Posted on 07/23/2014 11:09:55 AM PDT by Faith Presses On
wow, you put a lot of work into that and you still are wrong. If our Lord himself gives us freedom from following Him, how can we force others? He is perfect and allows us to not follow Him, if that is our decision.
But you. You castigate and denigrate the Christian witness of those who don’t agree with you....are you perfect? No.
And the Constitutional witness of your FReeper fellows (or women, as in this case)
Spare me your many, many words. Can you drop this? I see you have a hard time with others not believing about issues the manner in which you believe. Are you even able to drop this, and also let others actually have differing opinions, without the personal attacks?
Read some Thomas Jefferson.
You may actually want to do the same (actually read some Thomas Jefferson writings) sometime.
But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782
Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear. - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787
Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789
The 1st Amendment simply and very eloquently states and nothing more than – “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
What the 1st Amendment actually states is that the Federal government via Congressional legislation will not by law establish or promote any national religion or religious sect over any other nor will it prohibit the free exercise thereof via Congressional legislation, it does not however address the freedom of you to express your religious beliefs nor of me, (a fact that is so often overlooked) of my right not to be forced to listen to you and tell you to get lost and or also my right to tell you how and why I think you are wrong.
The 1st Amendment, while it allows freedom of political speech and the free exercise of religion, not abridged by Congressional law, it does not however guarantee you or anyone else a captive audience for espousing your political or religious views or opinions for those of us who equally and freely decide not to listen to you.
While I have no problem with groups like CEF evangelizing in the public square by handing out tracks and inviting adults to allow their kids to attend their camps and programs, I do however have a big problem with them approaching little kids who are not of an age of majority to make their own decisions and by not getting parental permission first if that is what is happening even in some cases. And I would have the very same objection to any group, any religion, any sect or political group in doing the same.
And if one of the members of CEF or that of any other religious or political group approached one of my kids, telling them that if “your parents don’t allow you to attend”, then they are “evil” and “they love the darkness” they’d be tasting some good old playground dirt after I exercised my first amendment right to tell them to stop and take a long walk off a short pier and also of my right to protect my children if they continued the uninvited advances from complete strangers who attempt to usurp my parental rights and authority by slamming their faces head first into some play ground dirt.
I find it offensive that this group assumes that any and all of these kids innocently playing in play grounds are their fair game and of their assumption that just because a city like Portland (or any of the other cities this group targets) are by default, in their opinion “godless” and in need of “salvation” without considering whether or not any of these kids come from religious families or not. And what if some of these kids come from a Catholic or Lutheran or Jewish family and are being raised in the religion of their parents as they see fit and believe in and in not the fundamentalist evangelical sect that CEF espouses that includes the belief that even very little children are “sinners” and will burn in Hell unless they enroll in their program – to me that sounds a bit more like a cult than a religion - YMMV . Is it fair game for this group to approach these little kids uninvited and telling them they and their parents are going to Hell?
The issue is not whether exercising your freedom is "fair" or not. Go find a preliminary injunction on it, if you can. You can always find an educator, atheist, or Muslim to tell kid that they and their parents are not going to Hell and that pre-teen sexual experimentation is OK, eh?
But, in fact, without Christ and according to the Bible, the children are in danger, and so are Christ-rejecting parents.
All evangelists enter the scene without an invitation -- sort of like someone telling you your house is on fire, when it is. Rejection of the gospel is rooted either in idiocy or insanity, or both, and you can't argue with either.
How do you want this? straight up, or with a teaspoon of sugar? You may have all the objections you want, but you may not take away the right of religious speech to anyone, regardless of what you think is appropriate and what is not.
What's your basis for a life after physical death, after separation of your soul and spirit from your body?
And yes, I have read through many of Jefferson's collected private letters that express his personal outlook on liberty. He, of course, does not claim to be a Biblical Christian, nor even lean toward it.
I'm afraid I must tell you that it's you that made this personal, that maintain that I'm wrong, that I spew, that I denigrate, that I castigate, that I think I'm perfect, and that sounds very personal to me. And you drag in "Christian witness" with it. We'll see whether you decide to apologize or not.
THANK YOU! A voice of reason.
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