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Priestly Ordination To Men Alone
walkinginthedesert ^

Posted on 07/17/2014 6:46:58 PM PDT by walkinginthedesert

Holy_Orders_Picture

In a historic vote, the Church of England today approved female bishops. The vote was far from even being close. Women will be bishops in the Church of England after a historic vote in the General Synod, ending 40 years of not being able to do so. An overwhelming 81 per cent of Synod members backed the change, during the sitting in York, and 75 per cent of the laity supported the move.

There will no doubt be a great push of the Feminist movement to use this event to further their causes for whatever reasons they may be. There will also be a great push for other Christian groups to do the same in following the Anglicans, allowing women to be bishops, or even priests. However this will not and cannot happen in the Catholic Church. Any faithful Catholic knows that the ordination of the priesthood is reserved to men alone, and is a matter not merely of discipline or small t Tradition, but rather one which constitutes capital T Tradition which cannot change. The question is why? What makes this type of change impossible amongst the Catholic Church? Also what is the big deal with women being priests or bishops for that matter?

The reason that women cannot be priests is theological and obviously historical as well. In his Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, Pope Saint John Paul II talks about the reservation of priestly ordination to men alone. He mentions that it is not in the authority of the Church to ordain women priests, he states “I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitely held by all the Church’s faithful.”1

The Nature of Priestly Ordination to Men Alone

1) A priest acts in "persona Christi” He is another Christ. Christ was a man and by that very nature a women being a priest would be incompatible. (The nature of the priesthood)

2) The scriptural accounts regarding the Gospels, of Christ choosing his apostles only from amongst men (The Scriptural Basis)

3) Throughout the centuries, even up to this day, the Church’s living and teaching authority has held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God’s plan (The Tradition of the Church)

A priest acts in “persona Christi” he is literally a second Christ. The son of God became flesh as a man, and therefore the priest’s maleness is essential to his priestly role. It is also to be held that although equal in dignity, the very nature of man and woman is different.

The fact is that women and men though equal in dignity in the eyes of God have different functions according to their vary nature. For example, “men were created to be focused more in the exterior, while women in the interior, men tend to look more on the physical, women more in the human person, men are mostly the provider, women the nurturer of the family, men are paternal, women tend to be maternal”2

This helps explain that the reservation of priestly ordination to men, is by no means a sort of anti-women attitude that the Church has against women. No rather it has to do with the very nature and the differences of those two natures between male and female.

Mary DeTurris stated “Pope Saint John Paul II has written and spoken often about the equality of women, their unique gifts and their role in the Church. The pope affirmed women’s central importance in history and said the Church believes the Gospel message of Christ is “ever relevant” when it comes “to setting women free from every kind of exploitation and domination.”3

DeTurris further explained that the role of the Virgin Mary was drastically different from that of the Apostles and Disciples. DeTurris stated “ The fact that the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, and Mother of the Church, received neither the mission proper to the apostles nor the ministerial priesthood clearly shows that the non-admission of women to priestly ordination cannot mean that women are of lesser dignity, nor can it be construed as a discrimination against them”4

The role of women in Church in Church and in the faith itself, is to be pursued by following in the footsteps of Mary. Mary grew in sanctification through her own personal holiness, by doing the will of God in her life. Her ceaseless prayers, for the Church and her own holiness in her daily life is basically that of the women’s role.

Tradition and Scripture

First and foremost Saint Pope John Paul II states in his Apostolic Letter Ordination Sacerdotalis that in the Gospels themselves, Jesus chooses his disciples only amongst men. He further states that this has been the tradition of the Church even up to the present day. Pope John Paul states:

"The Church holds that it is not admissible to ordain women to the priesthood for very fundamental reasons. These reasons include: the example recorded in the Sacred Scriptures of Christ choosing his Apostles only from among men; the constant practice of the Church, which has imitated Christ in choosing only men; and her living teaching authority which has consistently held that the exclusion of women from the priesthood is in accordance with God's plan for his Church”5Similarly the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

"Only a baptized man (vir) validly receives sacred ordination." The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ's return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible. (CCC 1577)

The Early Church and the Church Fathers

Ever since the early church, leading up to the second and third century, there were heretical groups of Christians that started ordaining women to work priestly functions. Various Church Fathers and councils quickly condemned this practice as contrary to the nature of the priesthood.

