hate to break this to you, but anyone who confesses Jesus as Lord is in the catholic church as defined by God's Word...not by man.

37 posted on 07/18/2014 7:22:11 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: Morgana
Speaking of sex abuse, I have posted many articles related to the subject here at FR and once I asked a question that either the FReeper could not answer to did not want to. That question is “what religion has the highest unreported sex abuse and cover ups in it?” I’m asking again... Any takers?

Better yet...which religion has a greater tendency to support the party of death...also known as the dimocrat national party

Any takers???

38 posted on 07/18/2014 7:26:39 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: boatbums
The only Churches are the Catholic Church and Orthodox Church. The rest have no apostolic sucession and are officially ecclesial communities.

>In the eleventh century the Orthodox Church concluded that mandating the primacy and infallibility of and obedience to the Pope of Rome was a clear repudiation of any semblance to authentic Christianity and an endorsement of the principles of Roman Catholicism.

What determines "apostolic succession" two thousand years removed from the actual Apostles? It is a succession of the TEACHINGS of the Apostles and we can find them IN the Scriptures they wrote as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance. "Ecclesial communities"? Are you aware that ecclesia is the Greek word for the called out assembly, AKA, the church???<

you're actually expecting a catholic to read the Biblical text and keep it in the proper context?? you're asking for a lot.

39 posted on 07/18/2014 7:29:07 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: boatbums

40 posted on 07/18/2014 7:29:07 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: NKP_Vet
The rest are nothing but breakaway sects and as such are not only false churches, but false religions.

Before you start labeling others as false churches, false religions you might want to look in the mirror. You might see praying to Mary, worshipping Mary, indulgences, penance, working for your salvation, mortal sins vs venial (little sins as I like to call them) sins, saying repeated prayers over and over and over like the rosary, the papacy itself, Mary's so called immaculate conception, etc.

The RCC is the last one to call anyone else's religion false.

41 posted on 07/18/2014 7:34:37 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: NKP_Vet
Like I said there are two churches, the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church. The rest are nothing but breakaway sects and as such are not only false churches, but false religions.

You were just bemoaning that, "It’s too bad that non-Catholics don’t take your advice about criticizing other faiths. All I do on FR is take up for my Catholic faith from the constant attack by non-Catholics.", now you are criticizing other faiths, going so far as to declare any church not Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox is a "false church" and a "false religion". Can't make up your mind?

42 posted on 07/18/2014 8:29:30 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: NKP_Vet
I post articles about Catholicism, the haters come out and start saying how wrong I am and how the Catholic Church is wrong, not Biblical, etc. I take up for my faith, and in your way of thinking I am “attacking non-Catholics”. You need to get out more.

But this thread you posted isn't about Roman Catholicism. It's a hit piece on the Anglican church. You just got done asserting, "All I do on FR is take up for my Catholic faith from the constant attack by non-Catholics.", actually it's not ALL you do after all. Didn't you claim in the past that you never see threads of Catholics initiating an argument with protestants on FR? So, what do you call this one??? You either need to get out more or at least remember from post to post what you say.

43 posted on 07/18/2014 8:35:36 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

“It’s a hit piece on the Anglican church”

Then why don’t you write Father Dwight Longnenecker and complain to him. He only tells the truth and you cant handle the truth.


44 posted on 07/19/2014 6:48:09 AM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: NKP_Vet
Then why don’t you write Father Dwight Longnenecker and complain to him. He only tells the truth and you cant handle the truth.

Did Fr. Longnenecker FORCE you to post this thread on FR??? It's humorous you cannot recognize that when you say one thing and then turn around and contradict yourself, you don't make sense. Can you handle THAT truth?

45 posted on 07/19/2014 2:10:23 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums

Father Longnenecker is the perfect person to tell you how far off scripture the Angelican Church has drifted with their doctrine on female clergy, support of homo “marriage”, and homo clergy. He was a Angelican priest before his conversion to Catholicism. So why on earth would it bother you when I post an article from a Catholic priest who used to be a protestant. He was not just your typical Angelican priest. He graduated from fundamentalist Bob Jones University. I enjoy everything that Father Longenecker writes. You of course could care for him because he used to be a protestant. Everything he said about the Angelican Church is fact, but of course because he’s a Catholic you disregard anything and everything he says.


46 posted on 07/19/2014 3:39:34 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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