John Chrysostom

"[W]hen one is required to preside over the Church and to be entrusted with the care of so many souls, the whole female sex must retire before the magnitude of the task, and the majority of men also, and we must bring forward those who to a large extent surpass all others and soar as much above them in excellence of spirit as Saul overtopped the whole Hebrew nation in bodily stature" (The Priesthood 2:2 [A.D. 387]).

Hippolytus

"When a widow is to be appointed, she is not to be ordained, but is designated by being named [a widow]. . . . A widow is appointed by words alone, and is then associated with the other widows. Hands are not imposed on her, because she does not offer the oblation and she does not conduct the liturgy. Ordination is for the clergy because of the liturgy; but a widow is appointed for prayer, and prayer is the duty of all" (The Apostolic Tradition 11 [A.D. 215]).

Council of Nicaea I

"Similarly, in regard to the deaconesses, as with all who are enrolled in the register, the same procedure is to be observed. We have made mention of the deaconesses, who have been enrolled in this position, although, not having been in any way ordained, they are certainly to be numbered among the laity" (Canon 19 [A.D. 325]).

Council of Laodicea

"[T]he so-called ‘presbyteresses’ or ‘presidentesses’ are not to be ordained in the Church" (Canon 11 [A.D. 360]).


Notes:
1)Saint Pope John Paul II: Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (Section 1) http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/1994/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis_en.html

2)Fulton Sheen: (A talk given by Archbishop Fulton Sheen in his Life Is Worth Living series)

3)Mary DeTurris: Why Women Can't Be Priests http://www.ewtn.com/library/issues/whywomen.txt

4)ibid

5)John Paul II op.cit (section 1)



TOPICS: Apologetics; History; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: clergy; ordination; priesthood; womenpriest

1 posted on 07/17/2014 6:46:58 PM PDT by walkinginthedesert
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To: walkinginthedesert

the church is so lost...in apostasy..most of it.


2 posted on 07/17/2014 6:49:42 PM PDT by felixandbowinkle
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To: walkinginthedesert

What is 81% of irrelevancy?


3 posted on 07/17/2014 6:50:23 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: walkinginthedesert

Over the last 10 years I have seem hordes of Anglicans/Episcopalians, both men and women, leave their churches and join Catholic and Orthodox Churches.


4 posted on 07/17/2014 6:53:01 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: walkinginthedesert
They have abandoned apostolic teaching.

Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. 8 I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. 38But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

5 posted on 07/17/2014 6:53:06 PM PDT by af_vet_1981 (The bus came by and I got on, That's when it all began)
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To: felixandbowinkle
the church is so lost...in apostasy..most of it.

Certainly not on the issue of not ordaining women.

6 posted on 07/17/2014 6:58:24 PM PDT by xone
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To: Jim from C-Town

42.


7 posted on 07/17/2014 7:02:39 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
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To: walkinginthedesert

I guess this means that there will soon be lesbian bishops in the Anglican Church.

Very sad.


8 posted on 07/17/2014 7:03:01 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Cicero

The personal sins of Bishops apart ... floor of Hell paved with their skulls and all that ... this development illustrates conclusively that the Church of England’s theology of the Eucharist, as well as the Incarnation, is irredeemably flawed.


9 posted on 07/17/2014 7:06:09 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Sometimes I like to drink all by myself.)
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To: Hostage
Coming Home Network
10 posted on 07/17/2014 7:08:43 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: walkinginthedesert

Sorry. Whole thing is off.

Not one priest can be found in all the New Testament. Other than the Lord Jesus Himself.

It is a Jewish practice that ended when our High Priest came in the flesh and made all believers priests.....

Flame away.....


11 posted on 07/17/2014 7:13:25 PM PDT by Arlis
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Cicero

I can tell you exactly what he thinks. He’s thinking it’s all a giant fraud, but one that continues to furnish him with social status and a comfortable living. He knows he’s a sellout counting the days to retirement and occasionally wonders if he’ll have a functioning conscience by then. He is starting not to care. He’s very busy and important you know, and has many busy and important people to keep up with.

Yes, I know exactly what he’s thinking.

My best friend for 30 years was/is an ecusa rector of a large endowment church. He has an island too (are you in Maine?). He broke off his friendship with me when I became engaged to the now Mrs Romulus, a convert from the ecusa who let him know her views. He took it very poorly indeed.


13 posted on 07/17/2014 7:42:41 PM PDT by Romulus
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To: xone

true i suppose..but there are plenty of women that would do a better job than some of the weak priests of today.


14 posted on 07/17/2014 7:51:21 PM PDT by felixandbowinkle
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To: felixandbowinkle

There is only one Law for the Priesthood and that is found in the Torah. Priests are to marry and the Kohen ha Gadol or High Priest HAD to be maried to officiate on Yom Kippur etc.. What you are actually seeing is the result of forsaking the Torah ; you end up 180 degrees opposite the Word of G-d. Don’t go with the flow. Return to Torah and Know the L-rd.


15 posted on 07/17/2014 8:12:28 PM PDT by Torahman (Remember the Maccabees!)
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To: felixandbowinkle
Well, the church of England was born out of sinful motives, so what else would one expect?
16 posted on 07/17/2014 8:34:57 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Cicero
The US Episky spawn of the C of E already has them.
17 posted on 07/17/2014 8:36:50 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: Arlis
Guess you missed the writings of St. Paul to the new Christian Churches throughout Asia Minor and the Mediterranean. Not to mention the ordination of St. Peter by the Christ Himself.

But then protestants are like that, a lot.

18 posted on 07/17/2014 8:39:23 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: hinckley buzzard
I was Baptized as a priest , prophet and king. Small letters, because I'm a girl. ;)
19 posted on 07/17/2014 9:19:36 PM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
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To: defconw

In case I was not clear, I am Catholic. I am not in favor of ordination of women.


20 posted on 07/17/2014 9:21:40 PM PDT by defconw (Both parties have clearly lost their minds!)
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To: felixandbowinkle

The type of women who would make good priestesses realize they can’t become priestesses in the Church. It’s the ones who would make bad priestesses that invariably think they can. Funny how that works. I mean it’s right there, try to find one woman of any faith who is way into things like abortion, divorce and remarriage, bc within marriage, and ‘gay marriage’ that also thinks women shouldn’t be priests in the Catholic Church.

Freegards


21 posted on 07/17/2014 9:33:02 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Romulus

Why was Cicero’s post in #12 deleted?


22 posted on 07/17/2014 9:45:36 PM PDT by Hostage (ARTICLE V)
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To: Torahman

sounds good..and Roy Masters of the fhu.com is one Jew who has returned and also embraced Jesus.


23 posted on 07/17/2014 10:42:50 PM PDT by felixandbowinkle (let irritations pass and become truly happy and strong..fhu.com!)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Where does the scripture say that Peter was a priest? and where does it say Jesus ordained him as one?

Nor arguing yet any way, just want to know.


24 posted on 07/17/2014 11:57:29 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: ravenwolf

Peter was one of the Apostles present at the Last Supper when our Blessed Lord Jesus instituted the Holy Eucharist with the command “Do This in Memory of Me”, thus initiating the Apostles into the most Essentially Priestly role.


25 posted on 07/18/2014 12:38:37 AM PDT by CharlesOConnell (CharlesOConnell)
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To: ravenwolf
Where does the scripture say that Peter was a priest?

1 Pt 5:1 - The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ ...

The Greek word "elder" is "presbyter," from which we get the English word "priest".

26 posted on 07/18/2014 5:34:25 AM PDT by Campion
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To: felixandbowinkle
.but there are plenty of women that would do a better job

They may be more faithful, may be better at Gospel exposition, may be more personable, but clergy isn't a woman's job. Praying for better male shepherds is the way to fix the problem, as well as getting rid of the bad ones.

27 posted on 07/18/2014 5:45:54 AM PDT by xone
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To: xone

nope..getting good men like Roy Masters to help churches would work! But most of them are too busy judging him!


28 posted on 07/18/2014 6:21:39 AM PDT by felixandbowinkle (let irritations pass and become truly happy and strong..fhu.com!)
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To: hinckley buzzard

Been studying the Bible for almost 50 years in much depth. Priest is always/only used in two ways in the New Testament: referring to a Jewish priest, or the Lord Jesus.

Only one time did Paul use the word about himself, Romans 15:16, where he says he was ministering “AS a priest”, not that he WAS a priest.
I’ll admit that is an arguable point - but you can’t build a whole doctrine on one verse where the meaning is in question.

Welcome you to show me one scripture using the word “priest” in reference to any of the apostles or servants of God in the NT.....

BTW - I am not Protestant.......sorry


29 posted on 07/18/2014 6:38:06 AM PDT by Arlis
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To: felixandbowinkle
.getting good men like Roy Masters to help churches would work!

Yes, you were speaking of apostates, ole Roy would be the chief among them.

But most of them are too busy judging him!

Christians are supposed to exercise judgment especially in their clergy, clowns like Roy are a big reason. One of Satan's minions, he is best kept far from Christians. Pray for the benighted doughheads under his spell.

30 posted on 07/18/2014 6:47:45 AM PDT by xone
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To: Arlis

“Welcome you to show me one scripture using the word “priest” in reference to any of the apostles or servants of God in the NT.....”

The word elder is used. “priest” is an English word which actually comes from the Greek word “presbuteros” which means “elder”.

“BTW - I am not Protestant.......sorry”

If you claim to be a Christian, there are only 5 possibilities:

1) Catholic
2) Eastern Orthodox
3) Oriental Orthodox (i.e. non-Chalcedonian)
4) Protestant
5) a non-Christian sect which uses the name “Christian” but is not in fact Christian (i.e. Mormons, JW’s, etc.).

So, which are you?


31 posted on 07/18/2014 7:15:15 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Hostage; Cicero

No idea. It was totally innocent.


32 posted on 07/18/2014 7:29:38 AM PDT by Romulus
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To: CharlesOConnell; Campion

“Do This in Memory of Me”, thus initiating the Apostles into the most Essentially Priestly role.


I don`t see how that shows Peter being ordained a Priest.

The Greek word “elder” is “presbyter,” from which we get the English word “priest”.>>>>>>

Titus 1
5
For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

6
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

7
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God;

The above scripture shows plainly that Paul is talking of appointing elders to the position of Bishops, and also in 1 Timothy to deacons.

I believe there is a big misunderstanding of what an elder is.

I don`t think an elder would be higher in authority than a bishop or even a deacon.


33 posted on 07/18/2014 8:10:35 AM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: xone

Roy helps so much with his Be Still silent prayer...very simple...to break the spell of sin. Something the church has dropped the ball completely on! Roy is a Jew who shows us the pathway to Jesus...the church does not...mostly.


34 posted on 07/18/2014 8:32:10 AM PDT by felixandbowinkle (let irritations pass and become truly happy and strong..fhu.com!)
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To: Romulus; Hostage

No idea. Well, it’s not the end of the world.


35 posted on 07/18/2014 9:52:33 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Arlis
>> It is a Jewish practice that ended when our High Priest came in the flesh and made all believers priests.....<<

That is a scriptural truth.

1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

In the Old Testament it was the priest alone who could approach the throne of God. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice and that veil separating us from the Father was torn in two.

Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

We can now go boldly before the throne of God having been covered by the blood of Jesus.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

36 posted on 07/18/2014 10:29:47 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Campion
>>The Greek word "elder" is "presbyter," from which we get the English word "priest".<<

In total error I might add.

37 posted on 07/18/2014 10:33:16 AM PDT by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: felixandbowinkle
Roy is a Jew who shows us the pathway to Jesus.

Roy is a charlatan to put it nicely. Royaniaty has no Christ.

the church does not...mostly.

Can't make up the mind? The Holy Spirit leads men to Christ

38 posted on 07/18/2014 11:18:33 AM PDT by xone
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To: walkinginthedesert

I have no dog in this fight since I have no ties to this denomination, or its religious traditions. God’s Word should trump any religious tradition, no matter how tightly people cling to it. I know in my own life I have had to deal with some personal bias when it comes to females preaching, but I would gladly take a Spirit-filled woman called by God in a pulpit any day over some of what commonly appears there. It should not be what I want though, but what God wants. Whether male or female, if they are not called by God or anointed for the ministry, they should not be there. God’s got too many salesmen and counselors trying to be preachers, and too many folks that were called to preach running in the opposite direction.

This one passage lays the foundation for understanding the role of women in the Body of Christ. Note especially the 28th verse.

Galatians 3:24-29 (KJV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Body of Christ has many members, and if Believers are being led by the Spirit, God places each member into the body in their proper place for the edification of the Body. Our placement should not be by our choice, or religion’s choice, but according to God’s Divine Plan and His guidance - Jesus is the Head, and ONLY HEAD of the Body. (Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12)

Note how often women played a role in ministry in the Bible:

The woman at the well acted as an evangelist at Sychar, bringing her whole village to Jesus. (John 4)

Women were the first to spread the Good News of Jesus’ resurrection. (Matthew 28:1-10, Luke 24:9-11, John 20:16-18)

The promise of a Spiritual outpouring was for both sons and daughters, servants and handmaids. (Acts 2:14-21, Joel 2:28-31)

Philip the evangelist had four daughters who prophesied - which edifies the Church see 1 Cor 14:3-4. (Acts 21:8-9)

In Romans, Paul lists several women who had big roles in the Church:
Phoebe, Romans 16:1 - which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea.
Priscilla, Romans 16:3-4 (KJV) - my helper in Christ Jesus and had a church in their house with her husband Aquila. She and her husband mentored Apollos in Acts 18.
Paul names several women among saints and brethren - Mary, Julia (Romans 16:6-16)

Paul writes that Euodia and Syntyche are his genuine yokefellow, who have toiled along with me in the spreading of the Gospel. (Philippians 4:2-3)

Paul writes about women who publicly pray and prophesy. (1 Corinthians 11:5)

Weigh the two prohibitions against women in ministry (1 Corinthians 14, 1 Timothy 2:11-15), against the Spirit and Truth found throughout Paul’s writing TO the Church - Romans through Thessalonians. There should be no contradiction. Either we are all ONE in Christ, or we are not.

Even in the Old Testament there were women involved in ministry - Miriam Exodus 15:20, Deborah Judges 4:4, Huldah the prophetess 2 Kings 22:14 & 2 Chronicles 34:22, Noadiah the prophetess Nehemiah 6:14, not to mention the important roles played by Ruth, Esther, the prophesies of Elizabeth and Mary in Luke 1 and Anna in the Temple in Luke 2.

If God can preach through a donkey, I think He can find a place for an anointed woman of God.


39 posted on 07/18/2014 12:16:14 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: CynicalBear

Excellent response.


40 posted on 07/18/2014 12:34:39 PM PDT by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: xone

completely false..stop besmirching the3 man. He talks all about patience and non judgment, just as Jesus taught. How dare you.


41 posted on 07/18/2014 1:13:23 PM PDT by felixandbowinkle (let irritations pass and become truly happy and strong..fhu.com!)
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To: felixandbowinkle
completely false..stop besmirching the3 man. He talks all about patience and non judgment, just as Jesus taught. How dare you.

Self-help mysticism. 'just as Jesus taught' but not a word about what Christ the Son of God taught. Jesus'message isn't about 'patience' and 'non-judgment', He talk about repentance and salvation through belief in Him only.

How dare you.

Easy, he is a fake, the type the Jesus, the Apostles and prophets warned Christians about. There is no biblical Jesus in Royanity. But his minions continue to come on a Christian website and attempt to deceive, just like Roy's father.

45 posted on 07/18/2014 3:02:49 PM PDT by xone
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To: BlueDragon

I didn’t know old Fabian had been zotted. Since I had many convos with him, this could be him, or another drone acolyte spouting the same cult baloney from the same script. It was about time for the bimonthly submission of the Roy Masters disciples.


46 posted on 07/18/2014 3:06:18 PM PDT by xone
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